A question

[Vicki]

I ran into an irritation with my former hosting company www.bluehill.com. I
have been with them for over three years and here's the situation: I built
a site for my son with FP98. Two weeks after uploading the site, my son was
tragically killed when an 18-wheeler lost control and hit him head-on one
day.

I kept the site up in his memory, and put up a note with a few photos of
him. Periodically, I would change out the photos.
A few months back, I was suddenly unable to save the changes. After phoning
tech support, I was advised that when they installed the Front Page 2002
extensions, it wiped out FP98. (UNIX)

I had paid one-year in advance to Bluehill, $170. When I decided to change
hosting companies and requested a refund, Bluehill said no...no refunds,
even though it was they, themselves, who could no longer support my FP98.
They did not notify me of the change beforehand.

They are located in California and if I were there, I would let a Small
Claims judge handle this...but I'm not. Do I have any legal recourse here?

Vicki

 

[Steve Easton]

They can support FrontPage, just not FrontPage 98 as 98 is not compatible with new "more
secure" server extensions.

Any other version of FrontPage 2000, 2002 or 2003 will work just fine on your site.
If your computer is not running Windows 2000 or Windows XP you will have to Find FrontPage
2000 or 2002 and upgrade your FrontPage version.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

 

[Jack Brewster]

I noticed on the home page that they have a link (bottom left) to the Better
Business Bureau. You might want to check that out. BBB members are
generally held to a higher standard. But be sure that you can prove that
they are violating the agreement. Ask them to be clear why they won't issue
the refund. If there is any language in their terms of agreement that
allows them to keep your money when you cancel, well, you're kind of up a
creek without a paddle.

 

[Steve Easton]

Sorry, I misread the part where you said you had already moved the site.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

 

[Vicki]

Thanks, Jack. Good idea. I will contact the BBB and merely state my case
and provide the information needed. I have all of the correspondence that
has been exchanged between their accountant and myself. For whatever
reason, my emails seem to always be intercepted by their accountant, Cesar
Hernandez.

I no longer expect a refund and will not miss any meals because of it, but I
do have a problem with ethics and decency. Yes, according to their
contract...no refunds after 30-days, I am up a creek without a paddle. On
the other hand, I have paid a lot of money for no service.

I Appreciate your response and suggestion.

Vicki




I noticed on the home page that they have a link (bottom left) to the Better
Business Bureau. You might want to check that out. BBB members are
generally held to a higher standard. But be sure that you can prove that
they are violating the agreement. Ask them to be clear why they won't issue
the refund. If there is any language in their terms of agreement that
allows them to keep your money when you cancel, well, you're kind of up a
creek without a paddle.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

The problem appears to be better characterized as "cant edit anymore" rather
than "wiped out", at least that's what the OP said.

There are actually a few options to remedy this situation;

- the "Web Folders" option available in some newer Windows Operating systems
can interface with FrontPage webs. To get to them, go to "Network Places"
and look for "Add new web folder". The nice editing interface is not there,
but files can be uploaded and re-arranged there. So go to a Windows2000 or
XP machine and check it out. (If working from a local copy of the site, it
can be maintained that way.)

- Ask the host to switch the site to FTP hosting. (Then import a copy of
the site, keep it on the computer, edit with FrontPage, and then use
FrontPage's FTP or a regular FTP program to upload changes back to the
site.)

Realistically, it's not reasonable to expect a host to maintain backwards
compatibility to a 6 (7?) year old program, especially when it puts their
servers at risk due to security issues and holds back all of their other
customers who probably really wanted the new server extensions.

There is little point in complaining, as the technical facts are pretty
clear. Though any quality customer service should be willing to modify the
site or offer alternatives to help out.

This also an arguement for dealing with local hosting companies that are in
the same juristiction and have a little more stake in having a good
relationship with their customers. You get what you pay for, an at $15 a
month or so... you don't get much.

============
Tragic story, sorry.

I would write a letter (on paper) to the president of the company (he's
listed on their site)...outline the problem. Send it certified, return
reciept. Maybe quote something from their Customer Service pages, etc.

Find and read their agreement that you agreed to when you contracted with
them to host your site, before you write the letter...try to be objective
and not emotional when you write the letter. Don't be too agressive with the
first letter...give him an out...save the agression for the second or third
letter.

Switching their extensions should not have wiped out your site. Hopefully,
you had a copy on your local machine.

Legally? Sheesh...you're only chance would be in small claims court and
you're probably not gonna want to go to CA to do that, and risk not winning
to boot.

Write the letter.

