Automatic bullets

[Scott Heath]

I understand this: When I designate a list as bulleted (by clicking on the
'bulleted list' icon), a bullet automatically appears whenever I press
return. If I click on the 'increase indent' icon, the type of bullet
changes. I can select a different bullet for that line by going to
Format>Bullets and Numbering.

My question is: Is there a way to modify the default hierarchy of bullet
styles? I thought I could change them all via the 'customize' option, but
my idea of how this might work obviously doesn't match Word's. I can only
affect the line I'm on (or, if I select the entire document, Word just adds
a bullet to every line and ignores existing bullets).

Dual 1.42 PPC G4, 1Gb RAM
OSX 10.4.10
Word 2004 11.3.5 (070413)

 

[JE McGimpsey]

I understand this: When I designate a list as bulleted (by clicking on the
'bulleted list' icon), a bullet automatically appears whenever I press
return. If I click on the 'increase indent' icon, the type of bullet
changes. I can select a different bullet for that line by going to
Format>Bullets and Numbering.

My question is: Is there a way to modify the default hierarchy of bullet
styles? I thought I could change them all via the 'customize' option, but
my idea of how this might work obviously doesn't match Word's. I can only
affect the line I'm on (or, if I select the entire document, Word just adds
a bullet to every line and ignores existing bullets).

See

http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/concepts/bullets/index.html

Especially the section on 'How to create several "levels" of bullets'

 

[Scott Heath]

That tutorial is based on Windows versions, but has a few ideas that might
apply. Basically, it seems to suggest not messing with the built in
bullet-style tools, and creating custom styles instead, since the
click-on-a-button formatting is so 'unstable' and the dialog boxes are so
'inscrutable'.

That is what I was working on anyway when I thought 'there must be an easier
way, so why not just ask?'. Ah well. Thanks for pointing me to the
tutorial, even if the OS and transatlantic barriers make it more challenging
to follow than I would have hoped. I love Shauna's dry humor, too.

By the way, her website doesn't look too good in Firefox, Safari or even
IE-Mac. It may look better on a Windows screen.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

When I clicked on that link, it did look all screwy--but when I went to
the site home and navigated back to How to Control Bullets, it looked fine.

Whoops--JE gave you an old link, it's been improved since. See here:

http://www.shaunakelly.com/word/bullets/controlbullets.html

WinWord/MacWord use the same principles, just menu/key commands are
different, so the advice is all still applicable. For unbreakable
bullets, go the long way around. Easier ways tend to come back and bite
you if this a long document that needs to be used over time. Trust the
tutorial.

Daiya

 

[JE McGimpsey]

Thanks for the update, Daiya.

 

[Scott Heath]

The new page is much better. I did run into a snag, though: my newly
created list-bullet style creates uneven hanging indents on multi-line
sub-paragraphs. Using the 'Modify Style' pallette, when you use the
multi-level select box to specify indent and bullet style, it seems to be
off-by-one when it assigns tab-indent values. I'll re-read Shauna's new
tutorial and see where I did it differently. I'll also try the 'modify style
by example' method.

Or I may just get back to my real work.

 

[Clive Huggan]

On 2/10/07 4:45 AM, in article C3269C4E.D7D9%[email protected], "Scott

Thanks for pointing me to the
tutorial, even if the OS and transatlantic barriers make it more challenging
to follow than I would have hoped. I love Shauna's dry humor, too.

Well, Scott, Shauna's expertise comes to you via the Mediterranean, Indian
Ocean and Great Southern Ocean (though I realise your comment applied to the
original article). Lots of dry humour down here (and dry everything else).
;-)

My main point in posting is to say that overcoming Word's huge weaknesses in
numbering takes some discipline and effort, but the outcome is a highly
reliable solution. Just don't cut corners.

If your knowledge of managing styles -- an integral part of the
bulleting/numbering solution, as you probably know by now -- is incomplete,
you might find some useful information starting on page 89 of some notes on
the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html).

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Clive Huggan
============

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Scott:

Maybe I should begin with a disclaimer: Shauna is a friend of mine

However, I can vouch for the fact that Word Mac and Word Windows use exactly
the same code for List bullets and Numbering, so what Shauna says applies
exactly.

However, as Clive says, it is really important not to cut corners This
is a massively complex and powerful mechanism. It works really well. But
customising it is a chore, and if you don't do it right, things get very
messy

Part of the reason for the problems is that Microsoft tried to make it
"easy" by hiding the complexity. They don't even MENTION the "List
Templates" in the Help, unless you look closely in the VBA Help.

But the list templates drive the whole mechanism. They function a little
bit like styles, but they can be associated with styles or not. If they are
not associated with styles, they rapidly get away from you and ruin your
serenity.

That was the problem when you said your adjustment affected only the
paragraph you were in: your style was not associated with its list template,
so when you made a change, Word created a new list template, which was not
applied to the other paragraphs.

