Autoformat question

[brinded]

Sometimes when I delete a block of text (or paste something) the
preceding paragraph will suddenly change font, or even colour.

I think this has something to do with autoformat - but reading through
other posts hasn't led me to the exact solution.

I've gone into Tools menu: AutoCorrect - but not sure whether it's
AutoCorrect, Auto Format As You Type, AutoText, or AutoFormat that's
to blame.

Any advice?

Thanks, B

 

[John McGhie]

Formatting is stored in the paragraph mark ending the paragraph.

If you do not want the formatting to carry forward, don't delete the
paragraph mark.

Turn on Show/Hide, so you can see what is happening.

Cheers

Sometimes when I delete a block of text (or paste something) the
preceding paragraph will suddenly change font, or even colour.

I think this has something to do with autoformat - but reading through
other posts hasn't led me to the exact solution.

I've gone into Tools menu: AutoCorrect - but not sure whether it's
AutoCorrect, Auto Format As You Type, AutoText, or AutoFormat that's
to blame.

Any advice?

Thanks, B

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Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[brinded]

Thanks John, much appreciated.

I've gone into prefs and now have a screen littered with little para
marks - something I can probably get used to.

But... How come the font sometimes changes when deleting these hidden
(now visible) characters? Surely the 'default' font is that saved in
normal, which happens to be 'Times New Roman' - so why would Word want
to go creative on me and start transforming sections into 'Times' all
of a sudden?

Just trying to understand.

Thanks again, B

 

[CyberTaz]

Hello B -

I think you may have taken John's comments a bit too seriously

Go back into Prefs & remove any of the Non-printing Characters checks except
for All, then use the ¶ button on the standard toolbar to toggle them on/off
as required. They most certainly can be a distraction when
composing/proofreading/reading a document, but they're indispensible when
editing/revising/analyzing one.

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[brinded]

Thanks CT,

That's a big improvement. But I'm still at a loss as to underlying
problems. Any suggestions for where to start looking for better
understanding?

regards, B

 

[CyberTaz]

OK - You asked for it - You got it

This is one of the most comprehensive & informative sources you'll find
pertaining to the use of Word:

http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/

I'd suggest you start with these topics in this order:

Basic Concepts
Formatting
Styles in MS Word

Take in the rest in whatever order suits you & when done peruse the
information available Here:

http://word.mvps.org/mac/UsingWord-macIndex.html#Protect

Once you're up to it download & *review* the article from Clive Huggan
entitled "Bend Word to Your Will" (there's a link on that site). Familiarize
yourself with its content, then keep it handy for reference. [I have it
handy in the Work menu of every copy of every version of Word I work with -
which currently numbers 9.]

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[John McGhie]

As I said: because the formatting is stored IN the paragraph mark

If you have a paragraph in TNR, and one in Arial, and you delete the
paragraph mark between them; the text that was in the first paragraph mark
gets the formatting stored in the next closest paragraph mark BELOW it.

So it becomes Arial

The confusion happens because of a kludge they installed to try to make it
less confusing. What used to happen was that when you deleted the paragraph
mark, the formatting was copied "backwards", so it was the "down wind"
paragraph that changed.

That confused the hell out of some people. So they installed this
Heath-Robinson kludge where Word first moves the formatting from the first
paragraph to the second paragraph mark, then deletes the paragraph mark.

The hard-and-fast "rule" all over Word is that the "properties" of an object
are stored in its "terminating character".

So: The terminating character of a paragraph is the paragraph mark, and it
stores a pointer to the formatting for that paragraph mark. The actual
formatting properties are stored in the style table at the end of the
document. Whether the formatting is done with a style or not. All
formatting in Word is a style behind the scenes.

The terminating character of a section is the section break, and it stores
all of the page properties associated with that section, such as paper size
and margin widths.

The terminating character for a document is invisible: it sits just below
the final paragraph mark, outside the "document", and thus you can't see it.
It stores thousands and thousands of properties: all of the formatting, all
of the pictures... Basically everything in the document that is not "text".

