Advice please on Styles for cross-platform?

[Graham Wideman [Visio MVP]]

Folks:

I'd appreciate any pointers, links to web pages etc that give advice on
setting up Word Styles to work reliably cross-platform. Ie: On both Mac and
Windows. Main concern that I know about is how to specify fonts in a way
that works reasonably well.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Graham

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Graham:

For the ultimate cross-platform experience, *Leave the damned things alone*
is the best advise.

We have a whole website here: www.word.mvps.org It does not really discuss
cross-platform issues, because we're too lazy! We tend to say "produce a
*good* Word document and it will 'just work' with no issues cross-platform.
Produce a badly-formatted document and it will blow up in either place."
You're on the right track with "Styles". If you do all of your formatting
with Styles, you will get very few problems. If users employ direct
formatting, they're in trouble before they leave home!

On both platforms, Microsoft Word has around 140 built-in styles, and around
40 included fonts.

The fonts included on the Macintosh version have been re-coded to
Microsoft's specifications (or by Microsoft Typography, in many cases) to
match as closely as possible their PC equivalents.

So Rule 1: Use the built-in styles, customising the font sizes and leading
for your purpose.

Rule 2: Use the fonts Microsoft provided. Fonts of the same name provided
by other companies may/will produce varying results.

Rule 3: Forget bullets and numbering. Bullets and numbering attached to
the Heading and List-series styles by someone who knows what they are doing,
following Shauna Kelly's methods http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/index.html
will arrive and work fine on the Mac.

But unless you define the numbering into the style exactly right, it will
blow up when it crosses platform and you will get switches (often, numbers
turn to bullets or vice versa). Again: if you know what you are doing, you
can fix it in seconds by re-associating the list template with the style.
End users who have not been trained will break it every time

Use of PC fonts on the Mac is quite OK, but be aware that the hinting is
wrong for the Mac display so they will look bad on-screen. Just drag TTF or
OTF fonts into one of the OS X font folders and they will work.

Going the other way, from Mac to PC, has a higher degree of risk. The PC
does not understand Mac font suitcases, so you have to dig the individual
font files out of the suitcases to use them on the PC. Depending on the
font, who made it, and how old it is, the Unicode assignments may be wrong.
If they are, all hell breaks loose on the PC

Be aware that much of the "stuff has moved around in my document" carnage
cross-platform is produced by the differing printing subsystems. On either
platform, Word does not make either the display or the print job: it simply
hands the file off to the operating system. All the measurements come from
the printer driver in use. There's nothing you can do about this.

If a document is correctly formatted, you will never be aware of the
differences: each document will format and paginate and print perfectly. If
the document contains blank lines and hard page breaks, allow plenty of
extra project schedule, because you will have to laboriously fix it each
time it changes platform.

Since I see that you are a Visio MVP, I need to warn you that the Mac
Microsoft Office can't cope with most of what Visio can do to it I
suggest that you export to PNG. We can import WMF (badly...) but not EMF.
EPS is supposed to work, but usually *doesn't*. Nothing to do with
hyperlinks or properties will make it across No SVG, no EMZ, and
definitely no Macros

Hope this helps -- come back if you need more specifics.

Folks:

I'd appreciate any pointers, links to web pages etc that give advice on
setting up Word Styles to work reliably cross-platform. Ie: On both Mac and
Windows. Main concern that I know about is how to specify fonts in a way
that works reasonably well.

Thoughts?

Thanks,

Graham

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Graham Wideman [Visio MVP]]

For the ultimate cross-platform experience, *Leave the damned things

alone*
is the best advise.

Hahahahahahha!

John:

Your previous reply (in the longdocs group) made me happy. This one gives me
a good laugh as well. You are now up to two beers.

No need to pontificate on the problems that untrained users and
not-using-Styles can create. I'm WELL aware of that in general!

But your comments on fonts, and what to expect from the MS ones vs others
were very informative, thanks a bunch for those. And yes I was aware of the
problems with bullets in general, but not the additional cross-platform
wrinkle.