Hope this hasn't added to the confusion

That tutorial is based on Windows versions, but has a few ideas that might
apply. Basically, it seems to suggest not messing with the built in
bullet-style tools, and creating custom styles instead, since the
click-on-a-button formatting is so 'unstable' and the dialog boxes are so
'inscrutable'.

That is what I was working on anyway when I thought 'there must be an easier
way, so why not just ask?'. Ah well. Thanks for pointing me to the
tutorial, even if the OS and transatlantic barriers make it more challenging
to follow than I would have hoped. I love Shauna's dry humor, too.

By the way, her website doesn't look too good in Firefox, Safari or even
IE-Mac. It may look better on a Windows screen.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Scott:

You need to set a tab at the same exact measurement as the indent

The tab aligns the first line, the indent aligns the rest.

Cheers

The new page is much better. I did run into a snag, though: my newly
created list-bullet style creates uneven hanging indents on multi-line
sub-paragraphs. Using the 'Modify Style' pallette, when you use the
multi-level select box to specify indent and bullet style, it seems to be
off-by-one when it assigns tab-indent values. I'll re-read Shauna's new
tutorial and see where I did it differently. I'll also try the 'modify style
by example' method.

Or I may just get back to my real work.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Scott Heath]

I created a new style and modified a numbered list style while replacing
numbers with bullets with a lesser point size for each level. I can't figure
out why, but the tab and indent stayed the same at each level; I saved that
one to the template.

The problem I found is that the 'tab after' and 'indent' values can get out
of synch after level 1, with no way I could find to directly edit them.
That's no problem if the sub-point text is only a few words, but if it
wraps, the mismatch is obvious.

Shauna's tutorial recommends a different style for each indent level, but I
used the level selector box to format different levels. I'm not sure why the
list style template sometimes puts the tab stop in the wrong place. I still
haven't figured out how to modify this misplaced tab behavior, but I can
move it manually after the style is applied.

'Modify to match selection' only matches the first level, so it's useless
here. If the code is the same on Windows platforms, I'm surprised that
nobody has brought this issue up before (maybe someone has and I just
haven't seen it).

Anyway, one of my attempts produced a style that I like. For future
reference, though, I'd like to know how to control the values for 'tab' and
'indent' on each level.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Scott:

You MUST use a different style for each level. If you don't, anything else
you do is meaningless.

You must follow Shauna's instructions exactly, word-for-word, or no matter
what else you do, it won't work. Stop trying to cut corners: this is a very
twisty racetrack

Cheers

I created a new style and modified a numbered list style while replacing
numbers with bullets with a lesser point size for each level. I can't figure
out why, but the tab and indent stayed the same at each level; I saved that
one to the template.

The problem I found is that the 'tab after' and 'indent' values can get out
of synch after level 1, with no way I could find to directly edit them.
That's no problem if the sub-point text is only a few words, but if it
wraps, the mismatch is obvious.

Shauna's tutorial recommends a different style for each indent level, but I
used the level selector box to format different levels. I'm not sure why the
list style template sometimes puts the tab stop in the wrong place. I still
haven't figured out how to modify this misplaced tab behavior, but I can
move it manually after the style is applied.

'Modify to match selection' only matches the first level, so it's useless
here. If the code is the same on Windows platforms, I'm surprised that
nobody has brought this issue up before (maybe someone has and I just
haven't seen it).

Anyway, one of my attempts produced a style that I like. For future
reference, though, I'd like to know how to control the values for 'tab' and
'indent' on each level.

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Scott Heath]

Huh? Are you saying that the "Apply formatting to: [### level]" option
button on the "Modify style" palette is one of those unreliable buttons that
Shauna says "Don't use"? Has a bug report been filed, or does MS largely
ignore those? I got it to work right once, but I don't know what I did that
worked. I thought someone here might know, but are you saying that whatever
I did was "meaningless" because that button is so unpredictable? Did I just
hit the jackpot?

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Scott:

No, I am not saying that either

Shauna's instructions assume that you are using nine different styles. She
builds her instructions around the built-in Heading series of styles,
Headings 1 through 9, because she knows they are guaranteed to be present
and already have the correct Outline Level set

But if you don't want to use those styles, then you need to make nine of
your own before you start, and then associate each Style with a level in the
List Template as you walk down the Level setting dialog.

Cheers

Huh? Are you saying that the "Apply formatting to: [### level]" option
button on the "Modify style" palette is one of those unreliable buttons that
Shauna says "Don't use"? Has a bug report been filed, or does MS largely
ignore those? I got it to work right once, but I don't know what I did that
worked. I thought someone here might know, but are you saying that whatever
I did was "meaningless" because that button is so unpredictable? Did I just
hit the jackpot?

Hi Scott:

You MUST use a different style for each level. If you don't, anything else
you do is meaningless.

You must follow Shauna's instructions exactly, word-for-word, or no matter
what else you do, it won't work. Stop trying to cut corners: this is a very
twisty racetrack

Cheers


On 3/10/07 2:11 AM, in article C327D0EC.D920%[email protected], "Scott

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/
Nhulunbuy, Northern Territory, Australia
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]