2008 Rookie Questions

[Norm]

I few minutes ago I installed Office 2008 on one of our Macs. I've been
on, and retained, Office v. X.

Questions:

1. I thought I read that if I had a prior version of Office on my Mac
that it would "install" any templates and default style.
Does not seem to be the case. My few styles are basic so if difficult
I'll just recreate but is there an easy way to bring over those
templates?

2. I assume that setting the default style is easier than in Office v.
X. I remember that it took me a long time and the help of this group.
Much easier way back when on Word 5.1a.

3. For the "light" user is there any recommended intro to Office 2008?

Thank you.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

When you first-run Office Word 2008, it should find your v.X Normal template
and import the styles from it.

If that does not happen:

1) Go to Format>Style>Organiser (Toolbox must be closed or you will not see
the Organiser option)

2) Close the active document (the left column!) and then

3) On that side Open your old v.X Normal template.

4) Select all the styles and

5) Click the arrow to copy them to the right side, which is your new
Normal.dotm from Word 2008.

Setting the default Normal style is exactly the same on Word 2008 as it is
in Word v.X.

However: There is an added consideration: It is best NOT to customise the
Normal style in the XML versions of Word. That's because there is an extra
"layer" of things hanging off it in the XML versions ‹ the "Themes" and the
"Table Styles" all inherit their settings from Normal style.

For the Themes to work properly, Normal style should be "empty". That way,
when you switch themes, the themes can re-populate the Normal style. I
never use Themes in Word documents, and I have never found a requirement
that would cause me to recommend that anyone else does, either. They simply
seem to add another layer of unexplained complexity and nasty surprises.

For the "Light" user, the first primer is still "Make sure you have UPDATED
Microsoft Office, all the way to 12.1.7." Office 2008 won't run at all on
modern operating systems until both the OS and Office have been updated.

The second primer is :Make sure you allow the Help System to go online."
The Help wasn't ready when they made the CD, so there is almost no content
in the default help file. New topics are being added daily: allow the Help
to go online so you see them.

The third primer is: "Many things won't work, won't work properly, or will
suffer unexplained changes, if you save in the old .doc format. The old
format is not strong enough to store all of the new capabilities of the new
versions of Word. Always work in and save your originals in .docx. If
anyone complains they can't open your documents, tell them to go and get the
free converter from Microsoft (unless they are a high-paying customer who
has recently paid their bill: in that case, you can send them a .doc
version, but keep the original in .docx...)

And the fourth primer is "Read Clive's Bend Word to Your Will"

Cheers

I few minutes ago I installed Office 2008 on one of our Macs. I've been
on, and retained, Office v. X.

Questions:

1. I thought I read that if I had a prior version of Office on my Mac
that it would "install" any templates and default style.
Does not seem to be the case. My few styles are basic so if difficult
I'll just recreate but is there an easy way to bring over those
templates?

2. I assume that setting the default style is easier than in Office v.
X. I remember that it took me a long time and the help of this group.
Much easier way back when on Word 5.1a.

3. For the "light" user is there any recommended intro to Office 2008?

Thank you.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hi Norm:

When you first-run Office Word 2008, it should find your v.X Normal template
and import the styles from it.

Hmmm.... you are saying styles not templates. I'll have to see how many
I defined.

I checked when I opened Format/Styles and selected User Defined and
there are none.

Not sure what that means. I know for specific "projects/docs" I defined
some files but I was interested much interested in carrying over a
couple of letterhead templates but those should be easy to duplicate.

Given what you said about not changing the Default Normal style, I will
leave all as is.

If that does not happen:
snip


For the Themes to work properly, Normal style should be "empty". That way,
when you switch themes, the themes can re-populate the Normal style. I
never use Themes in Word documents, and I have never found a requirement
that would cause me to recommend that anyone else does, either. They simply
seem to add another layer of unexplained complexity and nasty surprises.

From my "10 minutes"...... and I haven't even started using 2008 and I
was looking for a way to deselect showing of the themes toolbar or
whatever it is called.

