Am I just wasting my time with frontpage?

[Rick, United Kingdom]

Hi, i am very confused and annoyed.

I have a plan to start my own e-commerce site using dropshipping. The site
will hold about 2550 pages.
I have spoken to people about using frontpage to build my site and then host
it on my old spare pc (to cut down costs). They basically laughed at me and
told me not to bother as fronntpage is a waste of time iand i should look to
something called Linux and OScommerce to host and build my site.

My question is this, are these people right? I use MS Office all the time
and just shelled out money upgrading to 2003, i find the packages very easy
to use and have no problems with frontpage that i can't figure out myself or
by asking a community. So why SHOULD I change? is there a need? is it really
that difficult to obtain SSL's, IIS, asp.net databases and so forth in
frontpage?
Can i build my site and then run it on the "apache" server? or is MS Server
just as good and stable?

Please help!!!

Thanks

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

Those people are not correct, however I would not suggest that you host your own site, especially a
eCommerce site.

FrontPage can be used along with other application to build any type of web site, it is just a tool

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================

 

[Joe Rohn]

Hi Rick,

One thing that concerns me about OSCommerce (Or any open source cart) are
the potential security risks. It would seem to me that by their very nature
open source applications would make easier targets for hacking.

If you want you can continue to use FrontPage and also find many different
windows type hosts that support a number of .asp. Access, MS SQL type carts
and databases. Personally I only use Windows hosting now...and all of my
clients except maybe 3 or 4 are also on Windows.

--
Joe

Microsoft MVP FrontPage

FrontPage Users Forums:
http://www.timeforweb.com/frontpage

 

[Murray]

I have to agree with Thomas' post. FP is only a tool, and it's only as good
as the user's skill allows it to be. Perhaps that says something about the
skill level of those advising you?

And don't even think of hosting the site yourself....

 

[clintonG]

<snip />

First of all, let's make the distinction between "building the site,"
"hosting the site", and the "shopping cart" application that runs on the
site.

** building the site
FrontPage (FP) is an authoring program that is used to build the site.
Dreamweaver is an authoring tool used to build the site. Think of them as
desktop publishing programs in this context. You are advised to put
significant effort into learning what each authoring program can and can not
provide for you.

** hosting the site
Windows and Linux are operating systems (OS). A website requires web server
software that runs on the OS to host the site. An OS is generally referred
to as a "platform" as it can be used to enable many different types of
servers and software applications to run on it. On the Windows platform the
most widely used web server is Microsoft's Internet Information Server
(IIS). On the Linux platform the most widely used web server is called
Apache. A web server is also called an application server.

// google
define: internet information server
define: apache

** shopping cart
OSCommerce is a shopping cart. There are many many many shopping cart
solutions that run on both platforms. Since you are clueless I suggest you
learn much more about shopping carts and their feature sets as applied to
the specific type of website you expect to operate.

// google
define: shopping cart

Finally, if I were one of your friends I would not laugh at you because you
considered using FrontPage. I would laugh at you because you are a clueless
dummy that doesn't know jack sh!t about what you think you are getting into.
Asking for information was a good start and you should take that curiosity
and continue to apply it with at least one to three months of doing nothing
but reading, study and asking questions, stir and repeat. There is no
question that the more time you spend learning and doing up front the more
successful you will be. Then the laughing might stop. Maybe.


<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

 

[Ratatooie]

Hi Rick,

One thing that concerns me about OSCommerce (Or any open source cart) are
the potential security risks. It would seem to me that by their very
nature open source applications would make easier targets for hacking.

So, what you selling? Your opinion about open source is BS.

(Hey, I love FP myself, but don't spout BS.)

Want examples? Check Slashdot today for the WMF remote security exploit
that has been in the wild taking over windows computers for three months
(unpatched as of yet by microsoft with no workaround that doesnt break the
computer or involve "dont get on the net"). One of my users ran into this
thing and we had to format the drive to get control of it again just because
she went to a web page that had an AD IMAGE that was infected with the
thing. That's CLOSED SOURCE for you.

Open vs. Closed is meaningless as far as "hackability". Bad code is bad
code. At least with open source, there is someone looking at it, and when
something is found there is a larger community of people helping to fix.
Right now, you are at the mercy of what micrsoft decides to do and risk
getting put in jail if you make your own patch to fix their copyrighted
closed source OS.

