A Modest Proposal

[mocha99]

Hi all,

I have been using Word 2007 for a few months now. It's a very versatile
product, but I think its functionalities are very much influenced by the
needs and requirements of business/law/corporate work environments.

What about education/academic environments? I am referring to
undergraduates/graduates/scholars who need to have a flexible and
powerful tool to make citations, quotations with links to the
quoted/cited document etc. What I am suggesting is that MS look into
the requirements of university students and scholars and create or add
functions that help them do what they do when they write a paper, a
study etc.

Is a "Word 200x Scholar" foreseeable in the future? Wouldn't this open a
new market for Word?

Thanks

 

[Terry Farrell]

Currently, Students, Teachers and Academics get a massive Educational
discount. Somehow I foresee in this new age of recession that a special
academic version would require an overhead that would be passed on. Word
already has many tools for the standards required by educational
institutions; styles, citations, quotations, footnotes, endnotes, etc are
already included. What more are you looking for?

 

[macropod]

Hi mocha99,

Have you looked under References|Citations & Bibliography (Word 2007)?

 

[JoAnn Paules]

Where do you stop?

What about those in the medical fields? Legal, accounting, engineering, to
name a few, also have their own needs. And let's not forget the senior
citizen. Even if they did do a "scholar" version - which school should they
use as a reference?

Everyone does their own thing with Word. There are add-ins available that
will accomplish just about anything you need. There's only so much that one
company can do. The tools you ask about are basically there; you just need
to learn how to use them. And some of the tasks need to be done manually -
you'll never learn how to do it if you depend on a computer to do
everything.

 

[Yves Dhondt]

Your question about "which school should they use as a reference" is
actually a very interesting one.

In my opinion, Word isn't the problem, it's the publishers / schools /
associations who are.

Word provides a set of generic tools which can be perfectly used to design
your own document template with specific page sizes, margins,
(citation/bibliography) styles, ... Unfortunately, the number of publishers
/ schools / associations who are willing to invest a little time in creating
a template following their guidelines is almost non-existent. And it's not
just for Word, they don't provide templates for LaTeX, OpenOffice or any
other text processing package either. In the rare case some template is
provided, it is often made by a 'contributor / student / member' rather than
the publisher / school / association. Some good soul who wanted to help
others avoid the mess (s)he ended up in.

I find it amazing how publishers / schools / associations can seem to get
away with such laziness and arrogance towards their 'contributors / students
/ members'.

Yves

Where do you stop?

What about those in the medical fields? Legal, accounting, engineering, to
name a few, also have their own needs. And let's not forget the senior
citizen. Even if they did do a "scholar" version - which school should
they use as a reference?

Everyone does their own thing with Word. There are add-ins available that
will accomplish just about anything you need. There's only so much that
one company can do. The tools you ask about are basically there; you just
need to learn how to use them. And some of the tasks need to be done
manually - you'll never learn how to do it if you depend on a computer to
do everything.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"

Hi all,

I have been using Word 2007 for a few months now. It's a very versatile
product, but I think its functionalities are very much influenced by the
needs and requirements of business/law/corporate work environments.

What about education/academic environments? I am referring to
undergraduates/graduates/scholars who need to have a flexible and
powerful tool to make citations, quotations with links to the
quoted/cited document etc. What I am suggesting is that MS look into the
requirements of university students and scholars and create or add
functions that help them do what they do when they write a paper, a study
etc.

Is a "Word 200x Scholar" foreseeable in the future? Wouldn't this open a
new market for Word?

Thanks

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

OTOH, I spent *months* advising a doctoral candidate in Canada who *had*
started with a provided template (not sure it was provided by the grad
school, though). Unfortunately, it was not very well designed, and in the
end we pretty much tore it up and started from scratch. Luckily, he took the
prudent approach of testing and getting squared away when he was in the very
early stages of the dissertation (taking each bit one step at a time), so it
wasn't one of these "Help! My dissertation is due tomorrow and I can't get
the TOC to work!" situations.

I still hear from the guy from time to time, and he credited me in his
Acknowledgments. <g>

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Your question about "which school should they use as a reference" is
actually a very interesting one.

In my opinion, Word isn't the problem, it's the publishers / schools /
associations who are.

Word provides a set of generic tools which can be perfectly used to design
your own document template with specific page sizes, margins,
(citation/bibliography) styles, ... Unfortunately, the number of
publishers / schools / associations who are willing to invest a little
time in creating a template following their guidelines is almost
non-existent. And it's not just for Word, they don't provide templates for
LaTeX, OpenOffice or any other text processing package either. In the rare
case some template is provided, it is often made by a 'contributor /
student / member' rather than the publisher / school / association. Some
good soul who wanted to help others avoid the mess (s)he ended up in.

