Advice for managing / formatting long document

[SandJ]

I’m using a Powerbook with Panther.
My Word Version: 2004

My experience of Word has been limited to opening a new document and
writing a letter or two, with occasional curses when things didn’t
’work’.

However, I have taken on an enormous job that requires a professional
knowledge of the programme. I have been reading everything I can, but
would like some advice on how to approach this job:

I have a number of long word documents (1 - 200 pages long, some with
images), prepared on different systems and by different people that I
have to ’make into one’ long document which looks like it has been
created by one person - i.e cohesive look and feel and language. Some
content is to be omitted or moved around and separated, to be put in
different parts of the new document.

This "one" document will be shared and worked on by three different
people (including myself), on different platforms and with different
versions of Word. Ultimately a PDF will be created for emailing the
document to others. It’s possible we will have to send out the Word
doc too.

I will be the person responsible for the formatting of the document,
although it’s possible the others will have do some as well. The plan
is for the content to be finalized, and then I take this and create
formatting on the final document.


However, in order to avoid reformatting as we work on the document I
presume I should (this all based on the two excellent articles- Clive
Huggan’s Bend Word to Your Will and John McGhie’s Word Templates
document):

- where I can, copy and paste text from the original, content worked
on documents as ’unformatted’ and then apply my styles to my document
specific template
- Attach this template to the document and send to each person working
on its final form
- Request that the "Automatically update styles on open" box be
unchecked
- Use unique styles throughout, (except default Heading styles that
come with Word)
- Not basing any style on "Normal" style


Questions:
Am I on the right track?

If I use unique styles, and the document has to be emailed to other
people outside of our working group who won’t want to deal with
handling a .dot document as well, will the document still retain as
much of the formatting as possible?

We do not know what the ultimate printer driver is. What is the best
way to handle this?

Thanks in advance,
SandJ

 

[John McGhie]

Hi SandJ:

OK, stick close to us, we have a lot to tell you

I am currently doing what you ask as we speak. I have about 800 documents
out to various authors and I am using an automated routine to stitch them
all together for publication into a tender response book totalling about
2,500 pages.

The only comment I would make off the bat is: Use the built-in styles
wherever you can. The main reason for this is that you get far fewer
problems with styles not existing in the document.

I am using a lot of macros: let me know if you are skilled in VBA. If not,
we will have to do it for you

While it is useful to avoid basing styles on Normal, it is no longer
essential.

For STYLES, A document makes no further reference to its template after it
has been created or attached. So yes, your documents will retain all of
their formatting if they are detached from their template. My experience of
having to distribute and version-control templates among 40 contributing
authors in the past two months indicates that this is something you would do
well to avoid. If you can place the template on a network location from
which everyone can use it, that will be much easier to handle.

The printer driver is not an issue until you print the document, don't
concern yourself with that now. Before you publish, make sure you know what
it is and install the correct version of it.

Your big problem is going to be getting users to apply the correct styles in
the correct manner. I use macros for that, to ensure that the style is
correctly applied to the whole paragraph. You cannot persuade unskilled
users to run with their paragraph marks showing. And if they don't, they
can apply styles only to the "text" of a paragraph. Modern versions of Word
then convert the paragraph style into a Character style of the same name and
apply only the character properties.

This is a severe exposure in a professional long document. The condition is
difficult to detect and difficult to correct. But it really mucks up your
document

Sorry, I am five working days from publication date and I should be getting
to work: get back to us with a working email address, I need to send you
some templates.

Cheers

I‚m using a Powerbook with Panther.
My Word Version: 2004

My experience of Word has been limited to opening a new document and
writing a letter or two, with occasional curses when things didn‚t
‚work‚.

However, I have taken on an enormous job that requires a professional
knowledge of the programme. I have been reading everything I can, but
would like some advice on how to approach this job:

I have a number of long word documents (1 - 200 pages long, some with
images), prepared on different systems and by different people that I
have to ‚make into one‚ long document which looks like it has been
created by one person - i.e cohesive look and feel and language. Some
content is to be omitted or moved around and separated, to be put in
different parts of the new document.

This "one" document will be shared and worked on by three different
people (including myself), on different platforms and with different
versions of Word. Ultimately a PDF will be created for emailing the
document to others. It‚s possible we will have to send out the Word
doc too.

I will be the person responsible for the formatting of the document,
although it‚s possible the others will have do some as well. The plan
is for the content to be finalized, and then I take this and create
formatting on the final document.


However, in order to avoid reformatting as we work on the document I
presume I should (this all based on the two excellent articles- Clive
Huggan‚s Bend Word to Your Will and John McGhie‚s Word Templates
document):

- where I can, copy and paste text from the original, content worked
on documents as ‚unformatted‚ and then apply my styles to my document
specific template
- Attach this template to the document and send to each person working
on its final form
- Request that the "Automatically update styles on open" box be
unchecked
- Use unique styles throughout, (except default Heading styles that
come with Word)
- Not basing any style on "Normal" style


Questions:
Am I on the right track?

If I use unique styles, and the document has to be emailed to other
people outside of our working group who won‚t want to deal with
handling a .dot document as well, will the document still retain as
much of the formatting as possible?

We do not know what the ultimate printer driver is. What is the best
way to handle this?

Thanks in advance,
SandJ

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[SandJ]

Hi SandJ:

OK, stick close to us, we have a lot to tell you

I am currently doing what you ask as we speak. I have about
800 documents
out to various authors and I am using an automated routine to
stitch them
all together for publication into a tender response book
totalling about
2,500 pages.

The only comment I would make off the bat is: Use the
built-in styles
wherever you can. The main reason for this is that you get
far fewer
problems with styles not existing in the document.

I am using a lot of macros: let me know if you are skilled in
VBA. If not,
we will have to do it for you

While it is useful to avoid basing styles on Normal, it is no
longer
essential.

For STYLES, A document makes no further reference to its
template after it
has been created or attached. So yes, your documents will
retain all of
their formatting if they are detached from their template. My
experience of
having to distribute and version-control templates among 40
contributing
authors in the past two months indicates that this is
something you would do
well to avoid. If you can place the template on a network
location from
which everyone can use it, that will be much easier to handle.

