2003 on top of XP Pro

[Joe C]

I am currently using XP pro. If I purchase a version of
the new office suite that does not have Access and
Publisher, will it affect these programs? I want to keep
access and publisher in XP pro and buy word, excel, pwt
pt., and outlook in the new versions.

Thanks!

 

[Mike Williams [MVP]]

I am currently using XP pro. If I purchase a version of
the new office suite that does not have Access and
Publisher, will it affect these programs? I want to keep
access and publisher in XP pro and buy word, excel, pwt
pt., and outlook in the new versions.

It will affect them to the degree that certain common components e.g. data
access components, spell-checker etc will get upgraded.

--

Mike Williams - Office MVP
http://www.mvps.org/

Please respond in the same thread on this newsgroup. Make sure you
include details of your application and Windows versions, plus any
service pack updates.

Do not mail to me directly without invitation - you have a choice of
getting ignored or billed for my time. Most questions can be answered
by reading recent NG posts, checking the MVPS web FAQs or searching the
relevant Google archive e.g.
http://groups.google.com/groups?group=microsoft.public.word.spelling.grammar

 

[Chad Harris]

The emphatic message from the presenters at TechNet's work shops during the
launch has been that the default install of MOS 2003 is to *clean all
components* of old versions, set up files, including shortcuts, and
registry keys or entries.. The installer in Office 2003 has been improved.
That being the case, this would mean that old Acess and Publisher *would be
gone by default.* What was recommended in this situation, was to use the
Resource Kit's tool, the Custom Installation Wizard which will present you
with a list of old components with check boxes. You could then check Access
and Publisher to preserve these intact:
_______________________________________________________________________

http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/two/ch5/DepC03.htm

By using the Custom Installation Wizard, you can create a Windows Installer
transform (MST file) that specifies the default features installed by Setup
when the user clicks Upgrade or Typical Install. This MST file can be
created for any installation scenario, including yours, without altering the
original Windows Installer Package. You can also use the Office Removal
Wizard, which will allow you to control which files would be removed so you
could customize installation and removal in considerable detail if you
wanted. What you're wanting to do is easy. You can also change the button
labels and descriptive text on this page by setting the following
properties:

a.. COMPLETEINSTALLDESCRIPTION
b.. CUSTOMINSTALLDESCRIPTION
c.. CUSTOMTEXT
d.. MINIMUMINSTALLDESCRIPTION
e.. MINIMUMTEXT
f.. RUNFROMSOURCEINSTALLDESCRIPTION
g.. RUNFROMSOURCETEXT
h.. TYPICALINSTALLDESCRIPTION
i.. TYPICALTEXT
j.. UPGRADEINSTALLDESCRIPTION
k.. UPGRADETEXT
You might also want to see:

Customizing How Set Up Runs

http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/two/ch4/DepB03.htm

Chad Harris








_______________________________________________________________________

 

[Chad Harris]

These links might also be of help in downloading the Resource Kit and Using
it's tool the Custom Installation Wizard:

Custom Installation Wizard Downloading the Resource Kit:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/tools/BoxA03.htm

Office Resource Kit Toolbox:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/tools/default.htm

Customizing Office 2003:
http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/two/ch4/default.htm

Chad Harris







____________________________________________________________________________
_____

 

[Beth Melton]

This has been the case with all versions of Office. By default it the
installer will uninstall previous versions. All you have to do is
change the default installation path and you can retain previous
versions.

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Chad Harris]

Is it necessary to download the *Resource Kit* to get it's tool the
*Microsoft Customization Wizard*, to retain say Access and Publisher from a
previous version, or will MOS 2003 give you a set-up dialogue box screen
showing the old components and allow you to choose to retain them? In XP
from the CD in a simple installation you can choose an install type of
course, and then select the components you want from that version. If you
want further customization of course, you could use a tool from the Resource
Kit. But what about a common scenario that will take place in homes and
small businesses--someone wants to retain Access and Publisher from an older
version and gets less expensive Office Standard--or someone in the family
gets student edition? They want to use what Standard doesn't have.

Will *default setup* allow them to choose components like *Access and
Publisher* from the older edition? Can they do this by selecting custom in
the default setup dialogue box or do they *have to invoke the Resource kit?*

Thanks,

Chad Harris
_______________________________________________________________________

 

[Beth Melton]

Hi Chad,

In the past this was never an issue. If you installed say, Office 2000
Professional installed, and then installed Office XP Standard, the
choice to keep earlier versions was a product-to-product match and the
installation would not remove Access 2000.

However, since you brought this up and indicated this issue was "an
emphatic message from the presenters at TechNet's workshops" I am
currently in the process of finding out more information and will post
back when I know more.

