A97 to AXP conversion

[G. Guntle]

I have read the white papers of converting A97 to Access XP and my mind is
spinning. There's hardly any useful info to find (f.i. when you get DAO-ADO
errors).
Why is Access XP having so much trouble with converting A97 db's ?
MS must have known that people want to (no wrong) HAVE to convert eventually

OK, I'm in the following situation :
A user in our company made a very simple application. This application
needed some very urgent and critical tuning towards high security standards
that were suddenly required. The security and tracking of user imput was
very urgent.
So I was asked to secure the database in a minum amount of time without
rewriting it from scratch.
I started with workgroupmanagement and implemented more security
programmatically with functions that check the membership of the user and
added some basic tracking where needed.

In the white paper it seems like I will have to recreate the workgroup in
2002 from scratch, with all the same PIN codes.
Can I not keep using a seperate A97 workgroup MDW with a Access XP
application ?
We now also use different MDW files, depending the situation.
We have a general A97 system.mdw for regurlar unsecured access use.
The secured appliation calls the secured mdw in the shortcut, but this
secured MDW is not needed for other regular access use.

I must convert the application itself to Access XP. I was just hoping that I
could keep the A97 mdw file that goes with the application.
Is that possible or is it asking for trouble and I should just recreate all
the security again in Access 2002.

 

[Joan Wild]

I must convert the application itself to Access XP. I was just hoping that
I could keep the A97 mdw file that goes with the application.
Is that possible or is it asking for trouble and I should just recreate
all the security again in Access 2002.

You can use a 97 mdw successfully with 2002. Some have reported doing so.
The best option is to recreate the mdw in 2002 (this really shouldn't be
that hard it you have all the names/PIDs written down). If all permissions
are assigned to groups (rather than users), you just need to recreate the
mdw using the names/PIDs of the groups. Then create users anew and assign
them.

 

[G. Guntle]

You can use a 97 mdw successfully with 2002. Some have reported doing so.
The best option is to recreate the mdw in 2002 (this really shouldn't be
that hard it you have all the names/PIDs written down). If all
permissions are assigned to groups (rather than users), you just need to
recreate the mdw using the names/PIDs of the groups. Then create users
anew and assign them.

Thank you Joan! Yes, all permissions are assigned to groups, not to members.

 

[Chris Mills]

Apparently not posted. Slight PC changes made.
Joan has already posted that "You can use a 97 mdw successfully with 2002" is
not true in all cases. (not the cause of the PC glitch)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Mills" <[email protected]>
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.access.conversion
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 10:16 PM
Subject: Re: A97 to AXP conversion

Just a reminder...
If an A97 mdw was ORIGINALLY converted from an A2.0 mda (anytime in it's
former life), then conversion of the mdw to A2k or beyond is not possible.

(Meaning...you can convert it or use it, but you will get "No permission on
Msysaccounts")

The results of converting mda/mdw's is confusing, because if it was ORIGINALLY
generated in A97 it will work in later versions. To be sure, and even though
there is a specific mda/mdw conversion option in the drop-down list, experts
like Kaplan/Chipman advise against converting mdw's (even in the security
paper, I believe)

MS must have known that people want to (no wrong) HAVE to convert eventually

Because MS doesn't give a "rats", as long as they can shove "rats" out the
door at
a profit. Why else would they provide as useless a conversion facility as mdw
in the drop-down list, which is advised against by acknowledged experts and
has never been corrected.

In the same vein, though another subject, an MS employee (Adam Urlich or
Ulrich I think look up Google) has stated that MS would not fix the Office
Developer Access Runtime Setup, which is universally acknowledged as crap
don't rely on me, because THERE WERE 3RD PARTY PRODUCTS YOU COULD BUY,

People don't necessarily HAVE to convert. It may be a hassle, and you may have
particular security requirements. But A97 generally runs on modern systems
(not in my particular case), and even A2.0 generally runs on modern systems
(not in my particular case). Don't ask why it doesn't run in my particular
case, because I was unable to find what was wrong with my particular app, and
I don't now care.