The printer driver is not an issue until you print the
document, don't
concern yourself with that now. Before you publish, make sure
you know what
it is and install the correct version of it.

Your big problem is going to be getting users to apply the
correct styles in
the correct manner. I use macros for that, to ensure that the
style is
correctly applied to the whole paragraph. You cannot persuade
unskilled
users to run with their paragraph marks showing. And if they
don't, they
can apply styles only to the "text" of a paragraph. Modern
versions of Word
then convert the paragraph style into a Character style of the
same name and
apply only the character properties.

This is a severe exposure in a professional long document.
The condition is
difficult to detect and difficult to correct. But it really
mucks up your
document

Sorry, I am five working days from publication date and I
should be getting
to work: get back to us with a working email address, I need
to send you
some templates.

Cheers




--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please
do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

John,

I’m bowled over by your support. Thank you. If there is anything I can
do in return...(I’m excellent at Photoshop & have a fair amount of
website design/creation skills).

Since I last posted I have decided that I will be the only one
applying formatting, unless there is some kind of emergency.

However, I will not be in control of the document being printed. The
final formatted document will be emailed to my brother as both .doc
and PDF and he will be responsible for printing and further
disseminating. The document is primarily for distribution via email.

It’s possible this document will be sent to someone outside our 3
person work group to take care of printing.

If I am to be sole "Formatter" then I presume only I need to have
access to a document specific template. You tell me I do not need to
email this template together with the document if I send it to the
others for review, correct?

Regarding using built in styles, can I rename them, or does this
defeat the purpose?

No, I am not skilled in VBA. I planned on applying styles via a new
toolbar with buttons for the styles as per Clive Huggan’s suggestion
on BWTYW, and keystrokes from an added comma and short title to the
style title. (Again, does this also defeat the purpose of retaining
default styles?)

Why is it no longer essential not to base styles on "normal"? I do
want to avoid the document being reformatted as it gets sent onto
others who are not in ’our group’.

Luckily I don’t need to index, only TOC, and I’ll need to create
sections for each of the chapters as they will have chapter specific
headers.

On reviewing all the working documents I have ascertained what kind of
and number of styles I need to define ( some new ones may crop up as I
go along, but I think I’ve got it down).

Regarding the Template.

I love the formatting of your "Creating a Template" template, and
hope to, um, borrow a lot from this. If you suggest anything better
I’m all ears. To expediate things I’m not sure if it’s is better that
I use your original template and make modifications, or make my own.
I have a 12 day deadline, to at least create a good quality first
draft.

My email address is sandrajensen AT @ AT earthlink.net. [[MacForumz
editor: remove the obvious AT and spaces]]

All the best,

Sandra

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Sandra:

I will reply here (for the benefit of others) and email you a template.

Since I last posted I have decided that I will be the only one
applying formatting, unless there is some kind of emergency.

That's fine, although not necessary.

If I am to be sole "Formatter" then I presume only I need to have
access to a document specific template. You tell me I do not need to
email this template together with the document if I send it to the
others for review, correct?

That's correct, PROVIDED that YOU create the "shell" documents from the
template for the other authors.

Regarding using built in styles, can I rename them, or does this
defeat the purpose?

You cannot, technically, re-name a built-in style. You can add aliases to
its name. I recommend against doing either. The reason is that people who
work in Word a lot get into the habit of using the built-in styles, and
everyone pretty much uses them the same way. If you do not rename styles,
you get a lot less problems with training and from people copying text in
from other documents.

When you begin processing text with macros, things move a lot easier if you
know what the style names are going to be. I have a routine in my templates
that forces the working style set back to its original names, so I know what
the hell is going on in the document

No, I am not skilled in VBA. I planned on applying styles via a new
toolbar with buttons for the styles as per Clive Huggan‚s suggestion
on BWTYW, and keystrokes from an added comma and short title to the
style title. (Again, does this also defeat the purpose of retaining
default styles?)

The template I will send you has buttons set up to call macros to apply the
most common styles. Clive and I diverge slightly on the subject of
keystrokes. He gets away with it because he is the only user using his
template and he never has to send it anywhere. I have a poor track record
of getting keystroke definitions to "hold" in a template that gets a high
level of change and is being maintained in 20-odd instances on 20 different
workstations.

Why is it no longer essential not to base styles on "normal"? I do
want to avoid the document being reformatted as it gets sent onto
others who are not in ‚our group‚.

Because Word is now stable about maintaining the formatting of a style once
it has been defined. I still break the link to Normal style for most of my
styles because it is good working practice. But it's no longer so
necessary.

The problem you can get is this: Let's say Normal is Times New Roman font.
Let's say you define Heading 1 to be 20 points before, ten after, and bold.
But you forget to set the font name.

If someone then changes Normal to Palatino, your Heading 1 could potentially
change to Palatino. If on the other hand, you set Heading 1 to be Arial
(which Microsoft does as the default) then if Normal changes, Heading 1 will
not change because the font name has been specified in heading 1.

Style inheritance only works for properties that have not been specified in
the current style. If you did not set the right margin, it would inherit
from Normal style. Once you do, it is immune to any change in Normal. This
is now stable.

Luckily I don‚t need to index, only TOC, and I‚ll need to create
sections for each of the chapters as they will have chapter specific
headers.

I would investigate the STYLEREF field before I started creating new
sections. I have three section breaks in my 2,500 page document
Section breaks add complexity and potential for trouble: try to avoid them.
Using STYLEREF, you do not need a new section break for a new chapter,
unless you want to change the page numbering.

I love the formatting of your "Creating a Template" template, and
hope to, um, borrow a lot from this. If you suggest anything better
I‚m all ears. To expediate things I‚m not sure if it‚s is better that
I use your original template and make modifications, or make my own.
I have a 12 day deadline, to at least create a good quality first
draft.

Make your own: that way you get to set everything and you KNOW what you have
set it to. Get a document right, then save it as a template to start.
Twelve days is extremely tight to create a template if you do not have much
experience.

Hope this helps

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[SandJ]

Hi Sandra:

I will reply here (for the benefit of others) and email you a
template.



That's fine, although not necessary.


That's correct, PROVIDED that YOU create the "shell" documents
from the
template for the other authors.


