A new idea for WYSIWYG rich text editors

[Booted Cat]

Hello All,

When I loaded a document to OpenOffice Writer and wanted to add
annotation text immediately after some words, I found it difficult to
easily insert annotation text with another formatting to multiple
positions of the original text.

Suppose the original text is formatted with Times New Roman, Unbold:

aaa bbb ccc ddd eee fff ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

And I want to append annotations "123", "456", "789" formatted with
Arial Bold to the words "bbb", "ddd", "fff" in the original text, to
make it like this:

aaa bbb [123] ccc ddd [456] eee fff [789] ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

Here [ ] means the enclosed text is formatted with Arial Bold, a
different formatting from that of the original text.

In practice I want to annotate for much more words than the above
simplified example. What makes my task difficult is that all WYSIWYG
(What You See Is What You Get) rich text editors (Microsoft Word,
OpenOffice Writer, Wordpad, etc.) apply the formatting of the current
selection point as you type. To change the formatting of the current
selection point, you have to do extra clicks or keyboard shortcuts.
And when you move the selection point to another position, the current
formatting automatically changes according to the new position. This
behavior may be useful in general, but I suggest rich text editors to
allow a new formatting mode - that is to say, once you choose a
formatting, all subsequent inputs will use this formatting, regardless
where you input. I call this new mode "Pen Mode", because it is like
choosing a new pen of another color/size and writing anywhere in the
document without having to reset to this formatting again and again.

Best Regards,
Yao Ziyuan
http://babelcode.crazylife.org

 

[Word Heretic]

G'day (e-mail address removed) (Booted Cat),

One simple way to achieve this is to use an invisible table, tab to
move between entries, and style the columns of the table
appropriately.


Steve Hudson - Word Heretic
Want a hyperlinked index? S/W R&D? See WordHeretic.com

steve from wordheretic.com (Email replies require payment)


Booted Cat reckoned:

 

[Klaus Linke]

Hi Yao,

If you insert an annotation (= comments) anywhere, Word will automatically
apply the "Comment Text" style.

So it already works as you propose?

If you don't want to use Word's annotation mechanism, you can use your own
character or paragraph style for annotations, and assign a keyboard
shortcut for it.

Not that I don't understand your "pen mode" concept, but I think it would
be confusing.
If I put the cursor somewhere in some text, I expect that what I type will
appear in the style that's applied to that text.

Regards,
Klaus

 

[Booted Cat]

Hi,

My example is just a simplified one, using aaa bbb and so on to
represent actual English words.

G'day (e-mail address removed) (Booted Cat),

One simple way to achieve this is to use an invisible table, tab to
move between entries, and style the columns of the table
appropriately.


Steve Hudson - Word Heretic
Want a hyperlinked index? S/W R&D? See WordHeretic.com

steve from wordheretic.com (Email replies require payment)


Booted Cat reckoned:

Hello All,

When I loaded a document to OpenOffice Writer and wanted to add
annotation text immediately after some words, I found it difficult to
easily insert annotation text with another formatting to multiple
positions of the original text.

Suppose the original text is formatted with Times New Roman, Unbold:

aaa bbb ccc ddd eee fff ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

And I want to append annotations "123", "456", "789" formatted with
Arial Bold to the words "bbb", "ddd", "fff" in the original text, to
make it like this:

aaa bbb [123] ccc ddd [456] eee fff [789] ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

Here [ ] means the enclosed text is formatted with Arial Bold, a
different formatting from that of the original text.

In practice I want to annotate for much more words than the above
simplified example. What makes my task difficult is that all WYSIWYG
(What You See Is What You Get) rich text editors (Microsoft Word,
OpenOffice Writer, Wordpad, etc.) apply the formatting of the current
selection point as you type. To change the formatting of the current
selection point, you have to do extra clicks or keyboard shortcuts.
And when you move the selection point to another position, the current
formatting automatically changes according to the new position. This
behavior may be useful in general, but I suggest rich text editors to
allow a new formatting mode - that is to say, once you choose a
formatting, all subsequent inputs will use this formatting, regardless
where you input. I call this new mode "Pen Mode", because it is like
choosing a new pen of another color/size and writing anywhere in the
document without having to reset to this formatting again and again.

Best Regards,
Yao Ziyuan
http://babelcode.crazylife.org

 

[Booted Cat]

Hi,

Hi Yao,

If you insert an annotation (= comments) anywhere, Word will automatically
apply the "Comment Text" style.

So it already works as you propose?

Word's Insert|Annotation command inserts annotations on the right side
of the original document, so it isn't very intuitive. And it isn't a
formatting tool. And to insert an annotation you have to choose the
menu or do some shortcut, not very convenient for frequent annotation
insertions.