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Chad Harris]

Thanks very much Beth. This came from the Tech Net presentations at the
office launch and they were adamant. I don't have Office 2003 yet to check
it's default install, to see if it puts up a default setup screen that will
list the components of older version/editions and it will probably be 2-3
weeks.

The Custom Installation Wizard Tool I linked will put up a screen with the
old components and allow you to put a check in the ones you want retained.
Of course you wouldn't be retaining two installations of Access say, but if
you didn't have it in your new version (say Office 2003 S&T and you wanted
to retain Access and Publisher from Office 2000 or XP Pro editions).
Another safe method would be to have the older version installed *first* and
if you couldn't install into a different partition or hard drive, install
into a different folder. to be safe and retain. My concern is that if the
default of 2003 does take away the old Access and Publisher, then they are
left with reinstalling it into a different folder. I'm not sure why I
always see the caveat to have the older component from the older version
installed *first* but often it is mentioned.

Chad Harris

____________________________________________________________________________
______

 

[CZ]

Will *default setup* allow them to choose components like *Access and
Publisher* from the older edition? Can they do this by selecting custom in
the default setup dialogue box or do they *have to invoke the Resource kit?*

Chad:

Per tests using Office 2k3 Student Edition:
If you choose Custom Install, you will eventually see a screen with
following choices:
Remove all previous versions
Keep all previous versions
Remove only the following apps (lists found/installed previous versions)

Also, there is a summary/review screen before any changes are made.

 

[Chad Harris]

Many thanks. This would make sense and this custom screen is what you would
hope would be there. And it means that you don't have to invoke or bother
downloading the Resource Kit and its tools as was implied at the launch to
simply keep a couple of prior components.

Chad Harris

______________________________________________________________________

 

[Bob Buckland ?:-\)]

Hi Chad,

Can you tell us what city/date you were at for the
Technet Presentation? The information may have
been presented inaccurately if they were discussing
end user installs rather than an Office deployment.

If you install an Office 2003 production edition
running the normal Setup program from the CD it
will remove all Office 2003 beta apps, as those can't
coexist with the Office 2003 production products.

Installing Office 2003 production editions as an
end user will not remove apps of older production
version Office apps, for which your Office 2003 CD
does not have a replacement. If you choose
'custom installation' you will have more control
over the upgrade process and can select specific
behaviors.

If you're deploying Office 2003 using the Custom
Installation Wizard available in the ORK.exe
download from the Office 2003 Resource Kit Toolbox
http://microsoft.com/office/ork/2003
you can choose to have it remove older Office apps,
even if you're not going to have a 2003 replacement.

For example, MS FrontPage 2003 is not included in
any Office 2003 Edition, but is available as a standalone
product. You might choose to remove an older
FrontPage as part of the Office 2003 installation.
You could also choose to have it leave an old version
of an Office app along with the new version. Some companies
have systems that may require/rely on a specific
version of an Office app to function.

The Custom Installation Wizard is generally used
by Administrators doing an Office deployment but
with Office 2003 can be used by end users.

The reason for installing oldest to newest is to
basically keep from having file mismatches from
common/shared files. These can often be resolved
by running a 'repair' of the newer apps if an older
app was installed last, but when you have a broken
app that may not be the first thing that comes to
mind

This article has additional information on running
multiple versions.
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=828956&FR=1
Office 2000, XP/2002 and 2003 default to installing
their unique files into different subfolders of
\program files\Microsoft\Office\


=========
Thanks very much Beth. This came from the Tech Net presentations at the
office launch and they were adamant. I don't have Office 2003 yet to check
it's default install, to see if it puts up a default setup screen that will
list the components of older version/editions and it will probably be 2-3
weeks.

The Custom Installation Wizard Tool I linked will put up a screen with the
old components and allow you to put a check in the ones you want retained.
Of course you wouldn't be retaining two installations of Access say, but if
you didn't have it in your new version (say Office 2003 S&T and you wanted
to retain Access and Publisher from Office 2000 or XP Pro editions).
Another safe method would be to have the older version installed *first* and
if you couldn't install into a different partition or hard drive, install
into a different folder. to be safe and retain. My concern is that if the
default of 2003 does take away the old Access and Publisher, then they are
left with reinstalling it into a different folder. I'm not sure why I
always see the caveat to have the older component from the older version
installed *first* but often it is mentioned.

Chad Harris >>

--
I hope this helps you,

Bob Buckland ?
MS Office System Products MVP

*Courtesy is not expensive and can pay big dividends*

The Office 2003 System parts explained
http://microsoft.com/uk/office/preview/system.asp

MS on 'Why Office System 2003'
http://microsoft.com/mscorp/execmail/2003/10-13productivity.asp

 

[Beth Melton]

Yes, if you select Custom Install then you will see the choices CZ
described.

What I'm currently trying to find out is if you do not select the
Custom Install and if you go with the default/typical will the
installation remove applications for which there is no replacement.