You cannot, technically, re-name a built-in style. You can
add aliases to
its name. I recommend against doing either. The reason is
that people who
work in Word a lot get into the habit of using the built-in
styles, and
everyone pretty much uses them the same way. If you do not
rename styles,
you get a lot less problems with training and from people
copying text in
from other documents.

When you begin processing text with macros, things move a lot
easier if you
know what the style names are going to be. I have a routine
in my templates
that forces the working style set back to its original names,
so I know what
the hell is going on in the document


The template I will send you has buttons set up to call macros
to apply the
most common styles. Clive and I diverge slightly on the
subject of
keystrokes. He gets away with it because he is the only user
using his
template and he never has to send it anywhere. I have a poor
track record
of getting keystroke definitions to "hold" in a template that
gets a high
level of change and is being maintained in 20-odd instances on
20 different
workstations.


Because Word is now stable about maintaining the formatting of
a style once
it has been defined. I still break the link to Normal style
for most of my
styles because it is good working practice. But it's no
longer so
necessary.

The problem you can get is this: Let's say Normal is Times
New Roman font.
Let's say you define Heading 1 to be 20 points before, ten
after, and bold.
But you forget to set the font name.

If someone then changes Normal to Palatino, your Heading 1
could potentially
change to Palatino. If on the other hand, you set Heading 1
to be Arial
(which Microsoft does as the default) then if Normal changes,
Heading 1 will
not change because the font name has been specified in heading
1.

Style inheritance only works for properties that have not been
specified in
the current style. If you did not set the right margin, it
would inherit
from Normal style. Once you do, it is immune to any change in
Normal. This
is now stable.


I would investigate the STYLEREF field before I started
creating new
sections. I have three section breaks in my 2,500 page
document
Section breaks add complexity and potential for trouble: try
to avoid them.
Using STYLEREF, you do not need a new section break for a new
chapter,
unless you want to change the page numbering.


Make your own: that way you get to set everything and you KNOW
what you have
set it to. Get a document right, then save it as a template
to start.
Twelve days is extremely tight to create a template if you do
not have much
experience.

Hope this helps

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please
do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

Hi John,

Thank you for the macro style buttons. Very useful.

I’ve just had a thoroughly brain splitting day creating most of my
template.

One question for now -

If I want all my new chapters on the right hand (odd) page, is there a
way to do this without using section breaks? (or by forcing the issue
on my document using manual page breaks which I’ve read are not wise?)

Thanks again,

Sandra

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Sandra:

There are two ways to force a right page: one is with a dynamic "Blank
Page", the other is with a section break.

A section break is more conventional. A dynamic blank page is described
here: http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/InsEvnPgEndChap.htm

I believe there is a sample in the AutoText collection of the template I
sent you.

Hard page breaks are not a "bad idea", they are simple, robust and easy.
The "bad idea" is putting them in where they may have to be moved.

If you use "Keep With Next" to tell Word where you DON'T want a page break,
then Word will automatically paginate the document correctly for you
regardless of any editing that transpires. If you force your page turnovers
with hard page breaks, every time you edit the document you have to start at
the front and work your way all the way to the back moving the hard page
breaks.

However, you are never going to have to move the page break immediately in
front of a Chapter. So a hard page break is fine there. I normally reserve
Heading 1 for the Chapter Title, and code "Page Break Before" into the style
for Heading 1. This always produces a "new Page" for each chapter.

I then embed an Automatic Blank Page immediately before the Chapter Title.
That inserts another page break if required to ensure that the following
heading lands on a right page. You simply need to remember to Update Fields
before you print. That's easiest done by setting your Preferences>Print to
"Update Fields".

If you use a section break, the page Word inserts is a totally blank sheet
of paper. It looks like an accident, it stuffs up your page numbering, and
some printer drivers will suppress it. The AutoText I sent you inserts a
header, footer, page number, and "This page is intentionally blank."

Hope this helps

Hi John,

Thank you for the macro style buttons. Very useful.

I‚ve just had a thoroughly brain splitting day creating most of my
template.

One question for now -

If I want all my new chapters on the right hand (odd) page, is there a
way to do this without using section breaks? (or by forcing the issue
on my document using manual page breaks which I‚ve read are not wise?)

Thanks again,

Sandra

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[SandJ]

Hi Sandra:

There are two ways to force a right page: one is with a
dynamic "Blank
Page", the other is with a section break.

A section break is more conventional. A dynamic blank page is
described
here:
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/InsEvnPgEndChap.htm

I believe there is a sample in the AutoText collection of the
template I
sent you.

Hard page breaks are not a "bad idea", they are simple, robust
and easy.
The "bad idea" is putting them in where they may have to be
moved.

If you use "Keep With Next" to tell Word where you DON'T want
a page break,
then Word will automatically paginate the document correctly
for you
regardless of any editing that transpires. If you force your
page turnovers
with hard page breaks, every time you edit the document you
have to start at
the front and work your way all the way to the back moving the
hard page
breaks.

However, you are never going to have to move the page break
immediately in
front of a Chapter. So a hard page break is fine there. I
normally reserve
Heading 1 for the Chapter Title, and code "Page Break Before"
into the style
for Heading 1. This always produces a "new Page" for each
chapter.

I then embed an Automatic Blank Page immediately before the
Chapter Title.
That inserts another page break if required to ensure that the
following
heading lands on a right page. You simply need to remember to
Update Fields
before you print. That's easiest done by setting your
Preferences>Print to
"Update Fields".

If you use a section break, the page Word inserts is a totally
blank sheet
of paper. It looks like an accident, it stuffs up your page
numbering, and
some printer drivers will suppress it. The AutoText I sent
you inserts a
header, footer, page number, and "This page is intentionally
blank."