And as for the use of Visio for drawings... over the last couple of weeks
I've done a bunch of testing on this going both ways: From Visio to Mac (via
Word), and going from graphics formats on Mac into Visio.

On Windows... Word + Visio, a beautiful relationship. Take that doc to Mac
Word, and look out for pot-holes!

It is pretty infuriating how we're at 2006+ and STILL the WMF/EMF rendering
on Mac *in MS products* like Word makes really stupid mistakes. Meanwhile
Adobe seems to be very dedicated to not being able to convert AI or PDF
formats *into* EMF (despite the fact they obviously render them in EMF to
show them on screen on Windows). [*] For heavens sake, even pasting from AI
to Word on Mac looks like a dogs dinner.

But back to Visio -- my tentative conclusion is that there are actually
quite a range of Visio drawings that can be usefully paste-specialed into
Word on Windows as EMF, and look pretty good on Mac. And even things not
rendering exactly right on Mac aren't disturbed, so when the doc comes back
to Windows the EMF looks good.

One needs to maintain a list of gotchas though, and they are the kind of
thing that regular users are not going to cope with well. Amongst top beefs:

-- The EMF rendering in Mac Word (2004) hides the bottom approx 0.3 inches
of the EMF. Workaround is to (in Visio) add some white feature below the
actual drawing to force the EMF size to say it's bigger, then use the Word
crop feature to crop off the invisible bottom of the EMF.

-- EMF 90-degree (vertical) text gets rendered in the wrong place on Mac
Word

-- Special characters (eg symbol font) don't work across platforms (they do
in Word text, but not in EMF embedded in Word.)

-- Some fill pattern and color combos don't work quite right

I have to admit, it's making sticking the damn picture in as a TIF (with
compression) look pretty attractive.

As for EPS -- yep, forget it.

[*] -- I did manage to get a PDF into a WMF by loading it into AI and saving
as WMF (or EMF, don't remember). That loaded nicely into Visio, but when I
ungrouped it the text all ran off to a pile in the corner. I guess that's a
Visio bug. It wouldn't surprise me if it was something as stupid as the WMF
text positions using unexpected scaling or negative numbers or something
legit that was just not tested by the Visio crew.

Anyhow, definitely pretty sad that MS can't get their own products to work
together properly. But I suppose it's miraculous that we at least have fonts
that work on both platforms in Word.

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Graham:

Yeah, it's just so sad. Microsoft Office PC Program Group is just so
unbelievably arrogant -- they have not yet caught up with the idea that the
rest of the world expects it to "just work", and that if it doesn't, that's
NOT a reason to "Just buy Microsoft Office", that's a reason to "Buy
something else!"

EMF, WMF, PICT and QuickDraw are all based around CGM. But WMF can't handle
larger than 16-bit numbers, and QuickDraw has been deprecated in favour of
PDF on the Mac.

So yes: the reason to use EMF is to keep your rotated text. The reason to
avoid it is rotated text! Often you can get it to work by first pasting
into PowerPoint or Excel on the Mac (which both *expect* rotated text). Let
them convert to PICT or PDF (I'm not sure which they do: I think it's still
PICT) then paste that into Word.

I know that Microsoft has high hopes that if they just do *nothing* for long
enough, eventually the world will swing into line with them. Well, maybe
that would have been true if Mac had indeed gone broke. But it didn't. So
now, they need to get their cross-platform issues FIXED.

Because the first question that is going to be asked by any form of
Government purchasing authority, anyplace but the USA, is "Is it
cross-platform?"

And by that, we don't mean "Can you still read the text?"

Cheers

For the ultimate cross-platform experience, *Leave the damned things
alone*
is the best advise.

Hahahahahahha!

John:

Your previous reply (in the longdocs group) made me happy. This one gives me
a good laugh as well. You are now up to two beers.

No need to pontificate on the problems that untrained users and
not-using-Styles can create. I'm WELL aware of that in general!