Which is why when we do a "Maggie" and copy everything EXCEPT the last
paragraph mark, we manage to fix most document problems. That manoeuvre
copies the "text" into a document that has a pristine uncorrupted property
container. Word rebuilds the properties, retaining only those that apply to
the copied text, and the document is fixed.

Cheers

Thanks CT,

That's a big improvement. But I'm still at a loss as to underlying
problems. Any suggestions for where to start looking for better
understanding?

regards, B

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[Clive Huggan]

Dear [whoever],

I only occasionally want paragraph marks and tabs to show, as I find them
distracting except when making adjustments to formatting (and that's fairly
rare, because I use Word's styles intensively, and use tables that I've
pre-formatted using AutoText). But most people don't seem to share that
view...

I switch the non-printing characters (selected in Preferences as described
by Bob) on and off by keying Command-8.

If you want to select a complete sentence quickly (i.e., without a paragraph
mark if it's at the end of a paragraph, or separate from other sentences in
a paragraph), the best way is to hold down the Command key and click
anywhere in the sentence, dragging if necessary to include other sentences.

There are some comments about paragraph marks and their role in formatting
on pages 35-36 of some notes on the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend
Word to Your Will", which are available as a free download from the Word
MVPs' website (http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html). Don't
be put off by the length of "Bend Word to Your Will" -- it's a dictionary,
not a novel, and the table of contents is comprehensive (and searching via
Command-f works too). You don't mention what version of Word you are using:
these notes don't yet deal with Word 2008 because of the many changes to the
interface, but it's not too difficult to "translate" them to the most recent
version.

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================

 

[Clive Huggan]

My comments were written before John and Bob's got through. No dramas:
they're consistent. Main thing I want to say is that I omitted the page
references in my mention, in paragraph 1, of using styles (start on page 89)
and tables that I've pre-formatted using AutoText (page 124).

Word rewards some study of its underpinnings: as an intensive user of Word I
save about 20% of my time compared with "using it like a typewriter". But
you have to show who's boss: as John McGhie once said, "Microsoft Word is
like a pimply teenager that wears its hat backwards and plays music too
loudly. One of you is going to be in charge. Your life will improve a lot if
you decide that it¹s going to be you."

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
============

 

[CyberTaz]

Howdy Mr. Huggan -

<snip>

If you want to select a complete sentence quickly (i.e., without a paragraph
mark if it's at the end of a paragraph, or separate from other sentences in
a paragraph), the best way is to hold down the Command key and click
anywhere in the sentence, dragging if necessary to include other sentences.

<snip>

That's where the versatility of Shift-Click proves invaluable to me:

Command-Click a sentence, Shift-Click another elsewhere to select it ans all
in between. Triple-Click to select a paragraph, shift-click to extend the
selection on a "by para" basis, double-click a word to shift-click & exend
the selection by whole word...

I don't think I *drag* to select text in a doc anymore unless it's in the
left margin - even then only to select by line

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Clive Huggan]

M'learned colleague Jones, Esq:

I confess I also use Shift-clicking. It depends on the phase of the moon.
But right now I am in wintry Melbourne, where cloud cover is 100%, 24 hours
a day, and we haven't seen the moon (or sun) since arriving. ;-)

I suppose if I'm only copying a couple of sentences (which is my most
frequent move) I still drag, because -- as you know -- with the Command key
still held down, as soon as the dragged I-beam ventures into a new sentence
the whole new sentence is selected, just as with the sequence you describe
("Command-Click a sentence, Shift-Click another elsewhere to select it and
all in between"). It's the only instance of dragging that I follow: I can't
*stand* to be looking over the shoulder of someone who ever-so-carefully
drags from one character to another without first double-clicking or
whatever to jump in multiples of words or sentences. It's so time-consuming
and often inaccurate.