Hope this helps



&nbsp;>> Hi Sandra:
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> I will reply here (for the benefit of others) and
email you a
&nbsp;>> template.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> On 5/11/04 4:26 AM, in article
&nbsp;>> [email protected], "SandJ"
&nbsp;>> &lt;[email protected]&gt; wrote:
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> Since I last posted I have decided that I will
be the only
&nbsp;>> one
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> applying formatting, unless there is some kind
of emergency.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> That's fine, although not necessary.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> If I am to be sole "Formatter" then I presume
only I need to
&nbsp;>> have
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> access to a document specific template. You
tell me I do not
&nbsp;>> need to
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> email this template together with the document
if I send it
&nbsp;>> to the
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> others for review, correct?
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> That's correct, PROVIDED that YOU create the "shell"
documents
&nbsp;>> from the
&nbsp;>> template for the other authors.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> Regarding using built in styles, can I rename
them, or does
&nbsp;>> this
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> defeat the purpose?
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> You cannot, technically, re-name a built-in style.
You can
&nbsp;>> add aliases to
&nbsp;>> its name. I recommend against doing either. The
reason is
&nbsp;>> that people who
&nbsp;>> work in Word a lot get into the habit of using the
built-in
&nbsp;>> styles, and
&nbsp;>> everyone pretty much uses them the same way. If you
do not
&nbsp;>> rename styles,
&nbsp;>> you get a lot less problems with training and from
people
&nbsp;>> copying text in
&nbsp;>> from other documents.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> When you begin processing text with macros, things
move a lot
&nbsp;>> easier if you
&nbsp;>> know what the style names are going to be. I have a
routine
&nbsp;>> in my templates
&nbsp;>> that forces the working style set back to its
original names,
&nbsp;>> so I know what
&nbsp;>> the hell is going on in the document
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> No, I am not skilled in VBA. I planned on
applying styles
&nbsp;>> via a new
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> toolbar with buttons for the styles as per
Clive Hugganâ•˚s
&nbsp;>> suggestion
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> on BWTYW, and keystrokes from an added comma
and short title
&nbsp;>> to the
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> style title. (Again, does this also defeat the
purpose of
&nbsp;>> retaining
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> default styles?)
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> The template I will send you has buttons set up to
call macros
&nbsp;>> to apply the
&nbsp;>> most common styles. Clive and I diverge slightly on
the
&nbsp;>> subject of
&nbsp;>> keystrokes. He gets away with it because he is the
only user
&nbsp;>> using his
&nbsp;>> template and he never has to send it anywhere. I
have a poor
&nbsp;>> track record
&nbsp;>> of getting keystroke definitions to "hold" in a
template that
&nbsp;>> gets a high
&nbsp;>> level of change and is being maintained in 20-odd
instances on
&nbsp;>> 20 different
&nbsp;>> workstations.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> Why is it no longer essential not to base
styles on
&nbsp;>> "normal"? I do
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> want to avoid the document being reformatted
as it gets sent
&nbsp;>> onto
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> others who are not in â•˚our groupâ•˚.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> Because Word is now stable about maintaining the
formatting of
&nbsp;>> a style once
&nbsp;>> it has been defined. I still break the link to
Normal style
&nbsp;>> for most of my
&nbsp;>> styles because it is good working practice. But it's
no
&nbsp;>> longer so
&nbsp;>> necessary.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> The problem you can get is this: Let's say Normal is
Times
&nbsp;>> New Roman font.
&nbsp;>> Let's say you define Heading 1 to be 20 points
before, ten
&nbsp;>> after, and bold.
&nbsp;>> But you forget to set the font name.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> If someone then changes Normal to Palatino, your
Heading 1
&nbsp;>> could potentially
&nbsp;>> change to Palatino. If on the other hand, you set
Heading 1
&nbsp;>> to be Arial
&nbsp;>> (which Microsoft does as the default) then if Normal
changes,
&nbsp;>> Heading 1 will
&nbsp;>> not change because the font name has been specified
in heading
&nbsp;>> 1.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> Style inheritance only works for properties that have
not been
&nbsp;>> specified in
&nbsp;>> the current style. If you did not set the right
margin, it
&nbsp;>> would inherit
&nbsp;>> from Normal style. Once you do, it is immune to any
change in
&nbsp;>> Normal. This
&nbsp;>> is now stable.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> Luckily I donâ•˚t need to index, only TOC,
and Iâ•˚ll need
&nbsp;>> to create
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> sections for each of the chapters as they will
have chapter
&nbsp;>> specific
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> headers.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> I would investigate the STYLEREF field before I
started
&nbsp;>> creating new
&nbsp;>> sections. I have three section breaks in my 2,500
page
&nbsp;>> document
&nbsp;>> Section breaks add complexity and potential for
trouble: try
&nbsp;>> to avoid them.
&nbsp;>> Using STYLEREF, you do not need a new section break
for a new
&nbsp;>> chapter,
&nbsp;>> unless you want to change the page numbering.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> I love the formatting of your "Creating a
Template"
&nbsp;>> template, and
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> hope to, um, borrow a lot from this. If you
suggest anything
&nbsp;>> better
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> Iâ•˚m all ears. To expediate things
Iâ•˚m not sure if itâ•˚s
&nbsp;>> is better that
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> I use your original template and make
modifications, or make
&nbsp;>> my own.
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> I have a 12 day deadline, to at least create a
good quality
&nbsp;>> first
&nbsp;&nbsp;>>> draft.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> Make your own: that way you get to set everything and
you KNOW
&nbsp;>> what you have
&nbsp;>> set it to. Get a document right, then save it as a
template
&nbsp;>> to start.
&nbsp;>> Twelve days is extremely tight to create a template
if you do
&nbsp;>> not have much
&nbsp;>> experience.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> Hope this helps
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> --
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread.
Please
&nbsp;>> do not email
&nbsp;>> me unless I ask you to.
&nbsp;>>
&nbsp;>> John McGhie &lt;[email protected]&gt;
&nbsp;>> Consultant Technical Writer
&nbsp;>> Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please
do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

Thanks John,
The dynamic blank page looks like the best option.

I have an image use question - considering the specifics of this
project - I’m working on a mac; the file will be emailed to others on
PCs; I don’t have control over final printing; long document (about
300 pages).

There are a number of images and graphics to be used in this document.

- What is the best file format to use ( I can do all
converting/resizing in Photoshop)
- How best to format. I believe inline with text is best, however I
have set up a deep left hand indent to my body text, and I would like
to offset some images so they fall half in the text and half in the
wide left margin, and have the text run around the image. I will also
need to place a caption or an photo credit underneath the image ( none
of which need to be referenced by a TOC or elsewhere).

I believe floating graphics are difficult to control.

All suggestions appreciated very much, and thanks again for all your
help.

