[ANN] Office for Mac 2008 prices announced

D

Diane

Microsoft has released prices and packages for Office 2008 for Mac scheduled
for release in January 2008.

In addition, Microsoft announced a "technology guarantee program," As of
September 25, for anyone who purchases Office 2004 for Mac between now and
March 15 will get an upgrade to the 2008 equivalent for the cost of shipping
and handling when the final version ships.

<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2007/09/prices_for_office_for_mac_2008_annou
nced.html>
 
D

Daiya Mitchell

The Tech Guarantee makes this a very good deal. Office 2004 is generally
considered an improvement over Office X (at least in Word, it has new
features while X is basically a port of 2001), and Office 2004 will
continue to have VBA while Office 2008 won't, so purchasing Office 2004
will let you have the best of both worlds for just S&H (probably an
overpriced $15 or so, but still worth it, I should think).
 
D

Diane

Hidden in all the hype is a downgrade in the package:

The Student/Teacher edition of 2008 will not have Entourage -- i.e. no
ability to connect w/ MS Exchange Server. Office04 Student Edition does
include Entourage.

It will include Entourage. Just not exchange.

One thing to note is the change in name. "Student and Teacher Edition" has
been replaced with "Home and Student Edition"! That means anyone (except
businesses) can buy Office 2008 for home for a much more affordable $150.00.
 
P

Phillip Jones

I don't know whether we need to rush out and get 2008.

Computerworld just sent and update where Excel's Math in the 2007
version is defective. any figures that add, subtract, multiple, or
divide a certain number 65, plus some don't show the proper number but
100,000. any numbers over that number or under work fine. there were
several thousand messages to Excel Support that caught the problem. Will
be a week or more before the next update and MS is unsure whether a fix
will be ready in time.

Daiya said:
The Tech Guarantee makes this a very good deal. Office 2004 is generally
considered an improvement over Office X (at least in Word, it has new
features while X is basically a port of 2001), and Office 2004 will
continue to have VBA while Office 2008 won't, so purchasing Office 2004
will let you have the best of both worlds for just S&H (probably an
overpriced $15 or so, but still worth it, I should think).

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

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<http://www.vpea.org>
 
P

Phillip Jones

But does that include features of the standard package. I was thinking
the Student Teacher package was missing so features to make the price
cheaper.

Kin of like buying a Cadillac without air conditioning to save money.
It will include Entourage. Just not exchange.

One thing to note is the change in name. "Student and Teacher Edition" has
been replaced with "Home and Student Edition"! That means anyone (except
businesses) can buy Office 2008 for home for a much more affordable $150.00.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:p[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>
 
D

Diane

AFAIK, there haven't been any specifics listed. I'll be sure to post them on
the Entourage Help Blog when that is available.
 
D

Daiya Mitchell

I aimed my message at those still using Office X, though I forgot to say
so. We've had several questions from people about whether they should
buy 2004 or wait for 2008. Now they can have both for only a little extra!
 
J

JE McGimpsey

It's much better to cite actual information from MS than vague rumors
sent by "Computerworld" (I'm not familiar with whatever that is).

The bug is very limited. The fix has NOTHING to do with "the next
update", and will be available independently, once it has gone through
the test cycle.

The math is NOT defective, the *display* of two specific values is
(certain values near 65535 and 65536 display as 100000 and 100001,
respectively). This isn't a good thing, but it's certainly not the
disaster that a calculation error would have been:

http://blogs.msdn.com/excel/archive/2007/09/25/calculation-issue-update.a
spx
 
E

Elliott Roper

JE said:
It's much better to cite actual information from MS than vague rumors
sent by "Computerworld" (I'm not familiar with whatever that is).

The bug is very limited. The fix has NOTHING to do with "the next
update", and will be available independently, once it has gone through
the test cycle.

The math is NOT defective, the *display* of two specific values is
(certain values near 65535 and 65536 display as 100000 and 100001,
respectively). This isn't a good thing, but it's certainly not the
disaster that a calculation error would have been:

http://blogs.msdn.com/excel/archive/2007/09/25/calculation-issue-update.a
spx

Well, that's putting a pretty fine spin on it.

And it is not only a display bug according to two of the posters to
that article. ( I can't test it myself without Excel 2007 and a Windows
OS)

to quote one
A1 =850*77.1 Ê --> 100000
B1 =A1+1 Ê Ê Ê --> 100001 (realy a display bug???)
C1 =A1-1 Ê Ê Ê --> 65534
D1 =B1-C1 Ê Ê Ê--> 2

...the other pointed out that ROUND(A1) produces 100000 for real.
That *is* a calculation error if true.

