after upgrade to Leopard, virtually nothing in the windows for myMail-Main Identity

[fotofah]

I upgraded yesterday to Leopard, going all the way to v10.5.1 after
using v10.4.11. I had my Entourage set to auto-check for new mail.
When I launched it, I got a notice via DragThing that I had 16 new
emails. When Entourage finished launching, I had a nearly empty
window. (I can still *send* email.) There are vertical scroll bars. If
I cilck in certain places of the window I can get some tiny icons to
show, but can't see the rest of the contents of my window, including
past folders, new email, etc.

I've looked on the Web and can't find others with this problem or a
fix.

I ran (from a separate hard drive) Apple Disk First Aid, Diskwarrior
(which found and fixed some problems which weren't there right before
I upgrade to Leopard), zapped the PRAM.

I'm *very* dependent on email. Any cause or cure for this glitch? I've
read that Office 2008 is due in mid-Jan., but I can't wait that
long. :-(

I researched possible problems with incompatibilities with various
apps, incl. Office, before upgrading, but hadn't expected *this*
glitch.

My MUD folder and its needed files seem to be in the right place, BTW.
I read a separate URL about "Where's My Data Gone?" but that doesn't
seem applicable to my problem. :-( http://www.barryw.net/weblog/files/lost_data.html.
Entourage doesn't seem to be opening with a new identity. It got my
new email, but I can't access it now. :-( (I completely cloned my hard
drive before upgrading to Leopard, but that doesn't give me emails
that are new and not in Gmail.)

Would a rebuild of the Entourage be likely to fix this problem?

- Dennis

 

[fotofah]

I did the rebuild, launched Entourage, could see everything as normal,
but with a message on top saying it was a message which had been
saved. I couldn't click on anything (which in normal behavior for
Entourage for me under Tiger when launching the first time after a
Rebuild). I tried quitting, nothing happened, finally the app quit.
When I relaunched, I again had the same nearly empty window. :-(

I relaunched with the Option key down, did a Verify. Entourage said
the database was fine.

Is there some obscure file under Library I need to dump? Something
else I can try.

I tried to repair Permissions, but about 12 of them can't be fixed now
since I upgraded to Leopard. Very odd. :-(

- Dennis

 

[Diane Ross]

Entourage works under Leopard. I have seen reports about users having
problems with several different applications not working after upgrading.
Problems seem to be tied to the type of install used.

What type of install did you do?

* Upgrade Mac OS X (the default upgrade method), Archive and Install or
Erase and Install.

If you used the Upgrade install I would test in a new User to see if you can
see your data there. Drag your Microsoft User Data folder to Shared and
Switch to a new User. You'll need to create a new User in System
Preferences. Drag the Microsoft User Data folder (it will be copied. Be sure
to move it back after the test) to your Documents folder in the new User.

Does it work? If yes, then you might want to migrate to a new User. If no,
then do an "Archive & Install".

Personally, I did the Erase and Install. It took a bit more time, but I have
not experienced any problems. I was able to update my applications that
required a Leopard update and week out old hardly used stuff. Now my
preferences folder is now cluttered with old stuff.

Let me know how this works so I can document it for other users that might
experience the same problem.

 

[fotofah]

Entourage works under Leopard. I have seen reports about users having
problems with several different applications not working after upgrading.
Problems seem to be tied to the type of install used.

What type of install did you do?

Yesterday, I did the Upgrade (1st choice of 3 from Apple) after
removing all log-in items, running Disk First Aid and Diskwarrior from
a seperate hard drive, also optimized the startup volume the day
before with Tech Tool Pro (all latest versions). I cloned my startup
volume with SuperDuper to another volume. Then I did the Upgrade to
v10.5.0 then immediately via Software Update to v10.5.1. I zapped the
PRAM, again rain Disk First Aid and Diskwarrior from my other volume
(diagnostics), found some things to repair only with DiskWarrior.
Zapped the PRAM again, started up with v10.5.1. Nearly all else I run
is
glitch-free, but..