But your comments on fonts, and what to expect from the MS ones vs others
were very informative, thanks a bunch for those. And yes I was aware of the
problems with bullets in general, but not the additional cross-platform
wrinkle.

And as for the use of Visio for drawings... over the last couple of weeks
I've done a bunch of testing on this going both ways: From Visio to Mac (via
Word), and going from graphics formats on Mac into Visio.

On Windows... Word + Visio, a beautiful relationship. Take that doc to Mac
Word, and look out for pot-holes!

It is pretty infuriating how we're at 2006+ and STILL the WMF/EMF rendering
on Mac *in MS products* like Word makes really stupid mistakes. Meanwhile
Adobe seems to be very dedicated to not being able to convert AI or PDF
formats *into* EMF (despite the fact they obviously render them in EMF to
show them on screen on Windows). [*] For heavens sake, even pasting from AI
to Word on Mac looks like a dogs dinner.

But back to Visio -- my tentative conclusion is that there are actually
quite a range of Visio drawings that can be usefully paste-specialed into
Word on Windows as EMF, and look pretty good on Mac. And even things not
rendering exactly right on Mac aren't disturbed, so when the doc comes back
to Windows the EMF looks good.

One needs to maintain a list of gotchas though, and they are the kind of
thing that regular users are not going to cope with well. Amongst top beefs:

-- The EMF rendering in Mac Word (2004) hides the bottom approx 0.3 inches
of the EMF. Workaround is to (in Visio) add some white feature below the
actual drawing to force the EMF size to say it's bigger, then use the Word
crop feature to crop off the invisible bottom of the EMF.

-- EMF 90-degree (vertical) text gets rendered in the wrong place on Mac
Word

-- Special characters (eg symbol font) don't work across platforms (they do
in Word text, but not in EMF embedded in Word.)

-- Some fill pattern and color combos don't work quite right

I have to admit, it's making sticking the damn picture in as a TIF (with
compression) look pretty attractive.

As for EPS -- yep, forget it.

[*] -- I did manage to get a PDF into a WMF by loading it into AI and saving
as WMF (or EMF, don't remember). That loaded nicely into Visio, but when I
ungrouped it the text all ran off to a pile in the corner. I guess that's a
Visio bug. It wouldn't surprise me if it was something as stupid as the WMF
text positions using unexpected scaling or negative numbers or something
legit that was just not tested by the Visio crew.

Anyhow, definitely pretty sad that MS can't get their own products to work
together properly. But I suppose it's miraculous that we at least have fonts
that work on both platforms in Word.

Hi Graham:

For the ultimate cross-platform experience, *Leave the damned things
alone*
is the best advise.

We have a whole website here: www.word.mvps.org It does not really
discuss
cross-platform issues, because we're too lazy! We tend to say "produce a
*good* Word document and it will 'just work' with no issues
cross-platform.
Produce a badly-formatted document and it will blow up in either place."
You're on the right track with "Styles". If you do all of your formatting
with Styles, you will get very few problems. If users employ direct
formatting, they're in trouble before they leave home!

On both platforms, Microsoft Word has around 140 built-in styles, and
around
40 included fonts.

The fonts included on the Macintosh version have been re-coded to
Microsoft's specifications (or by Microsoft Typography, in many cases) to
match as closely as possible their PC equivalents.

So Rule 1: Use the built-in styles, customising the font sizes and
leading
for your purpose.

Rule 2: Use the fonts Microsoft provided. Fonts of the same name
provided
by other companies may/will produce varying results.

Rule 3: Forget bullets and numbering. Bullets and numbering attached to
the Heading and List-series styles by someone who knows what they are
doing,
following Shauna Kelly's methods
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/index.html
will arrive and work fine on the Mac.

But unless you define the numbering into the style exactly right, it will
blow up when it crosses platform and you will get switches (often, numbers
turn to bullets or vice versa). Again: if you know what you are doing,
you
can fix it in seconds by re-associating the list template with the style.
End users who have not been trained will break it every time

Use of PC fonts on the Mac is quite OK, but be aware that the hinting is
wrong for the Mac display so they will look bad on-screen. Just drag TTF
or
OTF fonts into one of the OS X font folders and they will work.