I find it amazing how publishers / schools / associations can seem to get
away with such laziness and arrogance towards their 'contributors /
students / members'.

Yves

Where do you stop?

What about those in the medical fields? Legal, accounting, engineering,
to name a few, also have their own needs. And let's not forget the senior
citizen. Even if they did do a "scholar" version - which school should
they use as a reference?

Everyone does their own thing with Word. There are add-ins available that
will accomplish just about anything you need. There's only so much that
one company can do. The tools you ask about are basically there; you just
need to learn how to use them. And some of the tasks need to be done
manually - you'll never learn how to do it if you depend on a computer to
do everything.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"

Hi all,

I have been using Word 2007 for a few months now. It's a very versatile
product, but I think its functionalities are very much influenced by the
needs and requirements of business/law/corporate work environments.

What about education/academic environments? I am referring to
undergraduates/graduates/scholars who need to have a flexible and
powerful tool to make citations, quotations with links to the
quoted/cited document etc. What I am suggesting is that MS look into
the requirements of university students and scholars and create or add
functions that help them do what they do when they write a paper, a
study etc.

Is a "Word 200x Scholar" foreseeable in the future? Wouldn't this open a
new market for Word?

Thanks

 

[Terry Farrell]

Or they understand little about document structure and readability, thus
creating a ridiculous set of requirements.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

Your question about "which school should they use as a reference" is
actually a very interesting one.

In my opinion, Word isn't the problem, it's the publishers / schools /
associations who are.

Word provides a set of generic tools which can be perfectly used to design
your own document template with specific page sizes, margins,
(citation/bibliography) styles, ... Unfortunately, the number of
publishers / schools / associations who are willing to invest a little
time in creating a template following their guidelines is almost
non-existent. And it's not just for Word, they don't provide templates for
LaTeX, OpenOffice or any other text processing package either. In the rare
case some template is provided, it is often made by a 'contributor /
student / member' rather than the publisher / school / association. Some
good soul who wanted to help others avoid the mess (s)he ended up in.

I find it amazing how publishers / schools / associations can seem to get
away with such laziness and arrogance towards their 'contributors /
students / members'.

Yves

Where do you stop?

What about those in the medical fields? Legal, accounting, engineering,
to name a few, also have their own needs. And let's not forget the senior
citizen. Even if they did do a "scholar" version - which school should
they use as a reference?

Everyone does their own thing with Word. There are add-ins available that
will accomplish just about anything you need. There's only so much that
one company can do. The tools you ask about are basically there; you just
need to learn how to use them. And some of the tasks need to be done
manually - you'll never learn how to do it if you depend on a computer to
do everything.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"

Hi all,

I have been using Word 2007 for a few months now. It's a very versatile
product, but I think its functionalities are very much influenced by the
needs and requirements of business/law/corporate work environments.

What about education/academic environments? I am referring to
undergraduates/graduates/scholars who need to have a flexible and
powerful tool to make citations, quotations with links to the
quoted/cited document etc. What I am suggesting is that MS look into
the requirements of university students and scholars and create or add
functions that help them do what they do when they write a paper, a
study etc.

Is a "Word 200x Scholar" foreseeable in the future? Wouldn't this open a
new market for Word?

Thanks

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

I would be satisfied if the graduate departments of universities would
become educated about what is practically feasible with Word and not create
unnecessary obstacles by imposing standards developed for typewriters. This
is true of courts as well. I've seen students and lawyers hamstrung by
requirements such as indents defined in terms of spaces, vertical
positioning in terms of lines, line spacing required to be "double" without
specifying font size, etc.

I consulted on a court case where one side was accusing the other of
overstuffing a brief because the lawyers used 24-pt Exactly spacing instead
of "double" spacing for 12-pt TNR. I pointed out that "double" spacing could
vary widely from font to font (font size range but not font was specified by
the court). It would have made much more sense to impose a word count
limitation instead of specifying the number of pages and the line spacing.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Or they understand little about document structure and readability, thus
creating a ridiculous set of requirements.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

Your question about "which school should they use as a reference" is
actually a very interesting one.

In my opinion, Word isn't the problem, it's the publishers / schools /
associations who are.

