Access vs SQLserver

[NetworkTrade]

Am wondering what are the key parameters that would make the decision between
Access vs SQL Server.

Clearly if one is going to exceed the Access size limits.

Given security direction of Access07 then for a new install security itself
could be a reason to go with SQL Server.

I would welcome other friendly advice from those of you comfortable with
both products.

Part 2: If you are SQL Servier : Is the best front end Access? Or is there
no advantage vs creating it with Visual.net? Further friendly advice on this
point is also welcomed.

tia

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

SQL Server Benefits
Cost
Future Compatability
Reliability
Future Increase of Size Limits (different than current size limits..
for example; MS just increased SQL Express 2005 to 4gb not 2gb)
Scalability
Performance _TOOLS_ like Database Tuning Advisor
Troubleshooting _TOOLS_ like profiler
Expansion to new _TIERS_ like datamarts, analysis services, reporting
services. _VASTLY_ superior to MS Access which has no enterprise level
capabilities

Yes; I can honestly say that MS Access ADP is the best interface to
SQL Server. Or DreamWeaver. VB 2005 / 2008. is _FINALLY_ beginning
to be competitive with MS Access from a ROI perspective.

I've been using Access every day for a decade. I know it like the
back of my hand
The people around here fight a campaign of mis-information-- they are
defensive because they are stuck in the 80s.

I think that anyone using MS Access for _ANY_DATABASE_NEEDS_ should be
out of a job immediately. They should be homeless; drinking wine out
of a paper bag on the side of the road.

 

[Tom van Stiphout]

On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 07:00:00 -0700, NetworkTrade

It all depends on what you want to do. Describe it.
-Tom.

 

[Arvin Meyer [MVP]]

Am wondering what are the key parameters that would make the decision
between
Access vs SQL Server.

Clearly if one is going to exceed the Access size limits.

Given security direction of Access07 then for a new install security
itself
could be a reason to go with SQL Server.

I would welcome other friendly advice from those of you comfortable with
both products.

Part 2: If you are SQL Servier : Is the best front end Access? Or is
there
no advantage vs creating it with Visual.net? Further friendly advice on
this
point is also welcomed.

I've been developing database applications for more than 15 years and have
formed very definite opinions. I think the differences in the 2 engines are
distinct and fairly easy to decide.

I've built applications with up to 53 concurrent users having 75
connections. Based on that experience, I might try another 25 users as long
as they weren't too actively writing and editing. However, the Access/JET
specification limit of 255 users is way too ambitious.

The largest physical database that I've ever worked on was a 30 GB (that's
right gigabyte) image database which was kluged together from 78 back-ends
of varying sizes. I was always afraid that it would crash and lose all the
data, but it never did. Still, a single 500 MB back-end is what I'd consider
a limiting factor.

There is not the slightest question in my mind that if security is a major
factor, I'd want a SQL-Server database engine. By definition, any server
based engine is more likely to be able to maintain security. Keep in mind,
that despite protestations to the contrary, if someone wants in badly
enough, they'll probably succeed. Also keep in mind that every database does
not require extensive security. In fact, most of the databases that I've
written real world security was neither wanted nor needed. If you have
sensitive personal or corporate data, please do not even think of anything
but the strongest security that you can find.

Now for front-ends. There is not even the slightest hestitation in my mind
recommending Access over any .NET language as a front-end for any
application which runs on a LAN, no exceptions. A WAN, howver, is another
beast. If there is more than 20 or 30 concurrent users, you'll need to use a
web front-end. For less than that, I prefer Terminal Services with an Access
front-end. The security available with a Terminal Server is usually more
than sufficient to overcome any problems with Access security. I replaced a
$225,000 ASP.NET application with a $29,000 Access front-end running on a
Terminal Server. This is typical of the kinds of savings you can expect. The
Access application is faster and far more reliable than the .NET application
ever was.

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

ADP runs -FINE- over a WAN.. or wireless.. or VPN.. or the PUBLIC
FRIGGIN INTERNET
ADP runs -FINE- over a WAN.. or wireless.. or VPN.. or the PUBLIC
FRIGGIN INTERNET
ADP runs -FINE- over a WAN.. or wireless.. or VPN.. or the PUBLIC
FRIGGIN INTERNET
ADP runs -FINE- over a WAN.. or wireless.. or VPN.. or the PUBLIC
FRIGGIN INTERNET
ADP runs -FINE- over a WAN.. or wireless.. or VPN.. or the PUBLIC
FRIGGIN INTERNET
ADP runs -FINE- over a WAN.. or wireless.. or VPN.. or the PUBLIC
FRIGGIN INTERNET

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

If 'Security is a major factor' then how can you reccomend an Access
File Format that:
a) doesnt have any securty before 2007
b) doesn't have any security _WITH_ 2007
c) above and beyond that - can't protect against a simple dictionary
attack
d) can't keep your dbrection up for more than a day without rebooting
a file server

Access is a fucking joke unless you reccomend ADP.

