a new task changes the start date on a previous task

[Kraus]

When I'm building a plan and specify a duration of 3 work days for example, it would set the start finish as Jan 1-3 (hypothetical). If I then do another task that's 5 work days using the same resource, project starts this task on Jan 1 and the first task pushes out to Jan 6. If it matters, I resource at 80% (not 100%) and this is setup in the project server.

I don't want to have predecessors established when the resource is the only constraint, however, I want the first task to be completed prior to moving to the next task. I can prioritize the plan but as it gets bigger this becomes difficult to manage.

If anyone can help it would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Dave

 

[Steve House]

First turn off automatic leveling, it'll drive you nuts as tasks fly
about the schedule without apparent rhyme or reason.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want predecessor/successor links in
your plan - if it actually matters in what order task one and task two
are to be done, setting those rules into the plan is the very reason
that the ability to specify links exists. Or task prorities are there
for those circumstances where the physical process doesn't demand a
certain sequencing but you still want them to be done in a certain
order. If you don't have links there and/or task priorities set, Project
will assume it can use its own internal rule set in resolving resource
overallocation problems. If it actually doesn't matter, then leave out
the links and go with the schedule the way Project does it for you. Use
the tool the way it was designed to be used <grin>.

--
Steve House
MS Project MVP
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

When I'm building a plan and specify a duration of 3 work days for

example, it would set the start finish as Jan 1-3 (hypothetical). If I
then do another task that's 5 work days using the same resource, project
starts this task on Jan 1 and the first task pushes out to Jan 6. If it
matters, I resource at 80% (not 100%) and this is setup in the project
server.

I don't want to have predecessors established when the resource is the

only constraint, however, I want the first task to be completed prior to
moving to the next task. I can prioritize the plan but as it gets bigger
this becomes difficult to manage.

 

[Gerard Ducouret]

Hello Dave,

I think that the best way to do that is to set a higher priority on the
first task.
To quickly manage the priorities, you can insert the "Priority" field in the
Entry Table.

Happy New Year,

Gérard Ducouret

When I'm building a plan and specify a duration of 3 work days for

example, it would set the start finish as Jan 1-3 (hypothetical). If I then
do another task that's 5 work days using the same resource, project starts
this task on Jan 1 and the first task pushes out to Jan 6. If it matters, I
resource at 80% (not 100%) and this is setup in the project server.

I don't want to have predecessors established when the resource is the

only constraint, however, I want the first task to be completed prior to
moving to the next task. I can prioritize the plan but as it gets bigger
this becomes difficult to manage.

 

[Kraus]

Thanks for your quick response Steve.

It's not that I don't want preds. It's that I don't want preds when the only constraint is the resource. I may have opportunity to add resources in the furture and therefore reducing the duration of the project. However, if I have preds in place which are specific to the task and not the resource then additional resources will not reduce the project duration. I hope I'm making sense.

It appears that Project does use it's own set of rules whereby the same resource doing multiple tasks will automatically be sorted by longest task first through to shortest or their about. I tried inputing the task/resource, then before going to the next task I updated the priority to 1000. This ensures that the task is first in line but the problem with this is that you end up getting overallocation if you have to go back and add more items. It's all getting very confusing.

Is this making any sense????

 

[Trevor Rabey]

whoa, stop there and take a deep breath. you are skating on the edge of
making this a lot more complicated than it is.
a task is either the predecesor of another task or it is not. if it is, then
show it with links, if not then don't link them.
turn off automatic levelling and put two new buttons (level now, clear
levelling) on the menu bar using view, toolbars, customise.
this way you can level when you want to.
and don't mix up levelling with effort driven (along with fixed
units/work/duration). these are completely separate issues.

Thanks for your quick response Steve.

It's not that I don't want preds. It's that I don't want preds when the

only constraint is the resource. I may have opportunity to add resources in
the furture and therefore reducing the duration of the project. However, if
I have preds in place which are specific to the task and not the resource
then additional resources will not reduce the project duration. I hope I'm
making sense.

It appears that Project does use it's own set of rules whereby the same

resource doing multiple tasks will automatically be sorted by longest task
first through to shortest or their about. I tried inputing the
task/resource, then before going to the next task I updated the priority to
1000. This ensures that the task is first in line but the problem with this
is that you end up getting overallocation if you have to go back and add
more items. It's all getting very confusing.