For the "Light" user, the first primer is still "Make sure you have UPDATED
Microsoft Office, all the way to 12.1.7." Office 2008 won't run at all on
modern operating systems until both the OS and Office have been updated.

MS Word (assume all Office 2008) is at: 12.1.7
OS X: 10.5.7

The second primer is :Make sure you allow the Help System to go online."
The Help wasn't ready when they made the CD, so there is almost no content
in the default help file. New topics are being added daily: allow the Help
to go online so you see them.

Thanks. I was trying to find Default or Normal Style default to change
it and found nothing. But now I won't even look.


And I'll use .docx

And the fourth primer is "Read Clive's Bend Word to Your Will"

Not knowing of that or Clive, I'm not sure if that is a recommendation
or a joke? Sorry, it flew right over.

Thanks for the help

 

[Clive Huggan]

Not knowing of that or Clive, I'm not sure if that is a recommendation
or a joke? Sorry, it flew right over.

Don't worry, Norm, we're both Aussies -- possessed with a diet too high in
irony content...

But in this case my learned colleague was being straightforward; it's a
reference to "Bend Word to Your Will", a compilation of notes on the way I
use Word for the Mac, available as a free download from the Word MVPs'
website (http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). It reflects
many of the practices recommended by the regulars here, although there is
endless creative variation when you get down to the subject and ultimately
it's my "take" on the product that we love and hate.

"Bend Word to Your Will" is designed to be used electronically and most
subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. It's important to
read the front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can
select some Word settings that will allow you to use the document
effectively. Don't be put off by the length -- it's a dictionary, not a
novel!

It's written for Word 2004 and earlier. It doesn't cover Word 2008 because I
don't use it (I need macros, and they won't be restored until Word Mac Next
edition). So some of the information there may not apply, or may be
accessible through a different interface.

Cheers,

Clive
======

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Hmmm.... you are saying styles not templates. I'll have to see how many
I defined.

Your "Templates" do not need moving or importing, you can simply "use" them
with Word 2008. Although you may care to upgrade them to .dotx so they can
store the latest widgets in them.

To do so, open each one and save it as "Word Template (.dotx)"

I checked when I opened Format/Styles and selected User Defined and
there are none.

That simply means they have not been USED in THAT document. If you go into
Format>Styles... They should be there, or open the Toolbox and they'll show
up in the "Styles" section.

Note that you need to set the "List" control at the bottom of the Styles
section to "All styles" to see them, and that setting affects what you see
in Format>Styles also, and is stored document by document.

Given what you said about not changing the Default Normal style, I will
leave all as is.

I wouldn't! Customise the life out of it. But if you want Themes to
behave, use Body Text style instead of Normal, customise Body Text, and
leave Normal unchanged.

From my "10 minutes"...... and I haven't even started using 2008 and I
was looking for a way to deselect showing of the themes toolbar or
whatever it is called.

It's called "The Gallery". It's an infernal waste of screen real-estate, an
you can't get rid of it. Click once on one of the label squares and it will
collapse to be slightly less irritating. Not much...

Thanks. I was trying to find Default or Normal Style default to change
it and found nothing. But now I won't even look.

Allow the Help to go online, then each time you use it, if it does not have
a topic it will check with the web server and upload it if it's there. The
Help is now quite good if you let it go online.

Not knowing of that or Clive, I'm not sure if that is a recommendation
or a joke? Sorry, it flew right over.

Sorry: I usually spell it all out, but I was sure Clive himself would be
along any minute to correct my grammar. It's at:
http://word.mvps.org/mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html

Cheers

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Not knowing of that or Clive, I'm not sure if that is a recommendation
or a joke? Sorry, it flew right over.

Don't worry, Norm, we're both Aussies -- possessed with a diet too high in
irony content...[/QUOTE]

Like that type of humor. But in that instance I was slow on the
uptake re: names.