Then I ran Repair Permissions (from the startup volume). I found
things it couldn't repair not matter how often I ran it. I called
Applecare (2x), was told one (possibly) might not be fixable until an
incremental update of Leopard. But the others *needed* to be fixed or
they'd really become catastrophic(!).

They recommended doing an Archive and Install, which I just finished.
(Now back on v10.5, about to go to a meeting the rest of my workday.)

I tried again launching Entourage, but the same problem with nearly
open window.

*Before* I did the Archive and Install, I tested to see under a Guest
account just created under Leopard (which disappears after use with
its data) and Entourage opened just fine, as if I were starting with
it fresh. Thus, Apple tech says it's not a System problem, but under
my User. :-(

I had looked to see if there was something for Entourage like a .plist
file in Library that I could move or Trash to solve the problem, which
fixes some app's problems, but couldn't find anything like that.

I've done the Option-Rebuild (3rd choice down, I think) with Entourage
3x today. Only with the first did it launch with all in my folders on
a window below about 2 others. But I couldn't click on anything.
(Typically that's how Entourage reacts any time after I've just
Rebuilt/fixed the database. Usually I have to Force Quit out of that,
but then the 2nd time I launch, it runs fine.)
Verify shows the database is fine.

Entourage didn't even open that way any of the other times I did the
Rebuild, but just that once. Odd.

* Upgrade Mac OS X (the default upgrade method), Archive and Install or
Erase and Install.

First time, Upgrade, 2nd time, Archive and Install.

If you used the Upgrade install I would test in a new User to see if you can
see your data there

See above.

. Drag your Microsoft User Data folder to Shared and
Switch to a new User. You'll need to create a new User in System
Preferences. Drag the Microsoft User Data folder (it will be copied. Be sure
to move it back after the test) to your Documents folder in the new User.

I'll try that.

Does it work? If yes, then you might want to migrate to a new User. If no,
then do an "Archive & Install".

Sorry. I've been using OX since the first version, but haven't ever
migrated to a new user. How is that done?

Personally, I did the Erase and Install. It took a bit more time, but I have
not experienced any problems. I was able to update my applications that
required a Leopard update and week out old hardly used stuff. Now my
preferences folder is now cluttered with old stuff.

Each time in the past I've upgraded the OS, I've done the Archive and
Install (with excellent advice from the Take Control ebooks on
upgrading, http://www.takecontrolbooks.com)

Let me know how this works so I can document it for other users that might
experience the same problem.

Thanks for your help (so far), Diane.

I had completely cloned my startup volume before this so I could use
the "compromise" method from the Take Control of Upgrading to Leopard
book, which is Upgrade as long as you have a complete clone to fall
back on. But because I had Entourage set for auto-checking emails, it
immediately at the start of my work day downloaded about 16 emails.
And I've done other stuff on my Mac since this a.m. also apart from
that happening.

- Dennis

 

[Diane Ross]

Thanks for your help (so far), Diane.

Since we're all new to Leopard I feel like the blind leading the blind, but
will do my best to help.

I had completely cloned my startup volume before this so I could use
the "compromise" method from the Take Control of Upgrading to Leopard
book, which is Upgrade as long as you have a complete clone to fall
back on. But because I had Entourage set for auto-checking emails, it
immediately at the start of my work day downloaded about 16 emails.
And I've done other stuff on my Mac since this a.m. also apart from
that happening.

First thanks for taking the time to answer all of my questions. Since you
have a backup, I suggest doing the erase and install then migrate your data
over. This should help with any corrupt files. I've seen reports where Time
Machine would choke on a corrupt file like a .JPG. Migrating the data caught
the file where Time Machine didn't.

OK, you asked about migrating. I've never used it so I found this in Apple
Help:

Using Migration Assistant to transfer files
If you need to transfer all your files and important settings from an older
Mac to a new one, and both computers are using Mac OS X, you can use
Migration Assistant.

Before using Migration Assistant, make sure that both computers have Mac OS
X installed and that you have a FireWire cable to connect the two computers.

To transfer files using Migration Assistant:

From the Finder on your new computer, open Migration Assistant, located in
the Utilities folder in your Applications folder.

Follow the onscreen instructions to connect a FireWire cable and choose the
files you want to transfer.