 

[Steve House]

Predecessor/successor links do NOT prevent the project duration from
getting shorter when resources are added, I don't know where you could
have possibly gotten that impression. Duration adjustment with resource
changes is a fundamental operation in MSP. I have three tasks in my
project - prepare wall 5 days, paint wall 10 days, finish detail 5 days
all linked FS in sequence with one resource assigned to all of them.
Total duration is 20 days. Now I add 1 more painter to task 2.
Duration for that task drops from 10 days to 5 days and the project
duration drops from 20 days to 15 days. True, you must make appropriate
choices for the effort driven / non-effort driven and the task type
settings for the tasks you are adjusting the resources on but that
shouldn't be a problem.

The project schedule needs to model the work flow that produces the
project deliverables and task links are the way to accomplish that.
Think of Project as a work scheduling tool, not a resource scheduling
tool per se.


--
Steve House
MS Project MVP
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Thanks for your quick response Steve.

It's not that I don't want preds. It's that I don't want preds when

the only constraint is the resource. I may have opportunity to add
resources in the furture and therefore reducing the duration of the
project. However, if I have preds in place which are specific to the
task and not the resource then additional resources will not reduce the
project duration. I hope I'm making sense.

It appears that Project does use it's own set of rules whereby the

same resource doing multiple tasks will automatically be sorted by
longest task first through to shortest or their about. I tried inputing
the task/resource, then before going to the next task I updated the
priority to 1000. This ensures that the task is first in line but the
problem with this is that you end up getting overallocation if you have
to go back and add more items. It's all getting very confusing.

 

[Kraus]

Hi Trevor,
I sent a long winded response to Steve if you would like to read and give me feedback it would be appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Kraus]

Thanks again for the feedback Steve.

The wall example you provided is logical; however, the tasks provided are dependant on the previous task being finished. You can't paint the wall until you prepare it.

The issue I have is where you have tasks that are not dependant on another but you want certain ones to finish before you go on to the next group. For example

Example 1
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Mon 1/12/04 Fri 1/16/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Mon 1/19/04 Tue 1/20/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 1/21/04 Mon 1/26/04 4 dev 1

Now if I add another series of tasks totally unrelated but the same individual is doing the work I get the following result after I level resources (manually)

Example 2
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Thu 1/22/04 Wed 1/28/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Thu 1/29/04 Fri 1/30/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 2/11/04 Mon 2/16/04 4 dev 1

Lay dirt for Garden 8 days Mon 1/12/04 Wed 1/21/04 dev 1
Lay plants 3 days Mon 2/2/04 Wed 2/4/04 7 dev 1
Lay grass 4 days Thu 2/5/04 Tue 2/10/04 8 dev 1

As you can see, we are no longer finishing the wall before we start work on the garden. If I want to make the garden wait then I have to make the garden dependant on the wall being finished. However, if I do that and then get another resource to help me out then the dates don't change (see below).

Example 3
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Mon 1/12/04 Fri 1/16/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Mon 1/19/04 Tue 1/20/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 1/21/04 Mon 1/26/04 4 dev 1
Wall finished 0 days Mon 1/26/04 Mon 1/26/04 5

Lay dirt for Garden 8 days Tue 1/27/04 Thu 2/5/04 6 dev 2
Lay plants 3 days Fri 2/6/04 Tue 2/10/04 8 dev 2
Lay grass 4 days Wed 2/11/04 Mon 2/16/04 9 dev 2

But with the new resource, I can start the garden straight away and therefore reduce the duration of the project (see below).

Example 4
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Mon 1/12/04 Fri 1/16/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Mon 1/19/04 Tue 1/20/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 1/21/04 Mon 1/26/04 4 dev 1
Wall finished 0 days Mon 1/26/04 Mon 1/26/04 5

Lay dirt for Garden 8 days Mon 1/5/04 Wed 1/14/04 dev 2
Lay plants 3 days Thu 1/15/04 Mon 1/19/04 8 dev 2
Lay grass 4 days Tue 1/20/04 Fri 1/23/04 9 dev 2

I now have my project finished on Jan 26 instead of Feb 16.