Cheers,

Clive
=====

 

[CyberTaz]

<snip>

I can't
*stand* to be looking over the shoulder of someone who ever-so-carefully
drags from one character to another

<snip>

I share your pain... Until they get to the top/bottom edge - Then the
hilarity serves as a miracle cure ;-)

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[John McGhie]

Bob:

Take no notice at all of the old bounder...

He's down there plugging ice-cream into grand-kids and indulging the
much-doted-upon granddaughter.

It doesn't get any better than that, and he hasn't even looked at the
weather

*I* am the one you should feel sorry for: I am sweltering in Singapore; and
we won't turn the aircon on because we're trying to save the planet!

Cheers

M'learned colleague Jones, Esq:

I confess I also use Shift-clicking. It depends on the phase of the moon.
But right now I am in wintry Melbourne, where cloud cover is 100%, 24 hours
a day, and we haven't seen the moon (or sun) since arriving. ;-)

I suppose if I'm only copying a couple of sentences (which is my most
frequent move) I still drag, because -- as you know -- with the Command key
still held down, as soon as the dragged I-beam ventures into a new sentence
the whole new sentence is selected, just as with the sequence you describe
("Command-Click a sentence, Shift-Click another elsewhere to select it and
all in between"). It's the only instance of dragging that I follow: I can't
*stand* to be looking over the shoulder of someone who ever-so-carefully
drags from one character to another without first double-clicking or
whatever to jump in multiples of words or sentences. It's so time-consuming
and often inaccurate.

Cheers,

Clive
=====

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[brinded]

Thanks All, for the many helpful pointers.

I will endeavour to follow through on the tomes by Kelly, Huggan et
al.

Hopefully, that will make clear the following perplexing issue: said
document, (containing a dozen-or-so paragraphs), fails to take cmd-A
seriously wrt formatting. I can 'select all,' change the font colour
to black/auto, set font to TNR, and then go about the business of
editing, when all of a sudden a deletion will cause the font to
change. Curiouser and curiouser.

BTW cmd-8 is very useful, also techniques given for selecting
sentences and paras. (Oh, the time I could have saved had I only
known!)

Word 2004 11.3.5 (070413)

 

[Clive Huggan]

And the time you'll save if you do your formatting via styles! ;-))

I don't know the answer to your specific problem, nor how often it occurs so
as to be a nuisance, but I am almost totally certain that if you amended the
definition of the particular style and applied it to the paragraphs desired
(a once-off-per-document task lasting say 10 seconds), you wouldn't
experience it. If you're interested, see 'Styles and templates ‹ the keys to
consistency and saving time', starting on page 89 of "Bend Word to Your
Will".

Clive
=====

 

[John McGhie]

That sounds as though you have one or more paragraphs formatted with list
formatting.

We haven't discussed list formatting yet, but it behaves exactly the same as
a style, yet is applied "over the top of" or "linked to" a style. So you
have several things influencing the same text at the same type: Paragraph
Style, Character Style, List Style, Paragraph Direct, Character Direct and
List Direct.

Word works its way towards the end of that list, and the one you "see" is
the last one applied. It can be a little confusing unless you visualise
formatting as coats of paint over the top of the text.

Run Edit>Clear>Clear formatting on that text to get it all back to Normal
and nothing else, then you know where you are.

Cheers

Thanks All, for the many helpful pointers.

I will endeavour to follow through on the tomes by Kelly, Huggan et
al.

Hopefully, that will make clear the following perplexing issue: said
document, (containing a dozen-or-so paragraphs), fails to take cmd-A
seriously wrt formatting. I can 'select all,' change the font colour
to black/auto, set font to TNR, and then go about the business of
editing, when all of a sudden a deletion will cause the font to
change. Curiouser and curiouser.

BTW cmd-8 is very useful, also techniques given for selecting
sentences and paras. (Oh, the time I could have saved had I only
known!)

Word 2004 11.3.5 (070413)

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]