See this Apple KB for some FAQs on using the Migrations Assistant.
<http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=25773>

Let me know how this works.

 

[fotofah]

First thanks for taking the time to answer all of my questions. Since you
have a backup, I suggest doing the erase and install then migrate your data
over. This should help with any corrupt files. I've seen reports where Time
Machine would choke on a corrupt file like a .JPG. Migrating the data caught
the file where Time Machine didn't.

I was trying to avoid doing an Erase and Install. I think, from what
I've read, that among other things, I'd lose the network settings that
*can* be preserved via Archive and Install. :-( Yesterday I did an
Archive and Install, then updated (again) to v10.5.1 <sigh> And still
Entourage won't open properly.

I think by doing the Migrate from my clone from several days ago
(before I upgraded to Leopard) I'd be losing files I created, worked

If you used the Upgrade install I would test in a new User to see if you can
see your data there

See above.

. Drag your Microsoft User Data folder to Shared and
Switch to a new User. You'll need to create a new User in System
Preferences. Drag the Microsoft User Data folder (it will be copied. Be sure
to move it back after the test) to your Documents folder in the new User.

I'll try that.

Does it work? If yes, then you might want to migrate to a new User. If no,
then do an "Archive & Install".

OK, you asked about migrating. I've never used it so I found this in Apple
Help:

Thanks for that info and all your help, Diane.

Let me know how this works.

Will do.

FYI, my startup volume is 339 GB on a 500 GB drive. So any
transferring still take a lot of time. :-(

- Dennis

 

[fotofah]

I just talked with another Apple tech rep. With his help, I found (and
dragged to the Desktop) the .plist file for Entourage under my User.
But relaunching Entourage didn't solve the problem of the empty Main
window. (It seems that everything else works in Entourage except for
vital thing. (I'm having to use my Gmail Webmail as a temporary
substitute, which is very frustrating.

What he tried to explain to me what quite complex, even for me, but he
said that I couldn't just create a new User and put all my existing
data into that.

He said that the Migration Assistant works best for Apple apps and
files, less great for 3rd party apps and files.

He recommended I check on the Mactopia Website for advice including
how to archive my files. (Evidently from the rebuilds of my E.
database and verification of it, the database itself is o.k. He said I
might have to create a new MUD and put my existing database into that
(assuming that's possible, which he did).

- Dennis

 

[Diane Ross]

He recommended I check on the Mactopia Website for advice including
how to archive my files. (Evidently from the rebuilds of my E.
database and verification of it, the database itself is o.k. He said I
might have to create a new MUD and put my existing database into that
(assuming that's possible, which he did).

If you install new or even with "Archive & Install" I would install Office
from the CD and update. (use "Remove Office" if it's installed). The
Microsoft User Data folder is created by Office, but you can replace it with
your backup. The MUD contains your data. About the only problem that can go
wrong with moving it around is permissions. Some users have let Entourage
create a new MUD then just dragged over their Identity folder.

By installing Office fresh you are making sure all underlying files are
installed. Having a good base especially of the OS is crucial in a working
environment.

It would be interesting to know if migrating data moves over network
settings. I'll ask on a couple of the general Mac talk lists to see if
anyone knows.

 

[Diane Ross]

It would be interesting to know if migrating data moves over network
settings. I'll ask on a couple of the general Mac talk lists to see if
anyone knows.

According to a reply I received on the Mac-L list, it does transfer over
your network settings.

 

[fotofah]

On Nov. 21, I called to Microsoft for help and got one very patient,
helpful tech rep. She spent hours (maybe 5 total on different calls)
with me on the phone (incl. her waiting on hold). She walked me
through everything she could imagine would solve my problem. (She did
say though, that Leopard was "too new" for Microsoft to be using it.
So she had no experience with it yet. :-( That day was probably one of
the worst of my life.

One of the things she had me do was to uninstall Office 2004 using my
install CD. That took it off my *backup* drive first(!), so I later
had to reinstall it there as well as on my boot drive (with OS 10.5.1
on). I then updated through all the various updates since the version
on my Office install CD--and still couldn't get Entourage to work
properly no matter which one of about 4 backups of the its database I
went back to. (And I spent a lot of time doing compact/repair
database--the 3rd choice down when launching Entourage--on several of
those. She also had me bring in backups of the database from my backup
drive.

