Back up with Time Machine

E

Ellebell

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: Intel
Email Client: imap

I'm backing up to a western digital hard drive using Time Machine. Does anyone know if this backs up entourage emails & folders as well? Thanks
 
K

Kerry

Adam said:
Inside your home folder is Documents > Microsoft User Data > Office 2008
Identities.
Click to expand...

If you decide not to use Time Machine you really should have a daily
incremental backup using software that supports that. There are a lot
of issues with Entourage 2008 (if you scan this forum say on Database
you'll be surprised just how many and they're nasty). I'd use either
Data Backup or Retrospect for daily incremental backups. Possibly have
them run at 3 in the morning so that they don't interfere with your
work. There is a debate about having apps open while backing up so you
could have an automator action to close all windows say at 2:58. Set
your computer to wake at 2:55am and have either program run its backup
at say 3am. I would set say Data Backup to backup at least 14 days
(this is rotating). If you use Retrospect set the groom option at
least at 14 days. In both cases, you would then be able to go back 14
days. The reason you might need to go back is Entourage can develop a
corruption that doesn't become immediately apparent. You might go to
your most recent backup and it may seem to run fine but then all of a
sudden it fails. Its because it really was corrupt. Go back to the
next previous backup. You'll need these backups as if Entourage fully
fails and won't open you cannot recover your data manually. You have
to get back to a database that will open and it is best at this point
to start a new identity.

Like I said, the problems in Entourage's database are not good in
2008. I've had more than my fair share of problems and you'll find a
scan of the forum will reveal some pretty nasty stuff.
 
K

Kerry

Diane said:
We have a series on the Entourage Help Blog about different backup options.
Currently, I'm working on an article using SuperDuper to backup Entourage.

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/articles/backup_articles.html>
Click to expand...

SuperDuper is excellent and I use that for cloning. However, it
doesn't do incremental backups and if your database becomes corrupted
at say 2 am and I've had that happen after I sync my handheld's for
the day, the corrupted database will backup to SuperDuper. When you go
to use Entourage the next day and find it is damaged or worse and I've
had this happen a pile of data has disappeared the cloned Superduper
backup will have the same corrupted database. That's why its essential
to use a backup system that supports incremental backups - Time
Machine, Retrospect, Data Backup, Crashplan and I'm sure there are
others. The ones I've mentioned though are the best - top notch and
you can't go wrong with any of them. And since I'm such a backup nut
and happy for that I use them all.
 
E

Ed Kimball

SuperDuper is excellent and I use that for cloning. However, it
doesn't do incremental backups and if your database becomes corrupted
at say 2 am and I've had that happen after I sync my handheld's for
the day, the corrupted database will backup to SuperDuper. When you go
to use Entourage the next day and find it is damaged or worse and I've
had this happen a pile of data has disappeared the cloned Superduper
backup will have the same corrupted database. That's why its essential
to use a backup system that supports incremental backups - Time
Machine, Retrospect, Data Backup, Crashplan and I'm sure there are
others. The ones I've mentioned though are the best - top notch and
you can't go wrong with any of them. And since I'm such a backup nut
and happy for that I use them all.
Click to expand...

Incremental backups are irrelevant to Entourage. Incremental backup means
that only changed files are backed up. It doesn't back up parts of files.

Since the Entourage database is one big file, and Entourage updates it every
time you send or receive mail, update your calendar, etc., your backup
software must backup the entire database if there has been even the smallest
change. There is no "increment" to backup. (Apple Mail on the other hand,
stores messages in individual files, so incremental backup works fine.)

I believe this is one of the main reasons that Diane recommends not using
Time Machine on the Entourage database. It can result in a lot of storage on
your backup drive, and if Entourage has not flushed the entire DB to disk
before you backup, then the saved DB may not be usable. That's why it is
smarter to quit Entourage before backing up.
 
E

Ellebell

Thanks for all your help. It seems pretty complicated for an untechy person.

I've removed the main identity folder and am going to add it once a week to back up with Time Machine. Hopefully this will be ok. All I want is an easy way to back up Entourage, I didn't realise it'd be so difficult. All your messages have put me off even using Entourage as an email client!
 
D

Diane Ross

I've removed the main identity folder and am going to add it once a week to
back up with Time Machine. Hopefully this will be ok. All I want is an easy
way to back up Entourage, I didn't realise it'd be so difficult. All your
messages have put me off even using Entourage as an email client!
Click to expand...

Any application that uses a database is a bit more troublesome to backup,
but Entourage is a great email client and is worth learning. YMMV
 
K

Kerry

Incremental backups are irrelevant to Entourage. Incremental backup means
that only changed files are backed up. It doesn't back up parts of files.

Since the Entourage database is one big file, and Entourage updates it every
time you send or receive mail, update your calendar, etc., your backup
software must backup the entire database if there has been even the smallest
change. There is no "increment" to backup. (Apple Mail on the other hand,
stores messages in individual files, so incremental backup works fine.)

I believe this is one of the main reasons that Diane recommends not using
Time Machine on the Entourage database. It can result in a lot of storageon
your backup drive, and if Entourage has not flushed the entire DB to disk
before you backup, then the saved DB may not be usable. That's why it is
smarter to quit Entourage before backing up.
Click to expand...