If you don't want to use Word's annotation mechanism, you can use your own
character or paragraph style for annotations, and assign a keyboard
shortcut for it.

Even one extra keystroke seems wasteful before inputting each new
annotation.

Not that I don't understand your "pen mode" concept, but I think it would
be confusing.
If I put the cursor somewhere in some text, I expect that what I type will
appear in the style that's applied to that text.

Pen Mode is mainly intended for annotating on someone else's work, so
it's not very likely that modifying existing text is needed.

Regards,
Klaus

Anyway, I've submitted it as a new feature to OpenOffice's bug report
system...

Hello All,

When I loaded a document to OpenOffice Writer and wanted to add
annotation text immediately after some words, I found it difficult to
easily insert annotation text with another formatting to multiple
positions of the original text.

Suppose the original text is formatted with Times New Roman, Unbold:

aaa bbb ccc ddd eee fff ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

And I want to append annotations "123", "456", "789" formatted with
Arial Bold to the words "bbb", "ddd", "fff" in the original text, to
make it like this:

aaa bbb [123] ccc ddd [456] eee fff [789] ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

Here [ ] means the enclosed text is formatted with Arial Bold, a
different formatting from that of the original text.

In practice I want to annotate for much more words than the above
simplified example. What makes my task difficult is that all WYSIWYG
(What You See Is What You Get) rich text editors (Microsoft Word,
OpenOffice Writer, Wordpad, etc.) apply the formatting of the current
selection point as you type. To change the formatting of the current
selection point, you have to do extra clicks or keyboard shortcuts.
And when you move the selection point to another position, the current
formatting automatically changes according to the new position. This
behavior may be useful in general, but I suggest rich text editors to
allow a new formatting mode - that is to say, once you choose a
formatting, all subsequent inputs will use this formatting, regardless
where you input. I call this new mode "Pen Mode", because it is like
choosing a new pen of another color/size and writing anywhere in the
document without having to reset to this formatting again and again.

Best Regards,
Yao Ziyuan
http://babelcode.crazylife.org

 

[Klaus Linke]

Word's Insert|Annotation command inserts annotations

on the right side of the original document, so it isn't very
intuitive.

You can also have comments appear as screen tips (popups that appear if you
hover with the mouse over annotated text) and/or in a comment pane below
the document.

Anyway, I've submitted it as a new feature to OpenOffice's
bug report system...

You can mail it to (e-mail address removed), too.

If a document is protected against editing, and only comments are allowed,
anything you type could be turned into a comment automatically... no
additional shortcut is in principle necessary.
OTOH, things would get confusing if some sections are protected against
editing while others are not.

The comments could optionally be shown inline (the way you would prefer
them, but currently not possible), or in the margin, or in the comment
pane.
OTOH, inline comments might be hard to see, depending on the formatting,
and you would need a new additional control to easily show/hide them
(analogous to the way hidden text or field codes can be shown/hidden).

Maybe I'm a bit defensive...
I'd just like if the way Word works stays consistent and easy to understand
.... and the "pen mode" and inline comments would be two more features that
users would have to learn :-/

Regards,
Klaus

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

I could see "Pen Mode" being useful, but I think we kinda already have
it--if you turn on Track Changes and type in the text, all annotations will
show up in a different format. There's no reason the person being reviewed
can't just read that and skip the Accept/Reject changes part. I've
commented papers that way before, and students were fine with it.

But maybe I'm missing something? I'm coming late to this discussion.

DM

Hi,

Hi Yao,

If you insert an annotation (= comments) anywhere, Word will automatically
apply the "Comment Text" style.

So it already works as you propose?

Word's Insert|Annotation command inserts annotations on the right side
of the original document, so it isn't very intuitive. And it isn't a
formatting tool. And to insert an annotation you have to choose the
menu or do some shortcut, not very convenient for frequent annotation
insertions.

If you don't want to use Word's annotation mechanism, you can use your own
character or paragraph style for annotations, and assign a keyboard
shortcut for it.

Even one extra keystroke seems wasteful before inputting each new
annotation.

Not that I don't understand your "pen mode" concept, but I think it would
be confusing.
If I put the cursor somewhere in some text, I expect that what I type will
appear in the style that's applied to that text.

Pen Mode is mainly intended for annotating on someone else's work, so
it's not very likely that modifying existing text is needed.

Regards,
Klaus

Anyway, I've submitted it as a new feature to OpenOffice's bug report
system...

Hello All,

When I loaded a document to OpenOffice Writer and wanted to add
annotation text immediately after some words, I found it difficult to
easily insert annotation text with another formatting to multiple
positions of the original text.