On launching Entourage, I usually just got an empty Main window with
scrollbars. If I clicked where the top icons were to be, they would
show up faintly. I could do things in Entourage like new email and
sending them, but without having any of my folders showing up. Once,
all my folders *did* show up properly, but then Entourage froze on one
open email. After having to Force Quit, I either just got the empty
main window or, later, Entourage wouldn't even launch, but "suddenly
quit" each time.

I called Applecare again on the next working day. They concurred with
my outside Mac repair guy (an authorized Apple guy locally) who felt
that my boot drive was in the process of failing, and corrupting data
on the drive. (I was having to run DiskWarrior nearly every day and
finding up to 12 things to be fixed.)

I replaced the boot drive after I'd gone back to using my backup drive
(from about Nov. 19 or 20 when I switched to Leopard on my boot
drive). I'd had to reinstall Office 2004, go through all the updates,
and do the "3rd choice" database repair technique, but did get my most
recent database to work fine. I then used SuperDuper to clone that
data over to the brand-new 500 GB drive (internal as one of 4 in my
MacPro). (No problems found there with DiskWarrior no matter how many
days I use it between running diagnostics.

Today I spent hours (again), doing an Archive and Install to Leopard
after deleting all log-in items and running Disk First Aid on both the
backup drive and boot drive, as well as Diskwarrior, zapping the PRAM.
I took it up to v10.5.1, checked to see if there were any updates for
Office (I was already up-too-date, thanks to my VersionTracker Pro
subscription.) But when I launched Entourage, I still had the same
problem with the main window not opening! :-(

When I talked to Applecare, they said (If I understood them correctly)
that I couldn't just move/copy my files over to a new User. Even when
I tried to use the Shared Folder for my MUD, I ran into permission
problems and couldn't open that in a new user (even after I tried
under Get Info to solve the permission problem for the folder).

Should I just wait until Office 2008 and hope that that version will
allow me to run Entourage with Leopard? (I've read of folks with
Leopard having problems with Word from Office 2004, not being able to
print, but I tried that and I could today. Both Word and Entourage did
take a *very* long time to launch under Leopard, though. I read
they're not even written for Universal yet, after, what, 2 yrs. or so
of Intel Macs being out?

- Dennis

For now, I've gone back to working from my backup drive with Tiger,
where Entourage *does* run properly. I can't find any postings on
others having this

 

[Diane Ross]

Today I spent hours (again), doing an Archive and Install to Leopard
after deleting all log-in items and running Disk First Aid on both the
backup drive and boot drive, as well as Diskwarrior, zapping the PRAM.
I took it up to v10.5.1, checked to see if there were any updates for
Office (I was already up-too-date, thanks to my VersionTracker Pro
subscription.) But when I launched Entourage, I still had the same
problem with the main window not opening! :-(

Office 2004 does work in Leopard. You just are one of the unlucky ones that
is having problems. Let's test to see if we can isolate where the problem is
located.

1. Create a new User in System Preferences
2. Move your Office 2004 Identity folder to Shared
3. Switch Users to the new test User
4. Open Entourage and test...does it work as expected. If Yes then go to #5.
If no, then it's a system problem see #8.
5. Rename the new Main Identity to Blank New Identity
6. Drag the Identity folder from Shared (it will be copied) to the Microsoft
User Data folder in the new User's Document folder.
7. Open Entourage and select your Identity...does it work? If no, then it's
database corruption or the file permissions. Check File permission using Get
Info between the new blank Identity and your moved Main Identity.
8. If it's system wide, then I would use "Erase & Install" for Leopard.
Install Office from the CD. Only move over your Microsoft User Data folder
from your clone.

After you are finished testing, be sure to move your Identity folder back to
your regular Microsoft User Data folder.

I do have a Leopard bug page for Entourage, but there is very little that
has been reported.

Using Entourage with Leopard
<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/faq_topic/leopard.html#leopard_bugs>