Auto Archive not archiving

[RH]

Has anyone found a solution to the archiving problem wherein some emails
aren't being archived? The modified date is not the cause of the problem as
my emails have a modified date much older than the archive date. It only
happens on certain folders and/or emails. I have Outlook 2007 on Windows XP
SP2. Any solution?

 

[Vanguard]

in message

Has anyone found a solution to the archiving problem wherein some
emails
aren't being archived? The modified date is not the cause of the
problem as
my emails have a modified date much older than the archive date. It
only
happens on certain folders and/or emails. I have Outlook 2007 on
Windows XP
SP2. Any solution?

Right-click on the folder and make sure *its* auto-archive option is
enabled. The global auto-archive option is like the breaker box
controlling the electricity even gets into your house. The folder
auto-archive option is like the wall switch that turns the light on in
a particular room in your house. You need to have both on to get
auto-archiving to work on a folder.

Make sure the global archive option is set to the lowest number of
days specified for any folder's archive option, or to a shorter
period. If you configure a folder to auto-archive after 3 days but
the global archive operation runs every 10 days then items dated older
than 3 days in the folder will have to wait another 7 days before
actually getting archived.

 

[Vince Averello [MVP-Outlook]]

Just to be sure, have you checked the auto-archive properties on those
particular folder(s)?

 

[RH]

Yes, all folders are set to the default settings. But I just thought of
something! These certain emails were imported in from Outlook Express after
I installed Outlook 2007. Could this be the issue?

 

[Marco De Vitis]

Il 13/08/2007 23:02, RH ha scritto:

Yes, all folders are set to the default settings. But I just thought of
something! These certain emails were imported in from Outlook Express after
I installed Outlook 2007. Could this be the issue?

I hope someone will reply, because I recently experienced the same
problem in Outlook 2003 after importing the message base from Outlook
Express: even though I checked all archive settings and manually forced
archiviation for a number of times, Outlook did not archive anything; it
just created the mail folders in the archive folder tree, but they were
left empty.
I eventually gave up because it was not so important after all, but if a
solution exists I would like to know it so that maybe I can try again.

 

[RH]

Il 13/08/2007 23:02, RH ha scritto:


I hope someone will reply, because I recently experienced the same
problem in Outlook 2003 after importing the message base from Outlook
Express: even though I checked all archive settings and manually forced
archiviation for a number of times, Outlook did not archive anything; it
just created the mail folders in the archive folder tree, but they were
left empty.
I eventually gave up because it was not so important after all, but if a
solution exists I would like to know it so that maybe I can try again.

I have read that others are having problems with Auto Archiving certain
email messages even though the modified date is older than the default
archive date and all the folders are set to the default setting. I wonder if
these certain emails were ones that were imported in from Outlook Express
because that appears to be the problem. In the meantime, I guess I will have
to manually move these messages to the archive folder and hopefully will have
no more problems in the future.

 

[Brian Tillman]

Yes, all folders are set to the default settings. But I just thought
of something! These certain emails were imported in from Outlook
Express after I installed Outlook 2007. Could this be the issue?

Importing from Outlook Express will update the modified date (and received
date, for that matter) of your messages. Consequently, autoarchive will
consider them to be new and bypass them when it runs. Eventually, they will
be old enough to match your autoarchive criteria.

 

[Marco De Vitis]

Il 14/08/2007 17:57, Brian Tillman ha scritto:

Importing from Outlook Express will update the modified date (and
received date, for that matter) of your messages. Consequently,
autoarchive will consider them to be new and bypass them when it runs.
Eventually, they will be old enough to match your autoarchive criteria.

Good to know, thanks.
But that's a rather user-unfriendly behaviour, because the imported
mails still show the correct original date when viewed in Outlook, so to
the eyes of the user it's definitely unclear why Outlook is not
archiving them.

 

[Brian Tillman]

Good to know, thanks.
But that's a rather user-unfriendly behaviour, because the imported
mails still show the correct original date when viewed in Outlook, so
to the eyes of the user it's definitely unclear why Outlook is not
archiving them.

You're lucky. Usually importing messages with Outlook from Outlook Express
will update the received date as well, assigning the date and time of
import. That's why som many messages in this newsgroup recommedn exporting
messages from Outlook Express instead, because that way the received date is
preserved.

 

[Vanguard]

in message

Brian Tillman:

Good to know, thanks.
But that's a rather user-unfriendly behaviour, because the imported
mails still show the correct original date when viewed in Outlook,
so to the eyes of the user it's definitely unclear why Outlook is
not archiving them.

If the user is moving around or modifying the e-mails then obviously
they aren't "old". The user JUST changed them. Add the Modified Date
column if you get confused between when the message was originally
received versus when you last played around with them.

If you check date attributes on a file, you'll also notice there is a
create date and modified date. If you were backing up files based on
being older than whenever they were last changed then you don't go by
the create date. You would end up archiving a file that you just
changed today but that was created years ago.

 

[Marco De Vitis]

Il 14/08/2007 21:22, Vanguard ha scritto:

If you check date attributes on a file, you'll also notice there is a
create date and modified date. If you were backing up files based on

That's a totally different story: received email messages are not meant
to be *modified*. Even when you move them from one folder (or one
application) to another, you are not modifying them, their content
should be left exactly the same, headers included.

 

[Marco De Vitis]

Il 14/08/2007 20:48, Brian Tillman ha scritto:

You're lucky. Usually importing messages with Outlook from Outlook
Express will update the received date as well, assigning the date and
time of import. That's why som many messages in this newsgroup
recommedn exporting messages from Outlook Express instead, because that
way the received date is preserved.