Suppose the original text is formatted with Times New Roman, Unbold:

aaa bbb ccc ddd eee fff ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

And I want to append annotations "123", "456", "789" formatted with
Arial Bold to the words "bbb", "ddd", "fff" in the original text, to
make it like this:

aaa bbb [123] ccc ddd [456] eee fff [789] ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

Here [ ] means the enclosed text is formatted with Arial Bold, a
different formatting from that of the original text.

In practice I want to annotate for much more words than the above
simplified example. What makes my task difficult is that all WYSIWYG
(What You See Is What You Get) rich text editors (Microsoft Word,
OpenOffice Writer, Wordpad, etc.) apply the formatting of the current
selection point as you type. To change the formatting of the current
selection point, you have to do extra clicks or keyboard shortcuts.
And when you move the selection point to another position, the current
formatting automatically changes according to the new position. This
behavior may be useful in general, but I suggest rich text editors to
allow a new formatting mode - that is to say, once you choose a
formatting, all subsequent inputs will use this formatting, regardless
where you input. I call this new mode "Pen Mode", because it is like
choosing a new pen of another color/size and writing anywhere in the
document without having to reset to this formatting again and again.

Best Regards,
Yao Ziyuan
http://babelcode.crazylife.org

 

[Klaus Linke]

But maybe I'm missing something?

No!! I wanted to suggest that, too, and then forgot.

Though it may be a bit dangerous to "misuse" track changes for making
annotations.
I routinely "accept all changes" when I get documents from others, because
many people forget to do that.
This would turn the "comments" into regular text.

(BTW, I like the idea of "inline comments" less and less the longer I think
about it. For example, it would be impossible to annotate objects/pictures,
or numbers/stuff in narrow table cells)

Regards,
Klaus

I could see "Pen Mode" being useful, but I think we kinda already have
it--if you turn on Track Changes and type in the text, all annotations will
show up in a different format. There's no reason the person being reviewed
can't just read that and skip the Accept/Reject changes part. I've
commented papers that way before, and students were fine with it.

But maybe I'm missing something? I'm coming late to this discussion.

DM

Hi,

Hi Yao,

If you insert an annotation (= comments) anywhere, Word will automatically
apply the "Comment Text" style.

So it already works as you propose?

Word's Insert|Annotation command inserts annotations on the right side
of the original document, so it isn't very intuitive. And it isn't a
formatting tool. And to insert an annotation you have to choose the
menu or do some shortcut, not very convenient for frequent annotation
insertions.

If you don't want to use Word's annotation mechanism, you can use your own
character or paragraph style for annotations, and assign a keyboard
shortcut for it.

Even one extra keystroke seems wasteful before inputting each new
annotation.

Not that I don't understand your "pen mode" concept, but I think it would
be confusing.
If I put the cursor somewhere in some text, I expect that what I type will
appear in the style that's applied to that text.

Pen Mode is mainly intended for annotating on someone else's work, so
it's not very likely that modifying existing text is needed.

Regards,
Klaus

Anyway, I've submitted it as a new feature to OpenOffice's bug report
system...

Hello All,

When I loaded a document to OpenOffice Writer and wanted to add
annotation text immediately after some words, I found it difficult to
easily insert annotation text with another formatting to multiple
positions of the original text.

Suppose the original text is formatted with Times New Roman, Unbold:

aaa bbb ccc ddd eee fff ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

And I want to append annotations "123", "456", "789" formatted with
Arial Bold to the words "bbb", "ddd", "fff" in the original text, to
make it like this:

aaa bbb [123] ccc ddd [456] eee fff [789] ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

Here [ ] means the enclosed text is formatted with Arial Bold, a
different formatting from that of the original text.

In practice I want to annotate for much more words than the above
simplified example. What makes my task difficult is that all WYSIWYG
(What You See Is What You Get) rich text editors (Microsoft Word,
OpenOffice Writer, Wordpad, etc.) apply the formatting of the current
selection point as you type. To change the formatting of the current
selection point, you have to do extra clicks or keyboard shortcuts.
And when you move the selection point to another position, the current
formatting automatically changes according to the new position. This
behavior may be useful in general, but I suggest rich text editors to
allow a new formatting mode - that is to say, once you choose a
formatting, all subsequent inputs will use this formatting, regardless
where you input. I call this new mode "Pen Mode", because it is like
choosing a new pen of another color/size and writing anywhere in the
document without having to reset to this formatting again and again.

Best Regards,
Yao Ziyuan
http://babelcode.crazylife.org

 

[Robert M. Franz]

Hi Klaus

Klaus Linke wrote:
[..]