Going the other way, from Mac to PC, has a higher degree of risk. The PC
does not understand Mac font suitcases, so you have to dig the individual
font files out of the suitcases to use them on the PC. Depending on the
font, who made it, and how old it is, the Unicode assignments may be
wrong.
If they are, all hell breaks loose on the PC

Be aware that much of the "stuff has moved around in my document" carnage
cross-platform is produced by the differing printing subsystems. On
either
platform, Word does not make either the display or the print job: it
simply
hands the file off to the operating system. All the measurements come
from
the printer driver in use. There's nothing you can do about this.

If a document is correctly formatted, you will never be aware of the
differences: each document will format and paginate and print perfectly.
If
the document contains blank lines and hard page breaks, allow plenty of
extra project schedule, because you will have to laboriously fix it each
time it changes platform.

Since I see that you are a Visio MVP, I need to warn you that the Mac
Microsoft Office can't cope with most of what Visio can do to it I
suggest that you export to PNG. We can import WMF (badly...) but not EMF.
EPS is supposed to work, but usually *doesn't*. Nothing to do with
hyperlinks or properties will make it across No SVG, no EMZ, and
definitely no Macros

Hope this helps -- come back if you need more specifics.




--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Graham Wideman [Visio MVP]]

John:

I'm not quite following your idea here:

So yes: the reason to use EMF is to keep your rotated text. The reason to
avoid it is rotated text! Often you can get it to work by first pasting
into PowerPoint or Excel on the Mac (which both *expect* rotated text).
Let
them convert to PICT or PDF (I'm not sure which they do: I think it's
still
PICT) then paste that into Word.

I'm assuming you were commenting on the case of going from Visio,
destination Mac Word.

How would I paste EMF into *Mac* PPT?

I tried pasting EMF from Visio into Win PPT, but the only choices were
bitmap or DIB, (or Visio drawing object). Same in Excel.

As for harsh comments on Windows Office group... they might have a few
coming from these quarters too, but not so far on this topic, which is
mostly about not being able to render EMF on Mac Word (unless of course it's
the Win Office group responsible for that!)

Graham

 

[Clive Huggan]

Graham,

Apropos of John's comment below: You or the other people involved might find
some notes I've written on "minimum maintenance" formatting useful. They are
on page 149 et seq. of some notes on the way I use Word for the Mac, titled
"Bend Word to Your Will", which are available as a free download from the
Word MVPs' website (http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html).
Notes on cross-platform work (which is my normal area of operation) are also
there.

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================


On 29/7/06 1:52 PM, in article C0F118B3.410FD%[email protected], "John McGhie

 

[Elliott Roper]

I have to admit, it's making sticking the damn picture in as a TIF (with
compression) look pretty attractive.

As for EPS -- yep, forget it.

[*] -- I did manage to get a PDF into a WMF by loading it into AI and saving
as WMF (or EMF, don't remember). That loaded nicely into Visio, but when I
ungrouped it the text all ran off to a pile in the corner. I guess that's a
Visio bug. It wouldn't surprise me if it was something as stupid as the WMF
text positions using unexpected scaling or negative numbers or something
legit that was just not tested by the Visio crew.

If you are interested in Visio to Mac Office interchange, you might
like to experiment with Omnigraffle Professional (www.omnigroup.com)
It can import and export some flavours of Visio. OmniGraffle is a
diagramming application somewhat at an angle to Visio. It makes
excellent use of the Mac GUI.

I have had some success using it as an intermediary between Word and
various eps producers, but not yet Visio. (I lack the necessary PC and
Visio, and I'm in no hurry to get either). If you want to play, there
is a time limited demo on their site.

Omni group seem about to be fill another gap in the Mac line-up. There
is now a beta of "OmniPlan" on the same site. It will import and export
Microsoft Project files, and work on them on a delightfully Mac-ish
way.