This is the only scenario I can think of that could have possibly
prompted the speaker at the TechNet presentation to emphasize the need
to use the Customization Wizard. I found a copy of the slides used for
the presentation and there are no details on what happens during an
upgrade so it is something they added on their own.
--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Chad Harris]

I appreciate *very much your sticking with this* and knocking my problem
that confused me out of the park, Bob. This was a very helpful
explanation. Everything at the launch was presented carefully and
accurately by someone who knows these installations and MS Software inside
out for years, and always does an excellent job. *The problem was
entirely mine, and I think it was in not appreciating *a "production
edition" *that would be purchased for a license price versus those available
for end user installs.* I want to understand both to the extent I can, but
now I see an important distinction that the end user installs apparently
make a custom install possible to retain the previous version/edition's
component like Access or Publisher--if it's not in the MOS2003 edition they
have.

I understand there are a number of platforms for deployment/installs that
don't have to be done on the desktop, or on a notebook, tablet, or PDA--
"enterprise installs", i.e.' Active Directory GP0--or production edition
environments, creating Administrative installtion points on network servers,
ect. Like these:

Installing Office 2003
http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/two/ch5/default.htm

Preparing to Install Office 2003
http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/two/ch3/default.htm

Deploying Office 2003 in a Terminal Services Environment
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...technol/office/office2003/deploy/o2k3dpts.asp

You're contrasting these, and I find the info for all these installs a
little overwhelming as I look at the resource kit. Your post is pretty
clear. But when you say:

If you install an Office 2003 production edition

running the normal Setup program from the CD it
will remove all Office 2003 beta apps, as those can't
coexist with the Office 2003 production products.

Installing Office 2003 production editions as an
end user will not remove apps of older production
version Office apps, for which your Office 2003 CD
does not have a replacement

Does this mean that a production edition would be *different software*
bought by an enterprise or business with responsibility for deploying it to
a number of machines--I think the licenses can apply to as small as 5
machines, but am not sure, or the same software that would behave
differently because one the concern for me was the blanket removal of all
old Office components by default.

http://www.microsoft.com/licensing/programs/

*What* makes it possible for installing Office 2003 production editions as
an end user to not remove apps of older production Office apps? Also
forgive me, but what defines a *production product*--that its intent is for
a production machine in an enterprise versus an end user?

Is the end user buying the same box with a *production edition* or do you
mean any versions like Professional or Small Business Edition?

Thanks very much for the help and the good post. Hope you'll followup on
this one.

Chad Harris











_______________________________________________________________

 

[CZ]

What I'm currently trying to find out is if you do not select the
Custom Install and if you go with the default/typical will the
installation remove applications for which there is no replacement.

Beth:

It does not remove them.

Tested via Win XP Pro computer which had Office 2k apps: Word, Excel, FPage,
Access
Inserted Office 2k3 Student Edition (does not have Access or FPage)

Text on the "Type of installation" screen:
Recommended Install
Upgrade "...and remove previous versions of Office from your computer"
(it is the default)
or choose another type:
Complete install
Minimal install
Typical install
Custom install

I selected Upgrade
Access 2k and FPage 2k were still functional after install

 

[Chad Harris]

Beth--

I think what's going on is that the Technet session on deployment I attended
was that the session was aimed at IT installations of all types. I'd like
to know the same. *What is it that defines what would make the difference?*
If you don't select custom install what will happen to any components of old
version/editions, and also is this any different in MOS2003 than in
installing Office XP?

Bob Buckland made a post this thread I am trying to understand fully, if you
can please take a look. Bob says:
__________________________________________________________________________

"If you install an Office 2003 production edition
running the normal Setup program from the CD it
will remove all Office 2003 beta apps, as those can't
coexist with the Office 2003 production products.

Installing Office 2003 production editions as an
end user will not remove apps of older production
version Office apps, for which your Office 2003 CD
does not have a replacement. If you choose
'custom installation' you will have more control
over the upgrade process and can select specific
behaviors."
________________________________________________________________

I need help understanding what makes *the install of a production edition.*
In other words, are we talking about the *same code* that comes on an out of
the box CD for MOS 2003, that becomes a production edition *because of the
variety of methods of installing* that are deployed like the possibilities
in the links below? I mean the same code but delivered with some kind of
install mechanism whether it's a wizard or a way of setting up the install
so GPO, Active Directory, networks get deployed in an enterprise environment
with a large number of machines to get the install done efficiently and in a
custom way the IT people decide is the best mix of Office components for
their environment?