Word provides a set of generic tools which can be perfectly used to
design your own document template with specific page sizes, margins,
(citation/bibliography) styles, ... Unfortunately, the number of
publishers / schools / associations who are willing to invest a little
time in creating a template following their guidelines is almost
non-existent. And it's not just for Word, they don't provide templates
for LaTeX, OpenOffice or any other text processing package either. In the
rare case some template is provided, it is often made by a 'contributor /
student / member' rather than the publisher / school / association. Some
good soul who wanted to help others avoid the mess (s)he ended up in.

I find it amazing how publishers / schools / associations can seem to get
away with such laziness and arrogance towards their 'contributors /
students / members'.

Yves

Where do you stop?

What about those in the medical fields? Legal, accounting, engineering,
to name a few, also have their own needs. And let's not forget the
senior citizen. Even if they did do a "scholar" version - which school
should they use as a reference?

Everyone does their own thing with Word. There are add-ins available
that will accomplish just about anything you need. There's only so much
that one company can do. The tools you ask about are basically there;
you just need to learn how to use them. And some of the tasks need to be
done manually - you'll never learn how to do it if you depend on a
computer to do everything.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



Hi all,

I have been using Word 2007 for a few months now. It's a very versatile
product, but I think its functionalities are very much influenced by
the needs and requirements of business/law/corporate work environments.

What about education/academic environments? I am referring to
undergraduates/graduates/scholars who need to have a flexible and
powerful tool to make citations, quotations with links to the
quoted/cited document etc. What I am suggesting is that MS look into
the requirements of university students and scholars and create or add
functions that help them do what they do when they write a paper, a
study etc.

Is a "Word 200x Scholar" foreseeable in the future? Wouldn't this open
a new market for Word?

Thanks

 

[Terry Farrell]

All true. Add the 'exact number of lines per page' requirement with line
numbering on the right making it all mind-bogglingly distracting to the user
trying to create a meaningful content.

Terry

I would be satisfied if the graduate departments of universities would
become educated about what is practically feasible with Word and not
create unnecessary obstacles by imposing standards developed for
typewriters. This is true of courts as well. I've seen students and
lawyers hamstrung by requirements such as indents defined in terms of
spaces, vertical positioning in terms of lines, line spacing required to
be "double" without specifying font size, etc.

I consulted on a court case where one side was accusing the other of
overstuffing a brief because the lawyers used 24-pt Exactly spacing
instead of "double" spacing for 12-pt TNR. I pointed out that "double"
spacing could vary widely from font to font (font size range but not font
was specified by the court). It would have made much more sense to impose
a word count limitation instead of specifying the number of pages and the
line spacing.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Or they understand little about document structure and readability, thus
creating a ridiculous set of requirements.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

Your question about "which school should they use as a reference" is
actually a very interesting one.

In my opinion, Word isn't the problem, it's the publishers / schools /
associations who are.

Word provides a set of generic tools which can be perfectly used to
design your own document template with specific page sizes, margins,
(citation/bibliography) styles, ... Unfortunately, the number of
publishers / schools / associations who are willing to invest a little
time in creating a template following their guidelines is almost
non-existent. And it's not just for Word, they don't provide templates
for LaTeX, OpenOffice or any other text processing package either. In
the rare case some template is provided, it is often made by a
'contributor / student / member' rather than the publisher / school /
association. Some good soul who wanted to help others avoid the mess
(s)he ended up in.

I find it amazing how publishers / schools / associations can seem to
get away with such laziness and arrogance towards their 'contributors /
students / members'.

Yves


Where do you stop?

What about those in the medical fields? Legal, accounting, engineering,
to name a few, also have their own needs. And let's not forget the
senior citizen. Even if they did do a "scholar" version - which school
should they use as a reference?

Everyone does their own thing with Word. There are add-ins available
that will accomplish just about anything you need. There's only so much
that one company can do. The tools you ask about are basically there;
you just need to learn how to use them. And some of the tasks need to
be done manually - you'll never learn how to do it if you depend on a
computer to do everything.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



Hi all,

I have been using Word 2007 for a few months now. It's a very
versatile product, but I think its functionalities are very much
influenced by the needs and requirements of business/law/corporate
work environments.

What about education/academic environments? I am referring to
undergraduates/graduates/scholars who need to have a flexible and
powerful tool to make citations, quotations with links to the
quoted/cited document etc. What I am suggesting is that MS look into
the requirements of university students and scholars and create or add
functions that help them do what they do when they write a paper, a
study etc.

Is a "Word 200x Scholar" foreseeable in the future? Wouldn't this open
a new market for Word?