So back to the original question..... In example 2, how do I have the wall finish before the garden starts without having to have dependancies in place? I have experimented with using the priority function (1000) before moving to the next set of tasks but the problem with this is that if you have to go back and add another task (i.e. build foundation for wall) with those tasks already set with a priority of 1000 then the resource becomes overallocated. In addition to this, I don't really want to use priorities because as the plan gets bigger the priorities become harder to manage.

If you have read all of this, thankyou very much and I look forward to your response.

Dave

 

[Mike Glen]

Hi Kraus,

Have you tried levelling using the setting "ID only"

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

Thanks again for the feedback Steve.

The wall example you provided is logical; however, the tasks provided are

dependant on the previous task being finished. You can't paint the wall
until you prepare it.

The issue I have is where you have tasks that are not dependant on another

but you want certain ones to finish before you go on to the next group. For
example

Example 1
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Mon 1/12/04 Fri 1/16/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Mon 1/19/04 Tue 1/20/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 1/21/04 Mon 1/26/04 4 dev 1

Now if I add another series of tasks totally unrelated but the same

individual is doing the work I get the following result after I level
resources (manually)

Example 2
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Thu 1/22/04 Wed 1/28/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Thu 1/29/04 Fri 1/30/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 2/11/04 Mon 2/16/04 4 dev 1

Lay dirt for Garden 8 days Mon 1/12/04 Wed 1/21/04 dev 1
Lay plants 3 days Mon 2/2/04 Wed 2/4/04 7 dev 1
Lay grass 4 days Thu 2/5/04 Tue 2/10/04 8 dev 1

As you can see, we are no longer finishing the wall before we start work

on the garden. If I want to make the garden wait then I have to make the
garden dependant on the wall being finished. However, if I do that and then
get another resource to help me out then the dates don't change (see below).

Example 3
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Mon 1/12/04 Fri 1/16/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Mon 1/19/04 Tue 1/20/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 1/21/04 Mon 1/26/04 4 dev 1
Wall finished 0 days Mon 1/26/04 Mon 1/26/04 5

Lay dirt for Garden 8 days Tue 1/27/04 Thu 2/5/04 6 dev 2
Lay plants 3 days Fri 2/6/04 Tue 2/10/04 8 dev 2
Lay grass 4 days Wed 2/11/04 Mon 2/16/04 9 dev 2

But with the new resource, I can start the garden straight away and

therefore reduce the duration of the project (see below).

Example 4
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Mon 1/12/04 Fri 1/16/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Mon 1/19/04 Tue 1/20/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 1/21/04 Mon 1/26/04 4 dev 1
Wall finished 0 days Mon 1/26/04 Mon 1/26/04 5

Lay dirt for Garden 8 days Mon 1/5/04 Wed 1/14/04 dev 2
Lay plants 3 days Thu 1/15/04 Mon 1/19/04 8 dev 2
Lay grass 4 days Tue 1/20/04 Fri 1/23/04 9 dev 2

I now have my project finished on Jan 26 instead of Feb 16.

So back to the original question..... In example 2, how do I have the wall

finish before the garden starts without having to have dependancies in
place? I have experimented with using the priority function (1000) before
moving to the next set of tasks but the problem with this is that if you
have to go back and add another task (i.e. build foundation for wall) with
those tasks already set with a priority of 1000 then the resource becomes
overallocated. In addition to this, I don't really want to use priorities
because as the plan gets bigger the priorities become harder to manage.

 

[Kraus]

Hi Mike,
I haven't tried that. What does it do?

 

[Mike Glen]

It levels tasks strictly in their ID order - one after the other.

Mike Glen
MS Project MVP

 

[Steve House]