Sandra

 

[SandJ]

Thanks John,
The dynamic blank page looks like the best option.

I have an image use question - considering the specifics of
this project - I'm working on a mac; the file will be emailed
to others on PCs; I don't have control over final printing;
long document (about 300 pages).

There are a number of images and graphics to be used in this
document.
- What is the best file format to use ( I can do all
converting/resizing in Photoshop)
- How best to format. I believe inline with text is best,
however I have set up a deep left hand indent to my body text,
and I would like to offset some images so they fall half in
the text and half in the wide left margin, and have the text
run around the image. I will also need to place a caption or
an photo credit underneath the image ( none of which need to
be referenced by a TOC or elsewhere).

I believe floating graphics are difficult to control.

All suggestions appreciated very much, and thanks again for
all your help.

Sandra

Replying to myself here -
I just read the topic posted by Darryl with postings by John and
Philip on the issue of file size bloating and graphics formats. So my
question about what file format to use is somewhat redundant, if no
less confusing. I have all your issues, Darryl, including my document
being turned into a website.

All the images I have to use are already imbedded in other Word
documents (pc created). I’m presuming I’d best just copy and paste
over to my document .. and hope for the best.

However I’d still like advice on placement/layout of these graphics,
if I want runnaround text. Perhaps I should stop trying to use this
programme as if it was QuarkXpress..... (which seems to be what is
asked of me).

Thanks,

Sandra

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Sandi:

However I‚d still like advice on placement/layout of these graphics,
if I want runnaround text. Perhaps I should stop trying to use this
programme as if it was QuarkXpress..... (which seems to be what is
asked of me).

Yes, absolutely you should! That's terrible...

Use it as if it were FrameMaker You will get a much better run.

Seriously, when people ask me "What's the best book to study to learn
advanced Microsoft Word techniques?" I tell them that if they can lay their
hands on a copy of the Adobe FrameMaker Handbook, that's the one to use.

It's totally focused on producing long and/or complex documents, which is
where doco pros make their living. And everything you read about in there
has an equivalent in Word. Usually, a close equivalent. Often, if you
simply close your eyes and pretend it *is* FrameMaker, everything will work
perfectly.

Much to my surprise, the Project Director on my current contract today
signed off on a plan to implement fully automated production of my current
tender document. This is a 2,500 page document, going to PDF, Print, CD-ROM
and HTML. The team has some 40 authors and six editors. The Authors are
untrained business specialists so you can imagine the mess that is coming
in.

I started out producing "some tools" to assist people with the more complex
rescue operations necessitated by having untrained authors mangling
production documents.

The toolset grew and grew and grew. Tonight we did a trial run to press
with 2,400 pages compiled from 450 subdocuments in Word. Total time to PDF
is around 15 minutes, including generating 12 tables of contents.

The level of automation we have achieved has far exceeded my wildest
expectations. This is *why* I recommend Word as your weapon for production
of large-scale documentation. Other products require far more time, and a
large cast of highly-skilled professionals to do what Word can.

I should mention that I am the only one on the project with "professional
level" Microsoft Word skills. The Editor today could not figure out why
some text would not print. It was behind a graphic... And she's the next
most skilled Word user on the team

Don't give up, Sandra. There are plenty of people in here who can help you
out: several of us do this kind of thing for a living. Keep asking. I
personally will have more time to help you out next week (press day is the
16th...).

Oh, yeah, that's right... You asked a question I need to get my head
around what kind of graphics you are using. The industry standard is JPEG
for bitmaps, but I prefer PNG. Under most circumstances it is slightly
smaller and much less lossy. For vector art, the industry standard is EPS,
but I have moved away from that because there are too many issues getting it
to work reliably cross-platform and in corporate settings. On the Mac you
would use PICT, on Windows, EMF.

I would still have a go in EPS first if I were trying to produce
professional-quality paper output. If you can make EPS work, it's going to
give the best result. However, EMF comes a very close second and happens
with no problems on Windows. On the Mac, you need to use PICT, which is
similar to WMF, compact but a little limited.

If you are going out to the public Internet, there really are no vector
formats sufficiently widely available to be safe, you have to use raster
graphics. In which case, use PNG for line art and screen dumps, and JPEG
for continuous-tone photographs and blends and things.

Whatever you use, in Word set it inline with text. If you must flow text
around it use a frame, not a text box. Frames are more limited in their
positioning, but they will stay in the text layer and flow reliably with the
text, which is what you normally want. Text in frames is visible to the TOC
and Index generators, text in text boxes is not.

Hope this helps.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[John McGhie]

See the answer I just posted...

Thanks John,
The dynamic blank page looks like the best option.

I have an image use question - considering the specifics of this
project - I‚m working on a mac; the file will be emailed to others on
PCs; I don‚t have control over final printing; long document (about
300 pages).

There are a number of images and graphics to be used in this document.

- What is the best file format to use ( I can do all
converting/resizing in Photoshop)
- How best to format. I believe inline with text is best, however I
have set up a deep left hand indent to my body text, and I would like
to offset some images so they fall half in the text and half in the
wide left margin, and have the text run around the image. I will also
need to place a caption or an photo credit underneath the image ( none
of which need to be referenced by a TOC or elsewhere).

I believe floating graphics are difficult to control.

All suggestions appreciated very much, and thanks again for all your
help.

Sandra

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[SandJ]

Hi Sandi:



Yes, absolutely you should! That's terrible...

Use it as if it were FrameMaker You will get a much
better run.

Seriously, when people ask me "What's the best book to study
to learn
advanced Microsoft Word techniques?" I tell them that if they
can lay their
hands on a copy of the Adobe FrameMaker Handbook, that's the
one to use.

It's totally focused on producing long and/or complex
documents, which is
where doco pros make their living. And everything you read
about in there
has an equivalent in Word. Usually, a close equivalent.
Often, if you
simply close your eyes and pretend it *is* FrameMaker,
everything will work
perfectly.

Much to my surprise, the Project Director on my current
contract today
signed off on a plan to implement fully automated production
of my current
tender document. This is a 2,500 page document, going to PDF,
Print, CD-ROM
and HTML. The team has some 40 authors and six editors. The
Authors are
untrained business specialists so you can imagine the mess
that is coming
in.