OP needs to get a 3rd party host experienced in eCommerece sites. Hosting
on his own PC is just about the best way to get shut down by the CC company,
lose all customers and end up owing the Russian mafia protection fees. It's
frightening that he's even considering it. (Not that everybody shouldn't but
a guy asking his friends about FrontPage certainly shouldn't.)

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

FYI:

The WMF remote security exploit was discovered on November 8th:
http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/vulninfo/vuln.aspx?id=33579

A patch for the WMF remote security exploit was issues by MS on November 9th:
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=896424
http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/update/bulletins/200511.mspx
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms05-053.mspx

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================

 

[Jens Peter Karlsen [FP-MVP]]

What does that have to do with the issue at hand? As you point out it
takes human interaction to get infected by this exploit so it doesn't
affect a server hosting a website.
As you say with open source, "there is someone looking at it"
unfortunately a large part of those looking are people with bad
intentions.
You would only risk procecution if you made something based on
Microsofts code and tried to sell it as your own.
Your last point is very good. A person that has absolutely no
experience in running a Server shouldn't try to host a Web site much
less an ecommerce site personally.
Use a hosting solution by a reputable hosting service.

Regards Jens Peter Karlsen. Microsoft MVP - Frontpage.

 

[Tom [Pepper] Willett]

Tom: This is a *new* exploit. No patch has been issued at this time.
| Microsoft Security Advisory (912840): Vulnerability in Graphics
| Rendering Engine Could Allow Remote Code Execution
| http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/advisory/912840.mspx

--
===
Tom [Pepper] Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
FrontPage Support:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
About FrontPage 2003:
http://office.microsoft.com/home/office.aspx?assetid=FX01085802
===
| FYI:
|
| The WMF remote security exploit was discovered on November 8th:
| http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/vulninfo/vuln.aspx?id=33579
|
| A patch for the WMF remote security exploit was issues by MS on November
9th:
| http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=896424
| http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/update/bulletins/200511.mspx
| http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms05-053.mspx
|
| --
| ==============================================
| Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| ==============================================
| If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
| a Service Pack or security update, please contact
| Microsoft Product Support Services:
| http://support.microsoft.com
| If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
| security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
| ==============================================
|
| >
| > | >> Hi Rick,
| >>
| >> One thing that concerns me about OSCommerce (Or any open source cart)
are the potential security
| >> risks. It would seem to me that by their very nature open source
applications would make easier
| >> targets for hacking.
| >
| > So, what you selling? Your opinion about open source is BS.
| >
| > (Hey, I love FP myself, but don't spout BS.)
| >
| > Want examples? Check Slashdot today for the WMF remote security exploit
that has been in the wild
| > taking over windows computers for three months (unpatched as of yet by
microsoft with no
| > workaround that doesnt break the computer or involve "dont get on the
net"). One of my users ran
| > into this thing and we had to format the drive to get control of it
again just because she went to
| > a web page that had an AD IMAGE that was infected with the thing. That's
CLOSED SOURCE for you.
| >
| > Open vs. Closed is meaningless as far as "hackability". Bad code is bad
code. At least with open
| > source, there is someone looking at it, and when something is found
there is a larger community of
| > people helping to fix. Right now, you are at the mercy of what micrsoft
decides to do and risk
| > getting put in jail if you make your own patch to fix their copyrighted
closed source OS.
| >
| > OP needs to get a 3rd party host experienced in eCommerece sites.
Hosting on his own PC is just
| > about the best way to get shut down by the CC company, lose all
customers and end up owing the
| > Russian mafia protection fees. It's frightening that he's even
considering it. (Not that everybody
| > shouldn't but a guy asking his friends about FrontPage certainly
shouldn't.)
| >
|
|

 

[Thomas A. Rowe]

However "Ratatooie" mentioned the WMF remote security exploit and stated that it has been in the
wild for 3 months and as of yet unpatch by MS, and that is not so....