JMO..
Robo


| I ran into an irritation with my former hosting company www.bluehill.com.
I
| have been with them for over three years and here's the situation: I
built
| a site for my son with FP98. Two weeks after uploading the site, my son
was
| tragically killed when an 18-wheeler lost control and hit him head-on one
| day.
|
| I kept the site up in his memory, and put up a note with a few photos of
| him. Periodically, I would change out the photos.
| A few months back, I was suddenly unable to save the changes. After
phoning
| tech support, I was advised that when they installed the Front Page 2002
| extensions, it wiped out FP98. (UNIX)
|
| I had paid one-year in advance to Bluehill, $170. When I decided to
change
| hosting companies and requested a refund, Bluehill said no...no refunds,
| even though it was they, themselves, who could no longer support my FP98.
| They did not notify me of the change beforehand.
|
| They are located in California and if I were there, I would let a Small
| Claims judge handle this...but I'm not. Do I have any legal recourse
here?
|
| Vicki
|
|
|

 

[Vicki]

No problem, Steve. Also, I appreciate your response. In the meantime, I
have upgraded to Front Page 2002, but I did this by choice AFTER moving the
site. I could not see doing this beforehand and staying with a company that
left me high and dry.

Vicki


Sorry, I misread the part where you said you had already moved the site.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

They can support FrontPage, just not FrontPage 98 as 98 is not compatible with new "more
secure" server extensions.

Any other version of FrontPage 2000, 2002 or 2003 will work just fine on your site.
If your computer is not running Windows 2000 or Windows XP you will have

to Find
FrontPage

 

[Vicki]

Whoops...sorry Crash. I accidently sent this to your home in error. Here
is my reply again:

Hi Crash,

I have done most of this already and I handled it very calmly and
professionally...not getting tacky, but maintaining a respectable attitude.
I've worked in the business world long enough to know who and how one gets
their bread buttered. At first, their accountant said my situation would
surely warrant a refund, since they were unable to supply the service I had
paid for. But he took my letter and case to the powers-that-be and they
said they don't give pro-rated refunds for any reason. Period. (at least he
alleges to have done this)

I've read the contract and they state that they don't make refunds after the
first 30-days. I just wondered if some governmental agency might be helpful
here since I am being charged for a service that is no longer provided.

I've since found a company that does indeed service FP98, so went with them.
In the process, I "chose" to upgrade to Front Page 2002. I took the
recommendation of a few of the MVPs on this site and went with webhost4life
and am now paying a fraction of the cost for twice the mgs. But I refused to
pay for an upgrade and stay with that company because of their unethical way
of doing business and because it could happen again with no warning.

Vicki

 

[Vicki]

Sparky...I asked the tech support person what I could do now in order to
maintain the site and he was not helpful at all. He told me that I could
either pay for an upgrade or go out and buy one of the FTP services. I
stated that I was unfamiliar with the workings of FTP and could he explain
it to me. He said, "Go to Google and you'll find plenty of places out there
who sell it." He sounded bored and not interested.

I agree it was an old program, but not that old when the site was created.
Under the circumstances, there wasn't enough activity on the account to
worry about. I have since added a personal page and uploaded a beautiful
applet that I created, but that's about it. Eventually, I plan to redesign
the site for other use...thus my reason for keeping it.

Vicki

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Vicki, the issue of FP98 not working with the FP2002 extensions, only applies to Unix/Linux servers,
so by moving to your new host, your site is being hosted on Windows IIS, which current still
supports FP98 clients.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Vicki, did the host offer you the option of switching to their NT plan, which would have solve your
problem?

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Vicki]

Yes Thomas, Bluehill uses Unix. I didn't know any of these things when I
first started out, but am learning the differences.

Vicki


Vicki, the issue of FP98 not working with the FP2002 extensions, only
applies to Unix/Linux servers,
so by moving to your new host, your site is being hosted on Windows IIS,
which current still
supports FP98 clients.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Vicki]

No Thomas. They offered no suggestions at all. When I asked tech support
what I do now to get my site usable again, he just said I needed to either
purchase a FP upgrade, or go find an FTP company. When I said that I was
unfamiliar with using FTP, he told me to go to Google and key in FTP and
there would be all kinds of companies to choose from. He answered my
questions with just a word or so.

What is an NT plan?

Vicki



Vicki, did the host offer you the option of switching to their NT plan,
which would have solve your
problem?