(BTW, I like the idea of "inline comments" less and less the longer I think
about it. For example, it would be impossible to annotate objects/pictures,
or numbers/stuff in narrow table cells)

Comments, but not inline: What about (mis-)using footnotes ...?

2cents
..bob

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Hi Klaus

Klaus Linke wrote:
[..]

(BTW, I like the idea of "inline comments" less and less the longer I think
about it. For example, it would be impossible to annotate objects/pictures,
or numbers/stuff in narrow table cells)

Comments, but not inline: What about (mis-)using footnotes ...?

Might as well use Comments, no? They show up the same way, pretty
much--mouseover popups or in my version, you can click View | Comments to
get them to show up in a Comment pane at the bottom in Normal view, just as
footnotes do.

Because every doc I edit has footnotes already! Actually, my problem
was that you can't insert a Comment in reference to a footnote. Apparently
the developers don't think footnotes would need comments?

Dayo

 

[Dayo Mitchell]

Though it may be a bit dangerous to "misuse" track changes for making
annotations.
I routinely "accept all changes" when I get documents from others, because
many people forget to do that.
This would turn the "comments" into regular text.

Well, I'm not all that sophisticated a user, and neither are my students, so
none of us had ever heard of Accepting Track Changes, so it was okay. But I
found that Track Changes mode encouraged me to *rewrite* a student's paper,
and decided I prefer using Comments, and highlighting to flag typos. Very
hard to underline a phrase and note "unclear" using Track Changes.

However, since Track Changes already exists, I wonder how hard would it be
to create a Pen Mode that is essentially Track Changes with the ability to
Accept them disabled? But that sure seems like an unnecessary bell and
whistle. I should think a note in the covering email would prevent the
Accept All problem.

Dayo

I could see "Pen Mode" being useful, but I think we kinda already have
it--if you turn on Track Changes and type in the text, all annotations will
show up in a different format. There's no reason the person being reviewed
can't just read that and skip the Accept/Reject changes part. I've
commented papers that way before, and students were fine with it.

But maybe I'm missing something? I'm coming late to this discussion.

DM

Hi,

Hi Yao,

If you insert an annotation (= comments) anywhere, Word will automatically
apply the "Comment Text" style.

So it already works as you propose?


Word's Insert|Annotation command inserts annotations on the right side
of the original document, so it isn't very intuitive. And it isn't a
formatting tool. And to insert an annotation you have to choose the
menu or do some shortcut, not very convenient for frequent annotation
insertions.

If you don't want to use Word's annotation mechanism, you can use your own
character or paragraph style for annotations, and assign a keyboard
shortcut for it.

Even one extra keystroke seems wasteful before inputting each new
annotation.


Not that I don't understand your "pen mode" concept, but I think it would
be confusing.
If I put the cursor somewhere in some text, I expect that what I type will
appear in the style that's applied to that text.

Pen Mode is mainly intended for annotating on someone else's work, so
it's not very likely that modifying existing text is needed.


Regards,
Klaus



Anyway, I've submitted it as a new feature to OpenOffice's bug report
system...




Hello All,

When I loaded a document to OpenOffice Writer and wanted to add
annotation text immediately after some words, I found it difficult to
easily insert annotation text with another formatting to multiple
positions of the original text.

Suppose the original text is formatted with Times New Roman, Unbold:

aaa bbb ccc ddd eee fff ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

And I want to append annotations "123", "456", "789" formatted with
Arial Bold to the words "bbb", "ddd", "fff" in the original text, to
make it like this:

aaa bbb [123] ccc ddd [456] eee fff [789] ggg hhh iii jjj kkk.

Here [ ] means the enclosed text is formatted with Arial Bold, a
different formatting from that of the original text.

In practice I want to annotate for much more words than the above
simplified example. What makes my task difficult is that all WYSIWYG
(What You See Is What You Get) rich text editors (Microsoft Word,
OpenOffice Writer, Wordpad, etc.) apply the formatting of the current
selection point as you type. To change the formatting of the current
selection point, you have to do extra clicks or keyboard shortcuts.
And when you move the selection point to another position, the current
formatting automatically changes according to the new position. This
behavior may be useful in general, but I suggest rich text editors to
allow a new formatting mode - that is to say, once you choose a
formatting, all subsequent inputs will use this formatting, regardless
where you input. I call this new mode "Pen Mode", because it is like
choosing a new pen of another color/size and writing anywhere in the
document without having to reset to this formatting again and again.

Best Regards,
Yao Ziyuan
http://babelcode.crazylife.org

 

[Robert M. Franz]

Comments, but not inline: What about (mis-)using footnotes ...?

[..]
Because every doc I edit has footnotes already!

Touché!

..bob