And Terminal Services? ARE YOU KIDDING ME? How much is a TS cal;
fucktard? Seriously? How much is it?

Spend your money where it belongs. SQL Server. And VPN. Terminal
Services and Jet is a _COMPLETE_ waste of money.

What if someone wants to import a spreadsheet from their home office
PS to a database? What you make them email it around?? ROFL

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

uh he wants decent performance and enterprise caliber reliability. he
wants powerful tools. extensible platforms.

Unless he specifically says otherwise-- that is my assumption. Deal
with it.

Now stick that in your ___ and smoke it

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

I do agree that Access is _MUCH_ better ROI then ASP.net or any .NET
or SharePoint _CRAP_.
Access ROCKS!

But Access ain't a friggin database. It hasn't been for a decade.
Access is MERELY a front end to SQL Server.
I just don't think that using a format (MDB or XML ROFL) that hasn't
a) had a single improvement in 15 years
b) has no future
c) it's main library hasn't been included with Windows or MDAC for a
decade.

I don't think that an unreliable database like JET can compete with
omniscient, omnipresent SQL SERVER.

File, New, Project (existing data) connect to your SQL db.

If you don't know how to fill in the box that says 'servername' and
the box that says 'database name' then go take a class on SQL Server
at your nearest community college.

Do _ANY_ colleges teach Access anymore? HELL NO.

Colleges teach SQL Server because it's the most popular relational
database / platform.. on the most popular OS (Windows). and I'll bet
that MS buys Sybase soon and lets people run SQL Server on Linux /
Unix. It's _BOUND_ to happen.

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

ADP runs -FINE- over a WAN.. or wireless.. or VPN.. or the PUBLIC
FRIGGIN INTERNET

As do MDBs linked to SQL Server.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

Am wondering what are the key parameters that would make the decision between
Access vs SQL Server.

Note that Aaron's answer to just about every question is SQL Server
and ADPs. No matter how appropriate his answer.

The biggest problems are in stability of the hardware and the number
of users making changes. Reporting or inquiry only users don't make a
difference. Editing/Updating users have been successfully in the ten
to fifteen range.

However your big concern is how mission critical is the data and can
the data be rekeyed if you lose a day.

Mission critical means can you afford to lose an hour if the database
is down? Frequently the data can't be rekeyed. A classic example
being a call centre where you are receiving incoming calls.

Losing a day means that if you have to restore from backup do your
users have the paperwork in place so they can rekey the data? Are
there enough staff to re-enter that data?

I recall a posting by someone working for a large casino/hotel
operation in the mid to late 80s stating to what lengths they spend
over a million dollars duplicating their IBM S/38 mini-computer in
another off site location with data inserts and updates being copied
from the main system to the backup system in under a second.

Thier attitude was that they could never afford to lose a room
reservation. Imagine the mess if they lost a days worth of phone
calls. <shudder> And the newspaper stories by the upset clients.
And expenses while they placate the customers so they don't go to the
newspapers. <smile>

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/

 

[Tom Wickerath]

Aaron,

Do _ANY_ colleges teach Access anymore? HELL NO.

Once again, you've managed to show just how ignorant you truly are. I taught
an Access course at Bellevue Community College for three years! And, yes,
they are still offering Access training at BCC:
http://bellevuecollege.edu/catalog/BTS.asp

BTS 168 Database Applications • 5 CR
Develops beginning through intermediate database skills using software such
as Microsoft Access on the personal computer. Prerequisite: BTS 161 or
equivalent experience recommended.

BTS 268 Database Applications: Advanced • 5 CR
Course covers additional user interface features of a relational database.
Advanced Wizards are used to create a user interface. Topics include action
queries, macros, modules, switchboards, and startup options. Prerequisite:
BTS 168.


So is Seattle Community Colleges:
http://www.sccd.ctc.edu/custom.aspx...eList&col=All&searchBy=Keyword&keyword=Access

And Bellingham Technical College (CISA 102 and CISA 104):
http://www.btc.ctc.edu/Courses/ContinuingEducation-Groups.asp?Group=8

I could go on, looking at other colleges in your area, but I hope you get
the point. I do share your opinion on Access with SharePoint. That's one of
the few things that you are right on.


Tom Wickerath
Microsoft Access MVP
http://www.accessmvp.com/TWickerath/
http://www.access.qbuilt.com/html/expert_contributors.html
__________________________________________

I do agree that Access is _MUCH_ better ROI then ASP.net or any .NET
or SharePoint _CRAP_.
Access ROCKS!