Ow!
So nice from Microsoft to warn me about that when I started the import
process... what? They didn't? What a pity!

 

[Brian Tillman]

That's a totally different story: received email messages are not
meant to be *modified*. Even when you move them from one folder (or
one application) to another, you are not modifying them, their content
should be left exactly the same, headers included.

Well, actually you are modifying them.

 

[Marco De Vitis]

Il 14/08/2007 23:00, Brian Tillman ha scritto:

Well, actually you are modifying them.

You are not, from the "standard user" point of view, which is the
important one for an application like Outlook.
I'd bet very very few "standard" (i.e. not expert/advanced) users ever
thought of downloaded mails as of something which could be modified.

 

[Vanguard]

in message

Il 14/08/2007 21:22, Vanguard ha scritto:


That's a totally different story: received email messages are not
meant to be *modified*. Even when you move them from one folder (or
one application) to another, you are not modifying them, their
content should be left exactly the same, headers included.

Yes, they are modified. You JUST moved them around so obviously they
haven't been stagnant by sitting wherever they were. Auto-archiving
is meant to archive items that you have not TOUCHED in the specified
number of days (opening them does not touch them). You can argue your
point but it won't change how Outlook functions.

And, by the way, received e-mail CAN be modified. Open it in its own
window and use the "Edit -> Edit Message" menu.

 

[Vanguard]

in message

Brian Tillman:

You are not, from the "standard user" point of view, which is the
important one for an application like Outlook.
I'd bet very very few "standard" (i.e. not expert/advanced) users
ever thought of downloaded mails as of something which could be
modified.

Stop confusing folders and items in Outlook with folders and files in
the OS file system. There are no folders in Outlook's message store!
That is merely a organizational representation to show the hierarchy
of the data. Outlook's message store is a database. By moving a
record from one table to another or by altering keyword fields in a
record, you HAVE modified the record.

 

[Marco De Vitis]

Il 15/08/2007 9:25, Vanguard ha scritto:

Stop confusing folders and items in Outlook with folders and files in
the OS file system. There are no folders in Outlook's message store!

But this is the metaphor Outlook's GUI uses to present objects to the
user, including mails. And so the whole application should conform to
it, for the sake of consistency.

the data. Outlook's message store is a database. By moving a record
from one table to another or by altering keyword fields in a record, you
HAVE modified the record.

"You can argue your point", and it might be technically right, but it
won't change the fact that this is a wrong and unexpected behaviour from
the user point of view.
If I have a mail which shows a 1-year old date in the default view
settings, and tell Outlook to archive elements older than 6 months, I
expect that mail to be archived, even if I moved it to a different
folder yesterday; period.

 

[Vanguard]

Il 15/08/2007 9:25, Vanguard ha scritto:


But this is the metaphor Outlook's GUI uses to present objects to
the user, including mails. And so the whole application should
conform to it, for the sake of consistency.

So, in the OS file system, should Microsoft also show all folders as
files since that is what they really are? So should Microsoft require
that all Outlook users know database queries and how to do selects,
deletes, and purges in databases?

So explain how YOU would better provide a representation of data in a
database and its organization or keyword associations that wouldn't
use the hierarchical representation used now by Outlook? How would
YOU show the hierarchy without folders, subfolders, and items? How
would YOU show that the items are records in a database without
confusing users that haven't a clue of what is a database?

You're focusing on the Received date. You've already been informed on
how to add a column to show the Modified date. Your choice to ignore
it.

 

[Marco De Vitis]

Il 15/08/2007 20:41, Vanguard ha scritto:

So explain how YOU would better provide a representation of data in a
database and its organization or keyword associations that wouldn't use
the hierarchical representation used now by Outlook? How would YOU show
the hierarchy without folders, subfolders, and items? How would YOU
show that the items are records in a database without confusing users
that haven't a clue of what is a database?

Are you raving?
I'm ok with the way Outlook represents data: it mimics the usual
file/folder hierarchical structure to which users are accustomed since
years.

The problem is with the import function, which has an unexpected side
effect I would almost call "bug". Even more, thinking that you can avoid
this side effect by first exporting messages from OE and then importing
them in Outlook (at least, that's what Brian wrote; I didn't try);
there's no real reason why this kind of import should behave differently
from the direct one.

You're focusing on the Received date. You've already been informed on
how to add a column to show the Modified date. Your choice to ignore it.

Guess what? I'm so lucky that I don't need to use Outlook or OE .
I encountered the problem on a friend's PC. She switched from OE to
Outlook and then wanted to archive all mails received before Jan 2007,
but this is not possible anymore. They're not a lot of mails, luckily,
so I already decided that she will keep them there until archive time
will come or maybe move them by hand when she has time, not a big
problem. I could also recover OE's dbx files from a backup (I already
removed them), and then try the export+import solution, but she had a
number of folders in OE so I think it's not worth the hassle.
Showing the Modified date is not a solution, because she wanted to
archive mails *received* before a certain date, which is what most users
commonly need.

 

[Brian Tillman]

Even more, thinking that you can
avoid this side effect by first exporting messages from OE and then
importing them in Outlook (at least, that's what Brian wrote; I
didn't try); there's no real reason why this kind of import should
behave differently from the direct one.

I didn't say this. I said export them from OE. They go directly into
Outlook with no importing at all.

I do agree that importing shouldn't change the received date, which it often
does, but I certainly expect importing to change the modified date because
an import is a BIG modification. I certainly don't want to import a couple
of thousand older messages only to have autoarchive zip them out from under
me the very next time it runs.