I started out producing "some tools" to assist people with the
more complex
rescue operations necessitated by having untrained authors
mangling
production documents.

The toolset grew and grew and grew. Tonight we did a trial
run to press
with 2,400 pages compiled from 450 subdocuments in Word.
Total time to PDF
is around 15 minutes, including generating 12 tables of
contents.

The level of automation we have achieved has far exceeded my
wildest
expectations. This is *why* I recommend Word as your weapon
for production
of large-scale documentation. Other products require far more
time, and a
large cast of highly-skilled professionals to do what Word
can.

I should mention that I am the only one on the project with
"professional
level" Microsoft Word skills. The Editor today could not
figure out why
some text would not print. It was behind a graphic... And
she's the next
most skilled Word user on the team

Don't give up, Sandra. There are plenty of people in here who
can help you
out: several of us do this kind of thing for a living. Keep
asking. I
personally will have more time to help you out next week
(press day is the
16th...).

Oh, yeah, that's right... You asked a question I need to
get my head
around what kind of graphics you are using. The industry
standard is JPEG
for bitmaps, but I prefer PNG. Under most circumstances it is
slightly
smaller and much less lossy. For vector art, the industry
standard is EPS,
but I have moved away from that because there are too many
issues getting it
to work reliably cross-platform and in corporate settings. On
the Mac you
would use PICT, on Windows, EMF.

I would still have a go in EPS first if I were trying to
produce
professional-quality paper output. If you can make EPS work,
it's going to
give the best result. However, EMF comes a very close second
and happens
with no problems on Windows. On the Mac, you need to use
PICT, which is
similar to WMF, compact but a little limited.

If you are going out to the public Internet, there really are
no vector
formats sufficiently widely available to be safe, you have to
use raster
graphics. In which case, use PNG for line art and screen
dumps, and JPEG
for continuous-tone photographs and blends and things.

Whatever you use, in Word set it inline with text. If you
must flow text
around it use a frame, not a text box. Frames are more
limited in their
positioning, but they will stay in the text layer and flow
reliably with the
text, which is what you normally want. Text in frames is
visible to the TOC
and Index generators, text in text boxes is not.

Hope this helps.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please
do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

Hi John,

Thanks once again - it’s very supportive to know that I’m not alone
here with what sometimes feels like the Aegean stables.

Regarding what kind of images I’m using.

I feel stupid saying this, but I don’t know what kind they are.

All the images I’m supposed to use are already imbedded in the Word
documents that were sent to me as content for the new single doc. I’ve
figured out how to do the "save as picture" function, which gives me
several options on how to save the graphic ( png, jpg etc) to my hard
drive, but I noticed that when I did this there seemed to be some loss
of quality, at least on screen.

I do not have access to the original files.

However, it seems that all I need to worry about (!) is creating a
nice looking PDF with pictures ( I don’t have Adobe Acrobat, I’ll be
"printing as PDF" in Word), and a final Word file without images,
just a note where they might be, and one or two essential ones.
Sending all the others I use along separately.

So my question now is... for the purposes of producing pdf, can I
simply copy and paste images across from Word doc to word doc? Since
I’m the one producing the PDF I guess I can place them how I like, in
text boxes, floating or whatever ( I don’t seem to have a frame
function in my word 2004?) - and then just remove them for the Word
file.

I’ve already discovered that forcing an automatic blank page or using
sections to force my chapters to start on the right hand side produces
nice, useless, blank pdf pages. So now I just have a very simple
document with page break before headings and a couple of sections for
’front matter’.

Since I’m not in contact with the final publishing resting place of
this word document, (madness, yes I know but that is how it is), I
have no idea how they would like the images, but this isn’t my issue
other than I’ll imagine I’ll have to save them off of their original
Word documents in some kind of format so I can send a long a zipped
folder.

This is probably more information than anyone needs but I guess I
needed to share...

All suggestions very gratefully recieved...

Sandra

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Sandi:

Take pity on me, pretty please... I don't have time to be scrolling for
bottom-posting I have a bad habit of ignoring posts that don't have the
new question ion the first screenful -- I have to go through these groups at
a hell of a rate...

To get a Frame, use Insert Text Box, then Format>Text Box>Text Box>Convert
to Frame...

Or a Frame can be an attribute of a paragraph. It can thus be defined as
part of a style, and used that way, they are very powerful: you can have a
style that places a Frame in your left margin with a fixed relationship to a
styled paragraph.

Saving pictures out of Word saves the Preview version, not the printable
version, so yes it will come out at screen resolution. Copying from Word to
Word will be OK. For everything else, you need a graphics application to
get the whole picture out.

Forget printing to PDF from Word: get a copy of Acrobat. Mac OS's PDF is
PDF 1.1 which is huge, quite unsuitable for web use. The file is too bulky,
and there is an implementation issue that will give you multiple PDF files
because the Mac will break the file any time the section properties change.

You can sign up on the Adobe website to create PDFs online: that might suit
you.

Hope this helps

Hi John,

Thanks once again - it‚s very supportive to know that I‚m not alone
here with what sometimes feels like the Aegean stables.

Regarding what kind of images I‚m using.

I feel stupid saying this, but I don‚t know what kind they are.

All the images I‚m supposed to use are already imbedded in the Word
documents that were sent to me as content for the new single doc. I‚ve
figured out how to do the "save as picture" function, which gives me
several options on how to save the graphic ( png, jpg etc) to my hard
drive, but I noticed that when I did this there seemed to be some loss
of quality, at least on screen.

I do not have access to the original files.

However, it seems that all I need to worry about (!) is creating a
nice looking PDF with pictures ( I don‚t have Adobe Acrobat, I‚ll be
"printing as PDF" in Word), and a final Word file without images,
just a note where they might be, and one or two essential ones.
Sending all the others I use along separately.

So my question now is... for the purposes of producing pdf, can I
simply copy and paste images across from Word doc to word doc? Since
I‚m the one producing the PDF I guess I can place them how I like, in
text boxes, floating or whatever ( I don‚t seem to have a frame
function in my word 2004?) - and then just remove them for the Word
file.