Incremental backups are far from irrelevant to Entourage and are very
important but not just to Entourage. If it is a daily backup, the
identity is backed up that day in time till the point that you rotate
the backup. So say last nights backup is bad, just go back to the
backup from the day before and restore, in the case of Entourage, that
day's identity. Data Backup and Retrospect provide this capability. I
have these set to store my backups 14 days back. So I can go back 14
days and restore a database that was created that far back. What's
missing of course is the information created from that point forward.

I know there is this debate about not using Time Machine but I use it
all the time and have never had a problem with a restore. So, if an
Entourage DB corrupts at say 10 pm I'll just restore the most recent
DB so as not to loose too much data.

I never found this to be much of an issue with 2004 and rarely ever
had the DB corrupt and in fact I don't recall in 5 years of use this
happening. In fact, I don't recall ever looking for tech support with
it. I sure never read this forum or any other forum with respect to
Entourage 2004. That changed with 2008.

I have zero problems with Outlook and never have technical questions
anywhere with this. Everything in my Windows environment is also
extensively backed up but the only time I ever need to rely on a
backup is if I accidentally delete something. Maybe I'm just lucky. I
just wish Microsoft could get Entourage solid. I think we've got quite
a wait for that.
 
K

Kerry

[email protected] said:
Thanks for all your help. It seems pretty complicated for an untechy person.

I've removed the main identity folder and am going to add it once a week to back up with Time Machine. Hopefully this will be ok. All I want is an easy way to back up Entourage, I didn't realise it'd be so difficult. All your messages have put me off even using Entourage as an email client!
Click to expand...

Yes, what you are planning on doing is perfectly fine.
 
E

Ed Kimball

Incremental backups are far from irrelevant to Entourage and are very
important but not just to Entourage. If it is a daily backup, the
identity is backed up that day in time till the point that you rotate
the backup. So say last nights backup is bad, just go back to the
backup from the day before and restore, in the case of Entourage, that
day's identity. Data Backup and Retrospect provide this capability. I
have these set to store my backups 14 days back. So I can go back 14
days and restore a database that was created that far back. What's
missing of course is the information created from that point forward.
Click to expand...

Yes, but that's not an "incremental" backup as far as Entourage is
concerned. It's a complete snapshot.
I know there is this debate about not using Time Machine but I use it
all the time and have never had a problem with a restore. So, if an
Entourage DB corrupts at say 10 pm I'll just restore the most recent
DB so as not to loose too much data.
Click to expand...
FWIW, I use Time Machine too on Entourage 2004 (despite Diane's warnings).
Fortunately, I have not had to restore my MS database (or much of anything
else), so I have no idea if any of those backups is corrupted. :-O
I never found this to be much of an issue with 2004 and rarely ever
had the DB corrupt and in fact I don't recall in 5 years of use this
happening. In fact, I don't recall ever looking for tech support with
it. I sure never read this forum or any other forum with respect to
Entourage 2004. That changed with 2008.

I have zero problems with Outlook and never have technical questions
anywhere with this. Everything in my Windows environment is also
extensively backed up but the only time I ever need to rely on a
backup is if I accidentally delete something. Maybe I'm just lucky. I
just wish Microsoft could get Entourage solid. I think we've got quite
a wait for that.
Click to expand...
My experience on backing up my Mac is identical to yours with Windows. The
only things I've had to restore are those I accidentally deleted myself.
 
E

Ellebell

I'm thinking to change to Mail as there seems to be problems with Entourage. Would that be better for back ups? Is Mail a good email client to use? Thanks
 
E

Ed Kimball

I'm thinking to change to Mail as there seems to be problems with Entourage.
Would that be better for back ups? Is Mail a good email client to use? Thanks
Click to expand...

I think Mail is a good mail program if your mail account is set up for POP
or IMAP. It does back up with Time Machine more reliably than Entourage
does.

Entourage's main advantages, from my viewpoint, is that it integrates access
to newsgroups (like this one) and it works with MS Exchange mail servers. It
also has an integrated Address Book, Calendar, and To Do list, but Mail is
sufficiently well integrated with Apple's Address Book and iCal that I don't
see this integration as a major advantage for Entourage.

Remember, however, that this is just one person's opinion.
 
K

Kenneth B Winiecki

The procedure for backing up Entourage entourage_and_time_machine.html is
discouragingly complicated. Does Microsoft have any plans to make Entourage
backup cooperate invisibly with Time Machine? I assume Mac Mail has no
issues with Time Machine; so Entourage should be at least as friendly.

Ken
<-- Replace fake with .mv; remove .invalid
 
D

Diane Ross

The procedure for backing up Entourage entourage_and_time_machine.html is
discouragingly complicated.
Click to expand...

Did you try the workflow that quits all Microsoft applications and makes a
backup once a day for Time Machine?

Alternative method to use Entourage and Time Machine (does a once a day or
whatever time period you select) This quits Entourage and the Microsoft
Database daemon allowing for once a day backup into Time Machine.

<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/01/alternative_method_to_use_entourage_
and_time_machine.html>
Does Microsoft have any plans to make Entourage
backup cooperate invisibly with Time Machine? I assume Mac Mail has no
issues with Time Machine; so Entourage should be at least as friendly.
Click to expand...

You won't see any major changes to Entourage 2008 like this. Maybe the next
version.
 

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