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

For the ultimate cross-platform experience, *Leave the damned things
alone*
is the best advise.

Hahahahahahha!

John:

Your previous reply (in the longdocs group) made me happy. This one gives me
a good laugh as well. You are now up to two beers.

No need to pontificate on the problems that untrained users and
not-using-Styles can create. I'm WELL aware of that in general!

But your comments on fonts, and what to expect from the MS ones vs others
were very informative, thanks a bunch for those. And yes I was aware of the
problems with bullets in general, but not the additional cross-platform
wrinkle.

And as for the use of Visio for drawings... over the last couple of weeks
I've done a bunch of testing on this going both ways: From Visio to Mac (via
Word), and going from graphics formats on Mac into Visio.

On Windows... Word + Visio, a beautiful relationship. Take that doc to Mac
Word, and look out for pot-holes!

It is pretty infuriating how we're at 2006+ and STILL the WMF/EMF rendering
on Mac *in MS products* like Word makes really stupid mistakes. Meanwhile
Adobe seems to be very dedicated to not being able to convert AI or PDF
formats *into* EMF (despite the fact they obviously render them in EMF to
show them on screen on Windows). [*] For heavens sake, even pasting from AI
to Word on Mac looks like a dogs dinner.

But back to Visio -- my tentative conclusion is that there are actually
quite a range of Visio drawings that can be usefully paste-specialed into
Word on Windows as EMF, and look pretty good on Mac. And even things not
rendering exactly right on Mac aren't disturbed, so when the doc comes back
to Windows the EMF looks good.

One needs to maintain a list of gotchas though, and they are the kind of
thing that regular users are not going to cope with well. Amongst top beefs:

-- The EMF rendering in Mac Word (2004) hides the bottom approx 0.3 inches
of the EMF. Workaround is to (in Visio) add some white feature below the
actual drawing to force the EMF size to say it's bigger, then use the Word
crop feature to crop off the invisible bottom of the EMF.

-- EMF 90-degree (vertical) text gets rendered in the wrong place on Mac
Word

-- Special characters (eg symbol font) don't work across platforms (they do
in Word text, but not in EMF embedded in Word.)

-- Some fill pattern and color combos don't work quite right

I have to admit, it's making sticking the damn picture in as a TIF (with
compression) look pretty attractive.

As for EPS -- yep, forget it.

[*] -- I did manage to get a PDF into a WMF by loading it into AI and saving
as WMF (or EMF, don't remember). That loaded nicely into Visio, but when I
ungrouped it the text all ran off to a pile in the corner. I guess that's a
Visio bug. It wouldn't surprise me if it was something as stupid as the WMF
text positions using unexpected scaling or negative numbers or something
legit that was just not tested by the Visio crew.

Anyhow, definitely pretty sad that MS can't get their own products to work
together properly. But I suppose it's miraculous that we at least have fonts
that work on both platforms in Word.

Hi Graham:

For the ultimate cross-platform experience, *Leave the damned things
alone*
is the best advise.

We have a whole website here: www.word.mvps.org It does not really
discuss
cross-platform issues, because we're too lazy! We tend to say "produce a
*good* Word document and it will 'just work' with no issues
cross-platform.
Produce a badly-formatted document and it will blow up in either place."
You're on the right track with "Styles". If you do all of your formatting
with Styles, you will get very few problems. If users employ direct
formatting, they're in trouble before they leave home!

On both platforms, Microsoft Word has around 140 built-in styles, and
around
40 included fonts.

The fonts included on the Macintosh version have been re-coded to
Microsoft's specifications (or by Microsoft Typography, in many cases) to
match as closely as possible their PC equivalents.

So Rule 1: Use the built-in styles, customising the font sizes and
leading
for your purpose.

Rule 2: Use the fonts Microsoft provided. Fonts of the same name
provided
by other companies may/will produce varying results.