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

Vicki, the issue of FP98 not working with the FP2002 extensions, only

applies to Unix/Linux
servers,

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Vicki,

The NT is for sites hosted on Windows 2000 IIS

http://www.bluehill.com/servers/prices.htm

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Yes.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================


so for a coupla bucks more a month they could have solved her problem.



| Vicki,
|
| The NT is for sites hosted on Windows 2000 IIS
|
| http://www.bluehill.com/servers/prices.htm
|
| --
| ==============================================
| Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
|
| FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| ==============================================
| To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
|
| | > No Thomas. They offered no suggestions at all. When I asked tech support
| > what I do now to get my site usable again, he just said I needed to either
| > purchase a FP upgrade, or go find an FTP company. When I said that I was
| > unfamiliar with using FTP, he told me to go to Google and key in FTP and
| > there would be all kinds of companies to choose from. He answered my
| > questions with just a word or so.
| >
| > What is an NT plan?
| >
| > Vicki
| >
| >
| >
| > | > Vicki, did the host offer you the option of switching to their NT plan,
| > which would have solve your
| > problem?
| >
| > --
| > ==============================================
| > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
| >
| > FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| > ==============================================
| > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| >
| > | > > Vicki, the issue of FP98 not working with the FP2002 extensions, only
| > applies to Unix/Linux
| > servers,
| > > so by moving to your new host, your site is being hosted on Windows IIS,
| > which current still
| > > supports FP98 clients.
| > >
| > > --
| > > ==============================================
| > > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| > > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
| > >
| > > FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| > > ==============================================
| > > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| > > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > >
| > > | > > > Whoops...sorry Crash. I accidently sent this to your home in error.
| > Here
| > > > is my reply again:
| > > >
| > > > Hi Crash,
| > > >
| > > > I have done most of this already and I handled it very calmly and
| > > > professionally...not getting tacky, but maintaining a respectable
| > attitude.
| > > > I've worked in the business world long enough to know who and how one
| > gets
| > > > their bread buttered. At first, their accountant said my situation
| > would
| > > > surely warrant a refund, since they were unable to supply the service I
| > had
| > > > paid for. But he took my letter and case to the powers-that-be and they
| > > > said they don't give pro-rated refunds for any reason. Period. (at least
| > he
| > > > alleges to have done this)
| > > >
| > > > I've read the contract and they state that they don't make refunds after
| > the
| > > > first 30-days. I just wondered if some governmental agency might be
| > helpful
| > > > here since I am being charged for a service that is no longer provided.
| > > >
| > > > I've since found a company that does indeed service FP98, so went with
| > them.
| > > > In the process, I "chose" to upgrade to Front Page 2002. I took the
| > > > recommendation of a few of the MVPs on this site and went with
| > webhost4life
| > > > and am now paying a fraction of the cost for twice the mgs. But I
| > refused to
| > > > pay for an upgrade and stay with that company because of their unethical
| > way
| > > > of doing business and because it could happen again with no warning.
| > > >
| > > > Vicki
| > > >
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Steve Easton]

There are a lot of web hosts out there that are fairly incompetent.

--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

so for a coupla bucks more a month they could have solved her problem.



| Vicki,
|
| The NT is for sites hosted on Windows 2000 IIS
|
| http://www.bluehill.com/servers/prices.htm
|
| --
| ==============================================
| Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
|
| FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| ==============================================
| To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
|
| | > No Thomas. They offered no suggestions at all. When I asked tech support
| > what I do now to get my site usable again, he just said I needed to either
| > purchase a FP upgrade, or go find an FTP company. When I said that I was
| > unfamiliar with using FTP, he told me to go to Google and key in FTP and
| > there would be all kinds of companies to choose from. He answered my
| > questions with just a word or so.
| >
| > What is an NT plan?
| >
| > Vicki
| >
| >
| >
| > | > Vicki, did the host offer you the option of switching to their NT plan,
| > which would have solve your
| > problem?
| >
| > --
| > ==============================================
| > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
| >
| > FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| > ==============================================
| > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| >
| > | > > Vicki, the issue of FP98 not working with the FP2002 extensions, only
| > applies to Unix/Linux
| > servers,
| > > so by moving to your new host, your site is being hosted on Windows IIS,
| > which current still
| > > supports FP98 clients.
| > >
| > > --
| > > ==============================================
| > > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| > > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
| > >
| > > FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| > > ==============================================
| > > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| > > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > >
| > > | > > > Whoops...sorry Crash. I accidently sent this to your home in error.
| > Here
| > > > is my reply again:
| > > >
| > > > Hi Crash,
| > > >
| > > > I have done most of this already and I handled it very calmly and
| > > > professionally...not getting tacky, but maintaining a respectable
| > attitude.
| > > > I've worked in the business world long enough to know who and how one
| > gets
| > > > their bread buttered. At first, their accountant said my situation
| > would
| > > > surely warrant a refund, since they were unable to supply the service I
| > had
| > > > paid for. But he took my letter and case to the powers-that-be and they
| > > > said they don't give pro-rated refunds for any reason. Period. (at least
| > he
| > > > alleges to have done this)
| > > >
| > > > I've read the contract and they state that they don't make refunds after
| > the
| > > > first 30-days. I just wondered if some governmental agency might be
| > helpful
| > > > here since I am being charged for a service that is no longer provided.
| > > >
| > > > I've since found a company that does indeed service FP98, so went with
| > them.
| > > > In the process, I "chose" to upgrade to Front Page 2002. I took the
| > > > recommendation of a few of the MVPs on this site and went with
| > webhost4life
| > > > and am now paying a fraction of the cost for twice the mgs. But I
| > refused to
| > > > pay for an upgrade and stay with that company because of their unethical
| > way
| > > > of doing business and because it could happen again with no warning.
| > > >
| > > > Vicki
| > > >
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|