Thanks

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Those two requirements (which make sense only for something like court
transcripts) can be effectively achieved only with a text box in the right
margin and invariably fixed line spacing (with widow/orphan control
disabled). It's not unreasonable for that type of document but entirely
impractical for anything else. And at least in the case of transcripts, the
"writer" is not trying to *create* content!

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

All true. Add the 'exact number of lines per page' requirement with line
numbering on the right making it all mind-bogglingly distracting to the
user trying to create a meaningful content.

Terry

I would be satisfied if the graduate departments of universities would
become educated about what is practically feasible with Word and not
create unnecessary obstacles by imposing standards developed for
typewriters. This is true of courts as well. I've seen students and
lawyers hamstrung by requirements such as indents defined in terms of
spaces, vertical positioning in terms of lines, line spacing required to
be "double" without specifying font size, etc.

I consulted on a court case where one side was accusing the other of
overstuffing a brief because the lawyers used 24-pt Exactly spacing
instead of "double" spacing for 12-pt TNR. I pointed out that "double"
spacing could vary widely from font to font (font size range but not font
was specified by the court). It would have made much more sense to impose
a word count limitation instead of specifying the number of pages and the
line spacing.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
http://word.mvps.org

Or they understand little about document structure and readability, thus
creating a ridiculous set of requirements.

--
Terry Farrell - MSWord MVP

Your question about "which school should they use as a reference" is
actually a very interesting one.

In my opinion, Word isn't the problem, it's the publishers / schools /
associations who are.

Word provides a set of generic tools which can be perfectly used to
design your own document template with specific page sizes, margins,
(citation/bibliography) styles, ... Unfortunately, the number of
publishers / schools / associations who are willing to invest a little
time in creating a template following their guidelines is almost
non-existent. And it's not just for Word, they don't provide templates
for LaTeX, OpenOffice or any other text processing package either. In
the rare case some template is provided, it is often made by a
'contributor / student / member' rather than the publisher / school /
association. Some good soul who wanted to help others avoid the mess
(s)he ended up in.

I find it amazing how publishers / schools / associations can seem to
get away with such laziness and arrogance towards their 'contributors /
students / members'.

Yves


Where do you stop?

What about those in the medical fields? Legal, accounting,
engineering, to name a few, also have their own needs. And let's not
forget the senior citizen. Even if they did do a "scholar" version -
which school should they use as a reference?

Everyone does their own thing with Word. There are add-ins available
that will accomplish just about anything you need. There's only so
much that one company can do. The tools you ask about are basically
there; you just need to learn how to use them. And some of the tasks
need to be done manually - you'll never learn how to do it if you
depend on a computer to do everything.

--
JoAnn Paules
MVP Microsoft [Publisher]
Tech Editor for "Microsoft Publisher 2007 For Dummies"



Hi all,

I have been using Word 2007 for a few months now. It's a very
versatile product, but I think its functionalities are very much
influenced by the needs and requirements of business/law/corporate
work environments.

What about education/academic environments? I am referring to
undergraduates/graduates/scholars who need to have a flexible and
powerful tool to make citations, quotations with links to the
quoted/cited document etc. What I am suggesting is that MS look into
the requirements of university students and scholars and create or
add functions that help them do what they do when they write a paper,
a study etc.

Is a "Word 200x Scholar" foreseeable in the future? Wouldn't this
open a new market for Word?

Thanks

 

[mocha99]

Hi,

when students/professors/scholars (I am referring to higher education,
post-graduate, research institutions et similia) write a paper they
collect a bibliography and make quotations or reference to the book/paper.

Could making it possible to create a database of quotations with the
linked citation so that the writer can click on a selected quotation and
insert it in the text or click on the quotation anad automatically get
the citation could ease things.

Other example create a database of jpegs with linked quotations and
citations etc. tat can be click-added or click-referenced (as an
embedded pic or quotation or citation in the text).

Something like Zotero partially does (and that I am sure MS can do much
better) or, on a broader scale making Word more of a writing tool with
knowledge management functionalities such as integration with OPACs,
NGCs, digital content databases (e-papers, e-journals etc.), adding text
analysis feature that help creating cross references or individuating
contradictions, or lexical clouds that can be use to analyse
over-developed and under-developed areas in the text....

More in general it might consist of selecting focus groups,
questionnaires, usability test on a selected sample of student/scholars/
researchers asking them what is that you do/need to do when you write a
paper? What is missing? etc etc.

Just a few ideas... perhaps they are even not very smart... thanks!