But in this case my learned colleague was being straightforward; it's a
reference to "Bend Word to Your Will", a compilation of notes on the way I
use Word for the Mac, available as a free download from the Word MVPs'
website (http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). It reflects
many of the practices recommended by the regulars here, although there is
endless creative variation when you get down to the subject and ultimately
it's my "take" on the product that we love and hate.

Thanks for getting me up to speed..... well sort of and for the
link.

I think I'm at the very bottom of the skill level and need level of
those that gain from using MS Word. But it helps in the sharing with
others.
Maybe this time around with both Office 2008 and iWork 09 on my computer
I will spend some time comparing if for our use.
My other caveat is that whatever my wife uses I'll use. I'm on her tech
support speed dial.

"Bend Word to Your Will" is designed to be used electronically and most
subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. It's important to
read the front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can
select some Word settings that will allow you to use the document
effectively. Don't be put off by the length -- it's a dictionary, not a
novel!

Got it.

It's written for Word 2004 and earlier. It doesn't cover Word 2008 because I
don't use it (I need macros, and they won't be restored until Word Mac Next
edition). So some of the information there may not apply, or may be
accessible through a different interface.

Understand. And I wouldn't know a Macro if I saw one on Main Street. At
least I don't think I would. As I said long ago.... Word 5.1a was just
right for my basic needs and if I don't know a Macro that is the proof.



Thanks.


PS This is a total tangent but..... given how helpful this group is....
I have a news reader question and I'm sure the "power users " will laugh.

I use MT-NewsWatcher and have it set to not post with my "real" address.
I like to save my posts and responses in my email client (now Mail, just
switched from long time on Eudora).
And I would like but don't get the info on which newsgroups for the post
and responses.
When I post, I copy to my address but since it is a fake address it
gives an error after posting and I then have to change my "mail from" to
my saved real address for it to mail my copy. Not very efficient.

So, is there a way to:
1. show the newsgroup info and
2. reduce my steps in posting.

As I said, this is poor form asking a very tangent question that I have
lived with for many years. Thanks either way.

 

[Norm]

Thanks John. See inline.

Hi Norm:

Your "Templates" do not need moving or importing, you can simply "use" them
with Word 2008. Although you may care to upgrade them to .dotx so they can
store the latest widgets in them.

To do so, open each one and save it as "Word Template (.dotx)"

Will I need to force it to save in proper location for it to be in My
Templates in Word 2008?

That simply means they have not been USED in THAT document. If you go into
Format>Styles... They should be there, or open the Toolbox and they'll show
up in the "Styles" section.

Note that you need to set the "List" control at the bottom of the Styles
section to "All styles" to see them, and that setting affects what you see
in Format>Styles also, and is stored document by document.


I wouldn't! Customise the life out of it. But if you want Themes to
behave, use Body Text style instead of Normal, customise Body Text, and
leave Normal unchanged.

So you customize "Normal" and don't use Themes?

Does Normal work the same in 2008 as v. X? As I said I've just, really
just, started to use 2008 but I had a case where I pasted from a v. X
doc and then tried to just change it to 2008's Normal (Cambria font I
believe) and it didn't change nor come back with a dialog. Just curious
and I'm probably not testing it correctly.

It's called "The Gallery". It's an infernal waste of screen real-estate, an
you can't get rid of it. Click once on one of the label squares and it will
collapse to be slightly less irritating. Not much..

Thank you for saving me time. I would have kept searching for a way to
get rid of it
..

Sorry: I usually spell it all out, but I was sure Clive himself would be
along any minute to correct my grammar. It's at:
http://word.mvps.org/mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html

He did.

Now I have a link from both of you. Appreciate.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Maybe this time around with both Office 2008 and iWork 09 on my computer
I will spend some time comparing if for our use.
My other caveat is that whatever my wife uses I'll use.