Sounds to me like a classic example of the reason the priority function
is there. If you only have one resource, you want to garden to wait
until the wall is finished. But if you find a second resource you want
to start the garden task sequence with resource 2 at the same time
resource 1 is starting on the wall sequence. Enter two summary tasks,
Wall and Garden, with their component tasks indented and linked under
them. Set all the wall tasks (select all the wall subtasks, click the
Task Information form tool, and set their priority all at once) to
something higher than the default. I'm not sure I'd go all the way up
to a 1000 priority on the wall - making all the wall tasks 520 while
leaving the garden task at 500 works just fine. If you have to add
another task in the wall, just insert it at the right spot in the wall
sequence and adjust its priority to the same value as the other wall
subtasks. You'll find that when you have just one resource assigned to
all of the subtasks the wall will go to completion then the garden will
start. But if you change and have resource 2 available for the garden,
clear the original leveling and relevel and Wall and Garden will start
together and go in parallel. I don't see the priorities getting the
unmanageable. It's not like you're going to enter a list of 400 tasks
without any links or structure and rely strictly on leveling to do the
sequencing - at least I hope that's not your intention. There's bound
to be a logical structure where certain tasks are related to each other
as a sequence under a summary task (sometimes it helps to think of
summaries as mini sub-projects) and some of the summary tasks will have
to be done in a certain sequential relationship with others. A Project
is a process that creates a deliverable and I can't think of any process
in which the order things must be done is totally arbitrary and the
project plan is a model of that process. But if you're going to do it
right it will require some attention to such details as the task
priority. It's not an accident that at some level of complexity
managing the project effectively becomes a full-time job <g>.

--
Steve House
MS Project MVP
Visit http://www.mvps.org/project/faqs.htm for the FAQs

Thanks again for the feedback Steve.

The wall example you provided is logical; however, the tasks provided

are dependant on the previous task being finished. You can't paint the
wall until you prepare it.

The issue I have is where you have tasks that are not dependant on

another but you want certain ones to finish before you go on to the next
group. For example

Example 1
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Mon 1/12/04 Fri 1/16/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Mon 1/19/04 Tue 1/20/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 1/21/04 Mon 1/26/04 4 dev 1

Now if I add another series of tasks totally unrelated but the same

individual is doing the work I get the following result after I level
resources (manually)

Example 2
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Thu 1/22/04 Wed 1/28/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Thu 1/29/04 Fri 1/30/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 2/11/04 Mon 2/16/04 4 dev 1

Lay dirt for Garden 8 days Mon 1/12/04 Wed 1/21/04 dev 1
Lay plants 3 days Mon 2/2/04 Wed 2/4/04 7 dev 1
Lay grass 4 days Thu 2/5/04 Tue 2/10/04 8 dev 1

As you can see, we are no longer finishing the wall before we start

work on the garden. If I want to make the garden wait then I have to
make the garden dependant on the wall being finished. However, if I do
that and then get another resource to help me out then the dates don't
change (see below).

Example 3
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Mon 1/12/04 Fri 1/16/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Mon 1/19/04 Tue 1/20/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 1/21/04 Mon 1/26/04 4 dev 1
Wall finished 0 days Mon 1/26/04 Mon 1/26/04 5

Lay dirt for Garden 8 days Tue 1/27/04 Thu 2/5/04 6 dev 2
Lay plants 3 days Fri 2/6/04 Tue 2/10/04 8 dev 2
Lay grass 4 days Wed 2/11/04 Mon 2/16/04 9 dev 2

But with the new resource, I can start the garden straight away and

therefore reduce the duration of the project (see below).

Example 4
Build Wall 5 days Mon 1/5/04 Fri 1/9/04 dev 1
Prepare Wall 5 days Mon 1/12/04 Fri 1/16/04 2 dev 1
Paint Wall 2 days Mon 1/19/04 Tue 1/20/04 3 dev 1
Detail Wall 4 days Wed 1/21/04 Mon 1/26/04 4 dev 1
Wall finished 0 days Mon 1/26/04 Mon 1/26/04 5

Lay dirt for Garden 8 days Mon 1/5/04 Wed 1/14/04 dev 2
Lay plants 3 days Thu 1/15/04 Mon 1/19/04 8 dev 2
Lay grass 4 days Tue 1/20/04 Fri 1/23/04 9 dev 2

I now have my project finished on Jan 26 instead of Feb 16.

So back to the original question..... In example 2, how do I have the

wall finish before the garden starts without having to have dependancies
in place? I have experimented with using the priority function (1000)
before moving to the next set of tasks but the problem with this is that
if you have to go back and add another task (i.e. build foundation for
wall) with those tasks already set with a priority of 1000 then the
resource becomes overallocated. In addition to this, I don't really want
to use priorities because as the plan gets bigger the priorities become
harder to manage.