I‚ve already discovered that forcing an automatic blank page or using
sections to force my chapters to start on the right hand side produces
nice, useless, blank pdf pages. So now I just have a very simple
document with page break before headings and a couple of sections for
‚front matter‚.

Since I‚m not in contact with the final publishing resting place of
this word document, (madness, yes I know but that is how it is), I
have no idea how they would like the images, but this isn‚t my issue
other than I‚ll imagine I‚ll have to save them off of their original
Word documents in some kind of format so I can send a long a zipped
folder.

This is probably more information than anyone needs but I guess I
needed to share...

All suggestions very gratefully recieved...

Sandra

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Cath]

Hi, I have a similar problem, formatting documents that have so many other
people writing and formatting them, and there length makes them terrably
cumbersome.
Could I have a look at the template that you mentioned- about creating a
template.
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks

 

[SandJ]

Hi, I have a similar problem, formatting documents that have
so many other
people writing and formatting them, and there length makes
them terrably
cumbersome.
Could I have a look at the template that you mentioned- about
creating a
template.
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks


&nbsp;> > I‚m using a Powerbook with Panther.
&nbsp;> > My Word Version: 2004
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > My experience of Word has been limited to opening a
new document and
&nbsp;> > writing a letter or two, with occasional curses when
things didn‚t
&nbsp;> > ‚work‚.
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > However, I have taken on an enormous job that
requires a professional
&nbsp;> > knowledge of the programme. I have been reading
everything I can, but
&nbsp;> > would like some advice on how to approach this job:
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > I have a number of long word documents (1 - 200
pages long, some with
&nbsp;> > images), prepared on different systems and by
different people that I
&nbsp;> > have to ‚make into one‚ long document which
looks like it has been
&nbsp;> > created by one person - i.e cohesive look and feel
and language. Some
&nbsp;> > content is to be omitted or moved around and
separated, to be put in
&nbsp;> > different parts of the new document.
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > This "one" document will be shared and worked on by
three different
&nbsp;> > people (including myself), on different platforms
and with different
&nbsp;> > versions of Word. Ultimately a PDF will be created
for emailing the
&nbsp;> > document to others. It‚s possible we will have to
send out the Word
&nbsp;> > doc too.
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > I will be the person responsible for the formatting
of the document,
&nbsp;> > although it‚s possible the others will have do
some as well. The plan
&nbsp;> > is for the content to be finalized, and then I take
this and create
&nbsp;> > formatting on the final document.
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > However, in order to avoid reformatting as we work
on the document I
&nbsp;> > presume I should (this all based on the two
excellent articles- Clive
&nbsp;> > Huggan‚s Bend Word to Your Will and John
McGhie‚s Word Templates
&nbsp;> > document):
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > - where I can, copy and paste text from the
original, content worked
&nbsp;> > on documents as ‚unformatted‚ and then apply my
styles to my document
&nbsp;> > specific template
&nbsp;> > - Attach this template to the document and send to
each person working
&nbsp;> > on its final form
&nbsp;> > - Request that the "Automatically update styles on
open" box be
&nbsp;> > unchecked
&nbsp;> > - Use unique styles throughout, (except default
Heading styles that
&nbsp;> > come with Word)
&nbsp;> > - Not basing any style on "Normal" style
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > Questions:
&nbsp;> > Am I on the right track?
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > If I use unique styles, and the document has to be
emailed to other
&nbsp;> > people outside of our working group who won‚t want
to deal with
&nbsp;> > handling a .dot document as well, will the document
still retain as
&nbsp;> > much of the formatting as possible?
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > We do not know what the ultimate printer driver is.
What is the best
&nbsp;> > way to handle this?
&nbsp;> >
&nbsp;> > Thanks in advance,
&nbsp;> > SandJ

I hope this post is at the top, John!
Thanks for the PDF and Frame info.

I’ve got a fair amount of tables in my document, of various sizes. Do
you or anyone else have any important suggestions on how to manage
these - or a URL to some good information?

I’m not sure what the difference is between unchecking ’allow row to
break across pages’ and applying ’keep with next’ from the Format -
Paragraph menu.


Othewise things are moving along.

Ta!

Sandra

 

[Clive Huggan]

I hope this post is at the top, John!
Thanks for the PDF and Frame info.

I‚ve got a fair amount of tables in my document, of various sizes. Do
you or anyone else have any important suggestions on how to manage
these - or a URL to some good information?

I‚m not sure what the difference is between unchecking ‚allow row to
break across pages‚ and applying ‚keep with next‚ from the Format -
Paragraph menu.


Othewise things are moving along.

Ta!

Sandra

I have some suggestions about tables in "Bend Word to Your Will", available
as a free download from
http://www.word.mvps.org/FAQs/WordMac/Bend/BendWord.htm

On page 49 is the main article on tables (the articles are essentially
dictionary-style -- but make sure to read the introduction at the beginning
of the document).

On page 94, under the heading 'Example — creating and inserting a
pre-formatted table via AutoText', I describe how I pre-format tables the
way I want to, once-off, then subsequently insert them at will with a
keystroke. I produced entries for tables of one to six columns to save the
time involved in doing this via Table menu > Insert > Table.

Also see the ref to tables under the heading 'To minimise document
corruption' in appendix A.

The next edition of "Bend Word to Your Will" will include a simple macro
that you may also find useful:

PREVENT CELLS (ROWS) FROM BREAKING ACROSS THE PAGE

This macro ensures that a table cell that is too large (high) to fit in the
remaining space on a page is moved automatically to the next page rather
than allow it to be split in two.

To use the macro, select the cell from the left margin by double-clicking,
then click the button.

I labelled the button with text: "no break"

The macro (excluding the "~~~~~~") is as follows:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sub noBreakInRow()
'
' noBreakInRow Macro
' Macro recorded 4/10/04 by Clive Huggan
'
Selection.Tables(1).Rows.AllowBreakAcrossPages = False
End Sub
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is at least 5 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Cath:

How good are you with VBA? My templates are solutions designed for
documents in the 1 -2,000 page range, but they require you to have strong
VBA to get them to work for you.

The two most important pieces of advice I can give you for "cumbersome"
documents are:

1) Don't add the Table of Contents until you are ready to print, then
delete it again for working on the document. A document will save "much"
faster if it does not contain "Fields".