That is *very* sloppy work by MS. If ever there were a single edge
condition that had to regression tested at every release then 65336 ==
2^16 would have to be a top candidate.
 
J

JE McGimpsey

Elliott Roper said:
Well, that's putting a pretty fine spin on it.

Just trying not to panic, or engage in schadenfreude
And it is not only a display bug according to two of the posters to
that article. ( I can't test it myself without Excel 2007 and a Windows
OS)

If they'd read the article, they'd see they're wrong.
to quote one
A1 =850*77.1   --> 100000
B1 =A1+1       --> 100001 (realy a display bug???)
C1 =A1-1       --> 65534
D1 =B1-C1      --> 2

SInce A1+1 = 65536, and 65536 is one of the two values that produces the
display bug, it's hardly surprising that the display of A1+1 is also
faulty, but A1-1 isn't.
..the other pointed out that ROUND(A1) produces 100000 for real.
That *is* a calculation error if true.

Uh, no. Since ROUND(A1) produces (at the internal representation level)
the *same* result as A1 (i.e, 65535 or 65536), it says nothing about a
calculation error.
That is *very* sloppy work by MS. If ever there were a single edge
condition that had to regression tested at every release then 65336 ==
2^16 would have to be a top candidate.

I absolutely agree that it's sloppy. But I don't necessarily agree it
would be a top candidate for thorough checking.

First of all, as far as the calculation is concerned, it can't have
anything to do with 2-byte boundaries - all of XL's numeric values
(including integers) are stored in IEEE double-precision floating point
representation, which means 64-bit values, not 16. And while the Pentium
bug is still relatively fresh memory, no subsequent FPU has had a
problem with 64-bit math.

So there's no *inherent* "edge" at 2-bytes when it comes to converting
those 64-bit numbers to ASCII decimal representations.

That said, MS obviously *created* an edge in its internal rounding
routines, though I can't even begin to think of why or how.

Again, trying to look at it objectively, and based on what's been
released, it's a really limited bug that will likely be forgotten in a
month or two.
 
E

Elliott Roper

McGimpsey said:
SInce A1+1 = 65536, and 65536 is one of the two values that produces the
display bug, it's hardly surprising that the display of A1+1 is also
faulty, but A1-1 isn't.


Uh, no. Since ROUND(A1) produces (at the internal representation level)
the *same* result as A1 (i.e, 65535 or 65536), it says nothing about a
calculation error.

Oh Damn! You are perfectly correct. I too misread the article, assuming
open intervals in their "6 floating point numbers between
65534.99999999995 and 65535, and 6 between 65535.99999999995 and 65536
that cause this problem" whereas they meant to include the end points.

What a fine example of the pot calling the kettle black on edge cases!
I shall now crawl back into my hole.
 
C

Carl Witthoft

Diane said:
It will include Entourage. Just not exchange.

Can you explain what that means? Entourage is the email and calendar
client. Is "Entourage2008" slashed down to being just a POP/IMAP tool
or something?
 
D

Diane

Can you explain what that means? Entourage is the email and calendar
client. Is "Entourage2008" slashed down to being just a POP/IMAP tool
or something?

Without a formal announcement from Microsoft, my guess would be exchange
functionality will be disabled. Saying it's slashed down implies that it's
severely crippled.

My guess is that since it's a way to offer Home users a reduced price they
left out the exchange functionality, but then what are "home" users.

Right now all we can do is speculate until Microsoft clarifies what is
actually included.

If the lack of exchange functionality really bothers you, I suggest sending
Feedback to Microsoft under Help in the menu bar.
 
P

Phillip Jones

I know if and when I upgrade I will most likely keep both in fact on my
Desktop machine in all likelihood I will be unable to load and use 2008
unless I run it from my Firewire external Drive. The Hard Drive internal
still has 10.39 and I've had 7 failed attempts to install OSX.4 despite
buying the Family pack install.

Daiya said:
I aimed my message at those still using Office X, though I forgot to say
so. We've had several questions from people about whether they should
buy 2004 or wait for 2008. Now they can have both for only a little extra!

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:p[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>
 
P

Phillip Jones

It wasn't a rumor and it was the exact error you cited.

It was my recollection of the figures involved that was faulty. It was
reported at cNet, ZDnet, and Computer world.

I'm not one to report rumors. Whether the two updates are independent or
not Oct 9 was cited as next general update cycle.