Installing Office 2003
http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/two/ch5/default.htm

Preparing to Install Office 2003
http://www.microsoft.com/office/ork/2003/two/ch3/default.htm

Deploying Office 2003 in a Terminal Services Environment
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tr...technol/office/office2003/deploy/o2k3dpts.asp

*What* makes it possible for installing Office 2003 production editions as
an end user to not remove apps of older production Office apps? Also
forgive me, but what defines a *production product*--that its intent is for
a production machine in an enterprise with the addition of some special
install software available from the Resource kit or some other source versus
an end user edition that doesn't add the wizards or special installation
configurations?

Also if you have a link to slides used in the presentation, could you post
them?

Thanks much. Hope I've been clear.

Chad Harris

_______________________________________________________________

 

[Eric Lawrence [MSFT]]

I think it goes something like this:

Installing ANY Office2003 application will result in the removal of all
pre-release versions (beta) of all Office 2003 applications. (So, install
Publisher 2003 from the store, and Frontpage 2003 Beta will be removed).

Installing the Office2003 version of a given application will OFFER to
remove the prior version (e.g. Install Word 2003 and it will offer to remove
Word2002).

A previous version of an Office applications will NOT be uninstalled if
you're not installing the 2003 version of that specific program (E.g.
Installing Word 2003 will not remove FrontPage 2002).

Thanks,

Eric Lawrence
Program Manager
Assistance and Worldwide Services

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no rights.

 

[Beth Melton]

I've been searching for some 'sound reasoning' for why the presenter
would convey misinformation in their presentation. I'd say the
scenario Eric and Bob describe is what the presenter encountered and
led them to believe the same would happen to previous versions and
applications.

I received input on this issue from several individuals and each have
confirmed their personal experience installing Office 2003 was much
like my own: in a Custom Install you would be presented with a list of
applications to keep and applications for which there is not a product
match would not be removed regardless of the version. (I have Office
95 - Office 2003 installed and several other misc applications such as
FrontPage)

Also Chad, this KB article may help answer your question and help to
confirm everyone else's findings:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=827471

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

I think it goes something like this:

Installing ANY Office2003 application will result in the removal of all
pre-release versions (beta) of all Office 2003 applications. (So, install
Publisher 2003 from the store, and Frontpage 2003 Beta will be removed).

Installing the Office2003 version of a given application will OFFER to
remove the prior version (e.g. Install Word 2003 and it will offer to remove
Word2002).

A previous version of an Office applications will NOT be uninstalled if
you're not installing the 2003 version of that specific program (E.g.
Installing Word 2003 will not remove FrontPage 2002).

Thanks,

Eric Lawrence
Program Manager
Assistance and Worldwide Services

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and confers no

rights.

 

[Beth Melton]

Thanks for the confirmation CZ.

As I mentioned in another post, if a TechNet presenter was as emphatic
as Chad indicates then they must have encountered something unexpected
during the installation. I can't see that type of presenter making
such a claim without some grounds - hence my upgrade speculation.

BUT I'd have to say the scenario Bob and Eric describe is what led to
their confusion, and I can see where this conclusion could be drawn if
you only had beta apps installed.

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Chad Harris]

Beth--

I Appreciate your time, KB, (along with Bob's) and *clarification.*
Putting the KB and CZ's helpful confirmation of the KB in his latest post
together, it appears that if you have an application(s) for which there is
no replacement which is far and away the most common scenario where this
concern will come up, that it does not by default remove it, which would be
good news to anyone who wants to preserve them and their settings. It's
also helpful to know that they would show up if someone opted for a custom
"set up box" because that would be safety valve if someone *didn't know*
they would be "OK with their older apps" in this respect, they could opt.
for a custom install--see their old apps and know they were going to be
preserved.

I also was trying to reconcile the terminology in Bob's post and would
really like to find out what Bob meant if Bob or anyone could help when he
used the term *production editions*, because otherwise what Bob has said
comports with the KB and CZ's clarification.

Also Bob points out "Some companies have systems that may require/rely on a
specific version of an Office app to function which must mean they have
tailored a system to their needs already in a type of custom install.
Except for that one term *for me* in case it means some special kind of
Office edition or install, Bob's post also adds a lot to clear this up, and
I appreciate the explanation of the oldest to newest rationale.

I understand why the Beta apps must be removed, because I've read that they
share .dlls in common with the final version, and cannot co-exist for that
reason.

Thanks very much,

Chad Harris



____________________________________________________________________

 

[Chad Harris]

This helps Eric--very clear. Also taken with the KB's and CZ's, Beth's,
Bob's very helpful clarifications. The only term I'm hung up on is Bob
Buckland's use of *"production version"* when he says

"Installing Office 2003 production editions as an end user will not remove
apps of older production version Office apps, for which your Office 2003
CDdoes not have a replacement."

The statement is clear and consistent with yours Beth's and KB's--I'm just
trying to understand if
"production version" connotes anything special.

Thanks very much for the help,

Chad Harris



________________________________________________________________________