2) Use external graphics. Link your pictures and specify "do not embed"
them. The Help explains how to do this. The thing that slows down large
documents is the time taken to write the file to disk. Word doesn't care:
it is happy to work with any file less than 2 gigabytes. But as soon as the
document exceeds 32 MB, it really starts to slow down because it takes so
long to write to disk. If you remove the graphics and link them back in,
the weight of the graphics is never added to the document. Word draws each
graphic from the disk only when it needs to display it. Your file size
remains small and your document thus handles a lot faster.

Hope this helps

Hi, I have a similar problem, formatting documents that have so many other
people writing and formatting them, and there length makes them terrably
cumbersome.
Could I have a look at the template that you mentioned- about creating a
template.
(e-mail address removed)
Thanks

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[John McGhie]

No, Sandi: That's "bottom posting" and it's a real pain when I am in a
hurry. Your answer is at the bottom: just to show you what it's like

I hope this post is at the top, John!
Thanks for the PDF and Frame info.

I‚ve got a fair amount of tables in my document, of various sizes. Do
you or anyone else have any important suggestions on how to manage
these - or a URL to some good information?

I‚m not sure what the difference is between unchecking ‚allow row to
break across pages‚ and applying ‚keep with next‚ from the Format -
Paragraph menu.

Normally, we use tables to line things up across the page. So for most
applications, "Do not allow rows to break across pages" is more sensible:
you do not want the text from three of the columns at the bottom of the page
but the text from the fourth column split so most of it is at the top of the
next page.

The only time you would allow rows to split across the page is if your table
contains lots of text in each row and the reader would not mind having to
chase then rest of the text to the next page. That's almost "never".

With this setting "OFF", Word will divide the row at the bottom of the page.
With it "ON", Word will move the whole row forward if it cannot fit the
whole row on the bottom of the previous page.

Keep with Next holds the paragraph it is applied to on the same page as the
following paragraph. Effectively, it tells Word if you need to split the
page, do it BEFORE this paragraph, not after it.

In tables, you usually use this setting only on the Header row, to ensure
that the header row cannot be left sitting on its own at the bottom of the
previous page.

Assuming you have the "Heading Rows Repeat" property also enabled, Word will
ensure that each time it needs to break the table, the heading row and at
least one other row will be moved to the next page.

Format a table to your standards, including applying the correct styles to
the cells and rows. Then make a copy of that table, delete the text, and
store the table shell in an AutoText so you can instantly place a "standard"
table in your document when you need one.

The only other tip I would give you is: "Avoid" merging or straddling
either rows or columns, and avoid nesting tables. Where you need some rows
where cells span more than one column, or some columns where cells span more
than one row, it's usually better to implement them as a stack of individual
tables with no space between them. Nested or merged tables are very
fragile. Unless all of the people working on the document are
highly-skilled with Word, merged or nested tables will produce lots of
corrupted documents. The fact that it's careless editing that is the cause
is neither here nor there: you still have to fix the corruption. Producing
individual tables and removing the gap between them will get you a far more
stable result. It takes time to learn how to edit tables without damaging
them. Let's face it, your co-workers simply won't bother, so you will waste
a lot less time fixing documents if you try to avoid merging or straddling
table cells in documents that are going to be editing a lot.

Of course, there are some places where the visual effect of merged cells is
required. First try to achieve the effect by turning off the cell borders
so they "vanish" as far as the reader is concerned. You will find that your
document is much more stable in the hands of amateur authors.

Hope this helps

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 4 1209 1410

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

This is the last bastion of where Top posting is acceptable.

For years I was in a Group devoted to support on Netscape the Mozilla
for Mac. (I Still am.)

They've had a bruahaha going from the high and might USENET types who
have been brought up on Bulletin Boards and 150 baud modems; and the Mac
types who were interested in getting answers to people as efficiently as
possible. (this has been on going for as far back as Netscape Navigator
3.0.1.a gold.) The second group Top posted. Because it was more Logical.

But then after Mozilla was spun off as an open Source project last year,
the Old guard won out and passed down an edict. either bottom post or
don't period. So even now the in Mozilla Champions program people must
bottom post whether they want to or not.

To me Top Posting in a "Service or Support" is far more efficient, and
logical than bottom posting.

Who wants to scroll through 5 pages of bottom posting only to read "Me,too!"

Now if your just writing chit-chat letters or regular conversation
bottom posting should be normal.


So enjoy your ability to top post. Eventually you may lose the privilege.

No, Sandi: That's "bottom posting" and it's a real pain when I am in a
hurry. Your answer is at the bottom: just to show you what it's like

____________________Snip____________________



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[Neill Massello]

Who wants to scroll through 5 pages of bottom posting only to read "Me,too!"

Who wants to sift through 5 pages looking for the particular item that's
being responded to? It's mostly top-posters who don't trim quotes.

I'll bet the Mozillans don't like your excessive sig, either.

 

[JE McGimpsey]

This is the last bastion of where Top posting is acceptable.

Marginally...among the newbies...

They've had a bruahaha going from the high and might USENET types who
have been brought up on Bulletin Boards and 150 baud modems;

Hey! Bulletin Boards were a *major* improvement over reading newsgroups
in pine over a telnet connection, and I had to *build* my first 150 baud
modem, fella!

and the Mac types who were interested in getting answers to people as
efficiently as possible.

early "Mac-types".
a real concern among most
information was *never*
efficiency in disseminating
in my book...<g>. And
efficiently as possible"
bottom to top is hardly "as
Hmmm... Having to read news

(this has been on going for as far back as Netscape Navigator 3.0.1.a
gold.) The second group Top posted. Because it was more Logical.

Nah, you're coming in *way* too late. It's been going on since before
the Web was a glimmer in Tim Berners-Lee's eye.

Us "Mac-types" (OK, so I was also a "SuperPET-type" and an "Amiga-type",
I used all three in those days) were around reading newsgroups long
before this newfangled technology brought a graphical user interface to
the internet. And even *then* there were a few misguided souls that
top-posted.

Top-posting wasn't invented by Microsoft, but when they released OE with
top-post by default for email and news, they did what they do to every
technology they touch - they "standardized" the rest of the world on
*their* standard.

But at least we were *ALL* snippers! <g>