 

[Vicki]

Thanks, Thomas. I had the Starter Pkg for $190/year. I always paid for a
year in advance and saved $19. At the time, the Mini-Starter was not
available.

Vicki




Vicki,

The NT is for sites hosted on Windows 2000 IIS

http://www.bluehill.com/servers/prices.htm

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

I understand, however the NT start kit should have been recommended to you once you approach them
with the issue. However it sound like they are under the impression that the issue of using FP98
with FP2002 extensions, also applies to the FP2002 extensions under Windows IIS as well.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================

 

[Vicki]

Thanks, Crash.

Vicki




Vicki,

I think, through reading through all this, is that the host could have
solved your problem and didn't...or didn't have a knowledgable enough staff
to know they could have kept you as a paying client.

To me that is not good business, or good Customer Service. Keep the ones
you've got! It's easier than getting new business!

Anyway, good luck!


| Thanks, Thomas. I had the Starter Pkg for $190/year. I always paid for a
| year in advance and saved $19. At the time, the Mini-Starter was not
| available.
|
| Vicki
|
|
|
|
| | Vicki,
|
| The NT is for sites hosted on Windows 2000 IIS
|
| http://www.bluehill.com/servers/prices.htm
|
| --
| ==============================================
| Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
|
| FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| ==============================================
| To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
|
| | > No Thomas. They offered no suggestions at all. When I asked tech
support
| > what I do now to get my site usable again, he just said I needed to
either
| > purchase a FP upgrade, or go find an FTP company. When I said that I
was
| > unfamiliar with using FTP, he told me to go to Google and key in FTP and
| > there would be all kinds of companies to choose from. He answered my
| > questions with just a word or so.
| >
| > What is an NT plan?
| >
| > Vicki
| >
| >
| >
| > | > Vicki, did the host offer you the option of switching to their NT plan,
| > which would have solve your
| > problem?
| >
| > --
| > ==============================================
| > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
| >
| > FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| > ==============================================
| > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| >
| > | > > Vicki, the issue of FP98 not working with the FP2002 extensions, only
| > applies to Unix/Linux
| > servers,
| > > so by moving to your new host, your site is being hosted on Windows
IIS,
| > which current still
| > > supports FP98 clients.
| > >
| > > --
| > > ==============================================
| > > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| > > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
| > >
| > > FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| > > ==============================================
| > > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| > > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > >
| > > | > > > Whoops...sorry Crash. I accidently sent this to your home in error.
| > Here
| > > > is my reply again:
| > > >
| > > > Hi Crash,
| > > >
| > > > I have done most of this already and I handled it very calmly and
| > > > professionally...not getting tacky, but maintaining a respectable
| > attitude.
| > > > I've worked in the business world long enough to know who and how
one
| > gets
| > > > their bread buttered. At first, their accountant said my situation
| > would
| > > > surely warrant a refund, since they were unable to supply the
service
| I
| > had
| > > > paid for. But he took my letter and case to the powers-that-be and
| they
| > > > said they don't give pro-rated refunds for any reason. Period. (at
| least
| > he
| > > > alleges to have done this)
| > > >
| > > > I've read the contract and they state that they don't make refunds
| after
| > the
| > > > first 30-days. I just wondered if some governmental agency might be
| > helpful
| > > > here since I am being charged for a service that is no longer
| provided.
| > > >
| > > > I've since found a company that does indeed service FP98, so went
with
| > them.
| > > > In the process, I "chose" to upgrade to Front Page 2002. I took the
| > > > recommendation of a few of the MVPs on this site and went with
| > webhost4life
| > > > and am now paying a fraction of the cost for twice the mgs. But I
| > refused to
| > > > pay for an upgrade and stay with that company because of their
| unethical
| > way
| > > > of doing business and because it could happen again with no warning.
| > > >
| > > > Vicki
| > > >
| > > >
| > >
| > >
| >
| >
|
|