But Access ain't a friggin database. It hasn't been for a decade.
Access is MERELY a front end to SQL Server.
I just don't think that using a format (MDB or XML ROFL) that hasn't
a) had a single improvement in 15 years
b) has no future
c) it's main library hasn't been included with Windows or MDAC for a
decade.

I don't think that an unreliable database like JET can compete with
omniscient, omnipresent SQL SERVER.

File, New, Project (existing data) connect to your SQL db.

If you don't know how to fill in the box that says 'servername' and
the box that says 'database name' then go take a class on SQL Server
at your nearest community college.

Do _ANY_ colleges teach Access anymore? HELL NO.

Colleges teach SQL Server because it's the most popular relational
database / platform.. on the most popular OS (Windows). and I'll bet
that MS buys Sybase soon and lets people run SQL Server on Linux /
Unix. It's _BOUND_ to happen.

 

[George]

Aaron:

Please give serious consideration to my prior request that you tend to your
own personal health issues, and the sooner the better. Posts like this one
make me increasingly concerned for you.

I've redacted this post of yours to leave only these two sentences, from two
different paragraphs. Please, give CAREFUL consideration to the direct
contradiction you make of your own words, and, more importantly, what it
says about how well you are handling things these days. It's not just about
causing problems in the newsgroups for others. It's a clear signal that
you're having trouble focusing your thoughts.

Life is too short and too pleasant to waste it the way you seem to be doing.

George


=========================================================================================
message

......
I've been using Access every day for a decade. I know it like the
back of my hand

.....

I think that anyone using MS Access for _ANY_DATABASE_NEEDS_ should be
out of a job immediately. They should be homeless; drinking wine out
of a paper bag on the side of the road.

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

George;

I don't contradict _ANYTHING_ sorry that you have fallen for their
ploys..

re:
I've been using Access every day for a decade. I know it like the
back of my hand

YES I AM TALKING ABOUT ACCESS DATA PROJECTS.

re:
I think that anyone using MS Access for _ANY_DATABASE_NEEDS_ should
be
out of a job immediately. They should be homeless; drinking wine out
of a paper bag on the side of the road.

YES ANYONE USING JET SHOULD BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY. JET IS AN OBSOLETE
FORMAT; AND IT HAS BEEN FOR A DECADE.

-Aaron

 

[George]

Aaron:

You can revise your statements after the fact in an attempt to make it seem
as if you didn't contradict yourself, but that is a transparent ploy, at
best.

If you had meant using Access Data Projects, you should have said so. If you
had meant that is anyone using MS Access for any Database needs--except for
the case of ADPs--you could have said that as well. You said neither.

Instead, you chose to say what you said, possibly because you didn't really
think through the implications of your contradictory statements, or possibly
because accuracy and truth just don't seem all that important to you when
you are bent on attacking someone.

If you could just take time to ensure that what you want to say is actually
what you end up writing, you'll present a far more sympathetic picture of
yourself and possibly even gain some small measure of credibility as a
source of information on MS products. As it is, such sloppiness makes it
hard to take you seriously.


message
George;

I don't contradict _ANYTHING_ sorry that you have fallen for their
ploys..

re:
I've been using Access every day for a decade. I know it like the
back of my hand

YES I AM TALKING ABOUT ACCESS DATA PROJECTS.

re:
I think that anyone using MS Access for _ANY_DATABASE_NEEDS_ should
be
out of a job immediately. They should be homeless; drinking wine out
of a paper bag on the side of the road.

YES ANYONE USING JET SHOULD BE FIRED IMMEDIATELY. JET IS AN OBSOLETE
FORMAT; AND IT HAS BEEN FOR A DECADE.

-Aaron

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

1999?

What year is it, hooker?

-Aaron

You were reaching puberty a decade ago you wart on a pig's butt. There
were no ADPs a decade ago, moron. If you'd spend some time reading
something besides Hustler magazine you might have known that.- Hide quotedtext -

- Show quoted text -

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

dude are you retarded?

I know lots about SQL Server. I am a certified DBA. I've got a dozen
years working with database fulltime.

Just because _I_ am smart enough to not use a database that doesn't do
these things
BLOAT
CRASH
UNABLE TO ADD ANOTHER USER
UNABLE TO STACK QUERY ON TOP OF QUERY
UNABLE TO CLEANUP LOCKING PROBLEMS WITHOUT REBOOTING FILESERVERS
UNABLE TO CREATE A SINGLE TIER FOR YOUR DATA

You don't need a front end, back end and tempdb tier in JET.
You need SQL Server.

DOES THAT MAKE ME WRONG?

-Aaron

 

[a a r o n . k e m p f]

and

a) I said I've been using _ACCESS_ for a decade. It's actually been
more like 12 years.
b) I was liberated and saw the light with ADP about a decade ago.

Learn to read, dog.

-Aaron