Certainly, you can expect that any problems you come across, you will have to
resolve or workaround yourself, because MS (as stated) doesn't give a "rats".
Even when they are proven MS problems like the MDA/MDW conversion fiasco or
the even worse fiasco of Office Developer Runtime Setup (see www.sagekey.com)

The SECFAQ SAYS you should desecure/resecure security files (if I recall). Why
this is necessary, is a scandal befitting the Nixon era!

(It is unlikely "Even For Me!" that I can remember {or have written}
everything about security of one of my own files. It runs into many thousands
of things, given there are many hundreds of objects let alone groups or users.
Fortunately, in the cases I had to convert, I could remember enough of the
PID/WID to get by, whereas it should have just been an automatic conversion as
evidenced by the drop-down conversion list, if I had sufficient rights at the
outset)

That's what they say. Joan knows this (and says this). She is tops and I'm
shaken if she is now arguing otherwise. Joan is correct in saying you "just"
need to re-create the mdw, in which case the mdb/mde does not need altering at
all. The problem is "only" the mdw. Ha!

Chris

(Find out if the mdw was ever converted from an mda. If it was created in A97,
it certainly works in A2k (not otherwise) and I am not able/inclined to
confirm if it works for later versions. The SECFAQ warns generally of this,
PUH.)

 

[G. Guntle]

Hey thanks for writing all this. Yes, Joans posting was very useful to me.
Fortunately, I created the original A97 mdw fle myself not too long ago and
I documented all of the pid-codes and all
entries in this mdw file. The first mdb is already converted. I just had to
give the admins group all admin permissions again for all the objects in the
application. The permissions for all other groups were ok after conversion.
Also I had to add the DAO 3.6 library in the references and it seems like I
have found a quick way to get this up and running in Office XP. Microsoft
could have added this DAO library default in the conversion routine and it
would have made tons of users less jumpy about the whole process.
My motive to migrate is not because I want to, but because the company
policy is to keep up with Microsoft, thus dumping the good old Office 97 for
good, and implementing Access XP instead of O97. There's nothing our users
can do about this.
I probably already know this SECFAQ that you are referring to, but could you
give me the URL again to be sure ...

 

[Joan Wild]

Also I had to add the DAO 3.6 library in the references and it seems

 

[G. Guntle]

No, no, I created a new MDW, like you said, but the MDB was converted to
A2002 format (not 2000). Maybe all this is because I have a localized
version ?

Now I just read that the default data-format for Access xp is still a Access
2000 database format. I still have a lot of reading to do about the 2002
version, so I hope I'll soon find out why that is, and what is the
difference/advantage between the two formats. I'm reading the Microsoft
Access 2002 Inside Out by Helen Feddema.
Thanks for the URL.

 

[Chris Mills]

Microsoft

could have added this DAO library default in the conversion routine and it
would have made tons of users less jumpy about the whole process.

In fact DAO IS automatically placed in a conversion if it's used. Things which
can prevent that happening are subtle corruptions in the database (which you
may not be aware of, and the converter does it's best!)

It is always a good idea to do a complete decompile/compile/compact both or
either before or after conversion. /Decompile is an undocumented but
well-known switch (take a copy or backup). A97 in particular was prone to
subtle corruptions (meaning the db would not actually throw a tantrum)

If you are not using ADO, you should remove that reference. In fact you should
trial-remove each reference via a copy, if your app still compiles then the
reference is superfluous. Less references = less problems. Unless you use
special features 3 are needed (I think). ADO, though a newer replacement for
DAO, is still not recommended for smallish Access databases, I read. See how
carefull I am with "I think" and "I read"

policy is to keep up with Microsoft, thus dumping the good old Office 97 for
good, and implementing Access XP instead of O97. There's nothing our users
can do about this.

All reports (here) suggest Access XP is one of the better versions. I guess
they had time to improve upon A2000 without going off on a tangent again.
Provided you SP2'd it I s'pose.
I don't know of any reason (for or against) to prefer 2002 native format over
2000 native format, assuming you will never use A2000.

Chris

(BTW if you recreate an mdw knowing all the parameters, not a skerrick of
change should be needed for the mdb (for security purposes that is, not other
conversion issues)