My apologies if I did anything wrong.

And if EXCEL 2007 has already been adopted by fortune 500 companies. it
would seem to to be a somewhat big deal. as they would in all likelihood
run into using that number somewhere along the line. more so than the
average Joe.

I am just wondering if we will have the same bug in 20008 for Mac.

JE said:
It's much better to cite actual information from MS than vague rumors
sent by "Computerworld" (I'm not familiar with whatever that is).

The bug is very limited. The fix has NOTHING to do with "the next
update", and will be available independently, once it has gone through
the test cycle.

The math is NOT defective, the *display* of two specific values is
(certain values near 65535 and 65536 display as 100000 and 100001,
respectively). This isn't a good thing, but it's certainly not the
disaster that a calculation error would have been:

http://blogs.msdn.com/excel/archive/2007/09/25/calculation-issue-update.a
spx

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:p[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>
 
D

Diane

I know if and when I upgrade I will most likely keep both in fact on my
Desktop machine in all likelihood I will be unable to load and use 2008
unless I run it from my Firewire external Drive. The Hard Drive internal
still has 10.39 and I've had 7 failed attempts to install OSX.4 despite
buying the Family pack install.

Please explain the 10.4 family pack and where you got this. I wasn't aware
Leopard had been released.

For your current set up, I suggest you do an "Archive & Install".

Make sure to choose the options to maintain your user settings. Once the
install has finished, your system will be at whatever level the disk you
have is. So if your Install DVD/CD disk is 10.3.3, that's what version of OS
will be on your Mac. You will need to download the appropriate Combo Updater
from Apple's site to restore the system to a higher version. After you run
the combo, allow Software Update to download and install any additional
updates.

If you are still having problems after this, then you need to wipe your
drive and install everything again.
 
J

JE McGimpsey

Diane said:
Please explain the 10.4 family pack and where you got this. I wasn't aware
Leopard had been released.

10.4.x is Tiger...

The 10.4 family pack had, IIRC, 5 licenses in one package at at
significant discount to the same number of individual licenses.
 
J

JE McGimpsey

Phillip Jones said:
It wasn't a rumor and it was the exact error you cited.

It was my recollection of the figures involved that was faulty. It was
reported at cNet, ZDnet, and Computer world.

Sorry - it sounded like a report from several of the overhyped sources
around.
I'm not one to report rumors. Whether the two updates are independent or
not Oct 9 was cited as next general update cycle.

My apologies if I did anything wrong.

Nothing. Sorry for the implication.
And if EXCEL 2007 has already been adopted by fortune 500 companies. it
would seem to to be a somewhat big deal. as they would in all likelihood
run into using that number somewhere along the line. more so than the
average Joe.

If it couldn't be corrected quickly, it *would* be a big deal. Given
that it apparently can, it will likely be forgotten soon. Yes it's more
likely to occur in a corporate environment, but it's still only a
display bug - follow-on calculations will be accurate.


I am just wondering if we will have the same bug in 20008 for Mac.

Undoubtedly not. The fix, if it's necessary (and there's no information
one way or the other as to that), will be available for several months
before release.
 
J

Jon Connell

Diane said:
In addition, Microsoft announced a "technology guarantee program," As of
September 25, for anyone who purchases Office 2004 for Mac between now and
March 15 will get an upgrade to the 2008 equivalent for the cost of shipping
and handling when the final version ships.

Colour me impressed with Microsoft for that. I get pretty hacked off
with Apple's miserly upgrade policy (buy a product more than a
nanosecond before it's replaced and tough doo-doo on you).

As for the Student/Teacher vs. Student/Home feature difference that's
got many outraged, I'm a bit upset about that as I would have used the
Exchange connector and I do qualify as a student. That said, the upgrade
is only $239, so I can live with that (especially at the current USD-GBP
exchange rate). I just need an excuse to be in the US in February now ...

Jon
 
P

Phillip Jones

JE said:
Sorry - it sounded like a report from several of the overhyped sources
around.


Nothing. Sorry for the implication.


If it couldn't be corrected quickly, it *would* be a big deal. Given
that it apparently can, it will likely be forgotten soon. Yes it's more
likely to occur in a corporate environment, but it's still only a
display bug - follow-on calculations will be accurate.




Undoubtedly not. The fix, if it's necessary (and there's no information
one way or the other as to that), will be available for several months
before release.

Plus I thought of of something, because the Mac OS is UNIX in nature in
al likelihood the in math system use is totally different than in Windows.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:p[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>
 

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