Rule 3: Forget bullets and numbering. Bullets and numbering attached to
the Heading and List-series styles by someone who knows what they are
doing,
following Shauna Kelly's methods
http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/index.html
will arrive and work fine on the Mac.

But unless you define the numbering into the style exactly right, it will
blow up when it crosses platform and you will get switches (often, numbers
turn to bullets or vice versa). Again: if you know what you are doing,
you
can fix it in seconds by re-associating the list template with the style.
End users who have not been trained will break it every time

Use of PC fonts on the Mac is quite OK, but be aware that the hinting is
wrong for the Mac display so they will look bad on-screen. Just drag TTF
or
OTF fonts into one of the OS X font folders and they will work.

Going the other way, from Mac to PC, has a higher degree of risk. The PC
does not understand Mac font suitcases, so you have to dig the individual
font files out of the suitcases to use them on the PC. Depending on the
font, who made it, and how old it is, the Unicode assignments may be
wrong.
If they are, all hell breaks loose on the PC

Be aware that much of the "stuff has moved around in my document" carnage
cross-platform is produced by the differing printing subsystems. On
either
platform, Word does not make either the display or the print job: it
simply
hands the file off to the operating system. All the measurements come
from
the printer driver in use. There's nothing you can do about this.

If a document is correctly formatted, you will never be aware of the
differences: each document will format and paginate and print perfectly.
If
the document contains blank lines and hard page breaks, allow plenty of
extra project schedule, because you will have to laboriously fix it each
time it changes platform.

Since I see that you are a Visio MVP, I need to warn you that the Mac
Microsoft Office can't cope with most of what Visio can do to it I
suggest that you export to PNG. We can import WMF (badly...) but not EMF.
EPS is supposed to work, but usually *doesn't*. Nothing to do with
hyperlinks or properties will make it across No SVG, no EMZ, and
definitely no Macros

Hope this helps -- come back if you need more specifics.



--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

Of Course when MS switch office over to XML so that everyone can open
read write to the same document whether they are on a Mac, PC, UNIX, or
Linux machine; everything will be great ;-)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Beth Rosengard]

Hi Phillip,

If you don't learn to snip quoted text, I'm going to stop reading your posts
. Of course, you might not care whether I read them or not ;-).

--
***Please always reply to the newsgroup!***

Beth Rosengard
MacOffice MVP

Mac Word FAQ: <http://word.mvps.org/Mac/WordMacHome.html>
My Site: <http://www.bethrosengard.com>

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hell, when he learns to *TOP* post, I may "begin" to read his posts

Naaahh.... I *did* scroll eight screenfulls down to see what he had on the
end of that one.

And I happen to agree with him, in a hopeful kind of way.

XML will not "fix" this problem. Initially, it will make it worse In
XML, the graphics language is SVG (Scaleable Vector Graphics).

Apple and Microsoft will now have to implement that. They both say they do.
In fact it doesn't work very well on either platform, as anyone who has
tried to put them on the web can attest.

Cheers

Hi Phillip,

If you don't learn to snip quoted text, I'm going to stop reading your posts
. Of course, you might not care whether I read them or not ;-).

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Phillip M. Jones, CE.T.]

Hi Phillip,

If you don't learn to snip quoted text, I'm going to stop reading your posts
. Of course, you might not care whether I read them or not ;-).

I never know which groups want snipping or not. some groups I read will
send some one to your hous to give you a going over if you snip
anything. ;-) (Well almost that severe.) Other s threaten banishment
from the group if you do so. And some want you to. So I never know what
to do. I usually end up doing it wrong in the wrong group. Its Daxxed if
you do and daxxed if don't.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

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[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Phillip:

In here, top post or snip please. Preferably, BOTH!

Cheers

I never know which groups want snipping or not. some groups I read will
send some one to your hous to give you a going over if you snip
anything. ;-) (Well almost that severe.) Other s threaten banishment
from the group if you do so. And some want you to. So I never know what
to do. I usually end up doing it wrong in the wrong group. Its Daxxed if
you do and daxxed if don't.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410