Norm, seeing you and presumably your wife are going to be on a new learning
curve Word X => Word 2008, think seriously of Pages '09. It gets better and
better with every release, and that will probably continue for the
foreseeable future. For someone who isn't forced to use Word to meet
corporate requirements or isn't developing long and complex documents (both
factors in my case, and factors that induce me to stay in Word 2004 too),
there is far less aggro in Pages. My wife uses it almost all the time and
leads a fairly calm existence! ;-)

And please don't mention Word 5.1a here -- it's too upsetting. :-\

<Deep nostalgic sigh>

Clive
======

 

[Norm]

there is far less aggro in Pages. My wife uses it almost all the time and
leads a fairly calm existence! ;-)

Ahhh...... my wife's goal.

She laughing says to watch her Mac go by my office window when the
computer existence is less than calm.

And please don't mention Word 5.1a here -- it's too upsetting. :-\

<Deep nostalgic sigh>

<assume you can here the same from here>

Thanks, "we" will check out Pages 09. That means me and my wife's tech
support group (me, again).

PS I still (hopefully never "totally retired") have a few exchanges
where I probably need/want to exchange with PC/MS users. But I gather I
can accomplish this from Pages 09.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Ahhh...... my wife's goal.

She laughing says to watch her Mac go by my office window when the
computer existence is less than calm.


<assume you can here the same from here>

Thanks, "we" will check out Pages 09. That means me and my wife's tech
support group (me, again).

PS I still (hopefully never "totally retired") have a few exchanges
where I probably need/want to exchange with PC/MS users. But I gather I
can accomplish this from Pages 09.

In general, yes -- although, as with open source Office-like applications
(e.g., Neo Office, Open Office), some things -- from vague memory an example
would be complex table formatting -- are not translated well. But for your
uses that would appear not to be a huge problem.

Pages can read .doc and .docx files, and save to those formats.

Clive
=====

 

[Norm]

Pages can read .doc and .docx files, and save to those formats.

Thanks again for all this help. I appreciate........ as does my wife but
she doesn't know it yet.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Will I need to force it to save in proper location for it to be in My
Templates in Word 2008?

Yes, but Word should offer to do that for you automatically. When you
switch the Save dialog to "Word Template", Word should switch the
destination folder to the folder indicated in Word>Preferences>File
Locations...

However, a change for Word 2008 is that you can save and use templates from
anywhere: they restored the correct behaviour that we lost due to a mistake
a few versions ago.

So you customize "Normal" and don't use Themes?

Personally, I do all three: I customise Normal, I use Body Text instead of
Normal, and I don't use Themes.

In Word, various things "inherit" their characteristics in "inverted
tree-shaped" hierarchies. Styles are one of the most visible things.
Normal is Style 0, right at the root of the hierarchy. Anything you do to
Normal will show up in every other style in the document.

If you follow my learned colleague Clive's suggestions in detail, you will
find a section in there that recommends breaking the chain of inheritance at
various places in the style hierarchy, and tells you how to do that. But
until you do, as a rule of thumb, the font and spacing you set in Normal
will appear "everywhere"

Does Normal work the same in 2008 as v. X?

Yes, it does. It has more widgets in it, and there is a second global
template that is also in play, but "Yes" is the answer.

As I said I've just, really
just, started to use 2008 but I had a case where I pasted from a v. X
doc and then tried to just change it to 2008's Normal (Cambria font I
believe) and it didn't change nor come back with a dialog. Just curious
and I'm probably not testing it correctly.

Let's understand "Properties". A "Style" is a "Collection" of formatting
"Properties". In Word 2008, the only difference between a style and any
other kind of formatting is that a style has a human-readable name.

But all formatting in Word is a style, whether you can read the name or not.

Now: This style is stored at the end of the document, beneath the last
paragraph mark in the file. All that appears in the text is a label to say
which style is in use.

If you paste from one document to another and the styles are different, Word
has to resolve the difference. The way it does this, is one of the reasons
Word is really difficult to learn!

What *should* happen, is that if you paste, Word simply adopts the
formatting of the destination document and applies its styles to the
incoming text. That's what you almost always want. And that's what almost
never happens!