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
==============================================
If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
a Service Pack or security update, please contact
Microsoft Product Support Services:
http://support.microsoft.com
If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
==============================================

Tom: This is a *new* exploit. No patch has been issued at this time.
| Microsoft Security Advisory (912840): Vulnerability in Graphics
| Rendering Engine Could Allow Remote Code Execution
| http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/advisory/912840.mspx

--
===
Tom [Pepper] Willett
Microsoft MVP - FrontPage
---
FrontPage Support:
http://www.frontpagemvps.com/
About FrontPage 2003:
http://office.microsoft.com/home/office.aspx?assetid=FX01085802
===
| FYI:
|
| The WMF remote security exploit was discovered on November 8th:
| http://www3.ca.com/securityadvisor/vulninfo/vuln.aspx?id=33579
|
| A patch for the WMF remote security exploit was issues by MS on November
9th:
| http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=896424
| http://www.microsoft.com/athome/security/update/bulletins/200511.mspx
| http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/ms05-053.mspx
|
| --
| ==============================================
| Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| ==============================================
| If you feel your current issue is a results of installing
| a Service Pack or security update, please contact
| Microsoft Product Support Services:
| http://support.microsoft.com
| If the problem can be shown to have been caused by a
| security update, then there is usually no charge for the call.
| ==============================================
|
| >
| > | >> Hi Rick,
| >>
| >> One thing that concerns me about OSCommerce (Or any open source cart)
are the potential security
| >> risks. It would seem to me that by their very nature open source
applications would make easier
| >> targets for hacking.
| >
| > So, what you selling? Your opinion about open source is BS.
| >
| > (Hey, I love FP myself, but don't spout BS.)
| >
| > Want examples? Check Slashdot today for the WMF remote security exploit
that has been in the wild
| > taking over windows computers for three months (unpatched as of yet by
microsoft with no
| > workaround that doesnt break the computer or involve "dont get on the
net"). One of my users ran
| > into this thing and we had to format the drive to get control of it
again just because she went to
| > a web page that had an AD IMAGE that was infected with the thing. That's
CLOSED SOURCE for you.
| >
| > Open vs. Closed is meaningless as far as "hackability". Bad code is bad
code. At least with open
| > source, there is someone looking at it, and when something is found
there is a larger community of
| > people helping to fix. Right now, you are at the mercy of what micrsoft
decides to do and risk
| > getting put in jail if you make your own patch to fix their copyrighted
closed source OS.
| >
| > OP needs to get a 3rd party host experienced in eCommerece sites.
Hosting on his own PC is just
| > about the best way to get shut down by the CC company, lose all
customers and end up owing the
| > Russian mafia protection fees. It's frightening that he's even
considering it. (Not that everybody
| > shouldn't but a guy asking his friends about FrontPage certainly
shouldn't.)
| >
|
|

 

[Joe Rohn]

(Hey, I love FP myself, but don't spout BS.)

It isn't BS...it's an opinion I have based on hacking I have seen done in
other open source programs.

Want examples? Check Slashdot today for the WMF remote security exploit
that has been in the wild taking over windows computers for three months
(unpatched as of yet by microsoft with no workaround that doesnt break the
computer or involve "dont get on the net"). One of my users ran into this
thing and we had to format the drive to get control of it again just
because she went to a web page that had an AD IMAGE that was infected with
the thing. That's CLOSED SOURCE for you.

Has nothing to do with OSCommerce. You have other choices besides windows
don't you? If you feel it is unsafe..try utilizing them.

Open vs. Closed is meaningless as far as "hackability". Bad code is bad
code. At least with open source, there is someone looking at it, and when
something is found there is a larger community of people helping to fix.

Exactly my point and thanks for stating it for me.

Right now, you are at the mercy of what micrsoft decides to do and risk
getting put in jail if you make your own patch to fix their copyrighted
closed source OS.

This rant isn't worth commenting on.

OP needs to get a 3rd party host experienced in eCommerece sites. Hosting
on his own PC is just about the best way to get shut down by the CC
company, lose all customers and end up owing the Russian mafia protection
fees. It's frightening that he's even considering it. (Not that everybody
shouldn't but a guy asking his friends about FrontPage certainly
shouldn't.)

While having a host that is competent with hosting e-commerce types of sites
is important..my guess is that is about 10% of the equation..the other 90%
is with the developer who creates the site. The way it is constructed is by
far the most important factor...simply relying on a 3rd party host that
knows e-commerce..is not sufficient.

--
Joe

Microsoft MVP FrontPage

FrontPage Users Forums:
http://www.timeforweb.com/frontpage