What frequently happens is that Word creates a new style for the incoming
text in the destination document, and uses that to keep the formatting
unchanged.

The "cure" would be to select the pasted text and hit Command + option + q,
and then Ctrl + Spacebar. This resets the formatting of the selected text
back to the formatting of the applied style as it exists in the destination
document.

Cheers

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hi Norm:


snip


What *should* happen, is that if you paste, Word simply adopts the
formatting of the destination document and applies its styles to the
incoming text. That's what you almost always want. And that's what almost
never happens!

John:

Thanks very much for these explanations.

I think I now get some of the mystery of MS styles.

Appreciate the help.

Norm

 

[Clive Huggan]

On 31/5/09 11:11 AM, in article C648166C.1F451%[email protected], "John

[In "Bend Word to Your Will"] you will
find a section in there that recommends breaking the chain of inheritance at
various places in the style hierarchy, and tells you how to do that.

Um, yes, I'd better check that: for heading styles it's under the heading
"The minimum you need to know about styles" on pages 96-97 and for other
styles it's "Appendix B: Specifications for some of my styles ‹ especially
to reduce the chances of changed appearance on other computers" starting on
page 172 -- especially the "Based on" column in the table.

Essentially: Heading 1 is based on "No style" and subsequent headings
cascade down from Heading 1. I base "bt" (my body text style, so called
because it's easy to apply it via keyboard shortcut Command-Shift-s => bt =>
[Return key] -- see page of "Bend Word to Your Will") on "No style" and all
permutations of body text, such as bulleted sub-paragraphs, indented quotes
etc etc are cascaded down from "bt". Style bt's main specs are 10.5 point
Arial at 13-point line spacing (i.e., a bit more open than "single" -- much
easier on the eyes).

You'll notice none of these styles are based on Normal style, as discussed
earlier...

Clive
=====

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Clive:

Yeah, we should probably add an explanation somewhere that if you customise
Normal style, or if you break the chain of inheritance from it, you can
disable the Document Themes.

Mind you, unless they tell us what Document Themes are useful for, and how
to create them, that may not be a bad thing

Cheers

On 31/5/09 11:11 AM, in article C648166C.1F451%[email protected], "John

[In "Bend Word to Your Will"] you will
find a section in there that recommends breaking the chain of inheritance at
various places in the style hierarchy, and tells you how to do that.

Um, yes, I'd better check that: for heading styles it's under the heading
"The minimum you need to know about styles" on pages 96-97 and for other
styles it's "Appendix B: Specifications for some of my styles ‹ especially
to reduce the chances of changed appearance on other computers" starting on
page 172 -- especially the "Based on" column in the table.

Essentially: Heading 1 is based on "No style" and subsequent headings
cascade down from Heading 1. I base "bt" (my body text style, so called
because it's easy to apply it via keyboard shortcut Command-Shift-s => bt =>
[Return key] -- see page of "Bend Word to Your Will") on "No style" and all
permutations of body text, such as bulleted sub-paragraphs, indented quotes
etc etc are cascaded down from "bt". Style bt's main specs are 10.5 point
Arial at 13-point line spacing (i.e., a bit more open than "single" -- much
easier on the eyes).

You'll notice none of these styles are based on Normal style, as discussed
earlier...

Clive
=====

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[CyberTaz]

Hey John;

<snip>

When you first-run Office Word 2008, it should find your v.X Normal template
and import the styles from it.

<snip>

Isn't that dependent on whether you *upgrade* to a new version as opposed to
a *full installation* of it? I thought that if you install as a separate
package that Office simply ignored your prior version, its references & any
templates including the pre-existing Normal.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[John McGhie]

Whereas I thought the opposite...

I guess we should ask. Having only one functioning computer currently, I am
a little reticent to start messing with it

Cheers

Hey John;

<snip>

<snip>

Isn't that dependent on whether you *upgrade* to a new version as opposed to
a *full installation* of it? I thought that if you install as a separate
package that Office simply ignored your prior version, its references & any
templates including the pre-existing Normal.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]