Beginner questions

[BruceM]

I am using PowerPoint 2000. I have put off learning it for as long as I
can, but the time has come when I must. I had thought it would be easier
because of my knowledge of Word, but it is not. Formatting and arranging
text in the two programs is as different as different can be.

First, I have no interest in pictures, flying words, lights, sounds,
animation, or any of that. I need to manage stationary text.
What are the limitations of the format painter? I would like to set up a
text box (or placeholder or whatever it is) with an outline format, then
apply that format to other text boxes. However, bullet formats, line
spacing, and other features are not necessarily copied from one text box (or
placeholder or whatever they are) to another with the format painter. Can I
automate the process of applying a consistent format, or do I need to start
over with each slide?
I have noticed that when text is in a placeholder (whatever that is - Help
has nothing to say on the subject) I can see it in the left-hand pane, but
when I place it in a text box it is not visible in the left hand pane. I
assume this is because the left-hand pane does not show objects in the
graphics layer or some such, and that a text box is a graphic, and therefore
does not appear. However, it seems that a placeholder can only be created
when a new slide is created, or an existing one is copied. So is there any
way (or any reason, for that matter) to view text box contents in the
left-hand pane?
Is grouping possible with placeholders, or do I need to decide between
viewing the text in the left-hand pane (which is easier than flipping
through slides) and grouping?

 

[BruceM]

Thanks for the reply. One of the frustrations for me is that I am very
proficient at Word, but little of what I learned applies to PowerPoint. I
think I see how Slide Master works for new slides, but I am still quite
puzzled about what happens to existing slides when I change the Master.
Part of the problem is that I don't know on which master a particular slide
was based. Is it possible to discover that information about an existing
slide? Another part of the problem is that whoever did the presentation in
the first place just sort of clicked and dragged things around until it was
sort of OK, but the whole thing sort of explodes sometimes when I try to
edit it.

If I understand correctly, if I change the Master for Title with Bulleted
List, all new slides based on that Master will contain the new formatting.

The grouping thing is for convenience. I can just select a group of objects
and move them all at once.

A curiosity: I attempted to use 26 point text in one Master, although it
was not one of the options (24 and 28 were the choices). It would not
accept 26 point, and decided on its own to make it 9 point. However, when I
format directly I can choose any size font I want.

What effect does changing a Master have on text that is in text boxes or
drawing objects. I think I have discovered that copying a placeholder and
pasting it on another slide results in its being pasted as a drawing object.

I really appreciate the insight about editing the masters. I could
customize the Masters to my own needs, thus eliminating a lot of direct
formatting. I assume that I could create a template with a particular set
of Masters, and that by so doing I would not affect the main template or any
other template.

 

[Echo S]

Thanks for the reply. One of the frustrations for me is that I am very
proficient at Word, but little of what I learned applies to PowerPoint. I
think I see how Slide Master works for new slides, but I am still quite
puzzled about what happens to existing slides when I change the Master.

Sometimes nothing happens to existing slides when you change the master the
slides are based on. This depends on how much manual formatting has been
applied to the slide; PPT usually tries to respect that. To get the master
changes to "take" on a slide, choose Format|Slide Layout and reapply the
slide layout to the slide.

Part of the problem is that I don't know on which master a particular slide
was based. Is it possible to discover that information about an existing
slide?

Since you're using PPT 2000, there's only one set of slide masters -- a
slide master and a title slide master (the title slide master is optional).
So if your slide uses a title layout, it will be based on the title slide
master. If it uses any other layout, it will be based on the slide master.

Multiple masters weren't introduced until PPT 2002 (aka PPT XP).

Another part of the problem is that whoever did the presentation in
the first place just sort of clicked and dragged things around until it was
sort of OK, but the whole thing sort of explodes sometimes when I try to
edit it.

I hate that. It's tedious to clean up.

Try reapplying the slide layout as described above and see if that helps.
Sometimes you have to reapply it twice. It really depends on if the creator
used placeholders or regular textboxes, though.

If I understand correctly, if I change the Master for Title with Bulleted
List, all new slides based on that Master will contain the new formatting.

Yes, this is correct.

The grouping thing is for convenience. I can just select a group of objects
and move them all at once.

A curiosity: I attempted to use 26 point text in one Master, although it
was not one of the options (24 and 28 were the choices). It would not
accept 26 point, and decided on its own to make it 9 point. However, when I
format directly I can choose any size font I want.

You should be able to click on the placeholder (not selecting the text
directly), type 26 into the font box on the toolbar, and hit Enter or Tab to
have the font size apply. If you just click away from the font box after
typing in the size, it reverts to whatever was previously in the box. Or,
select the placeholder and choose Format|Font. Both should accept 26 with no
problem.

What effect does changing a Master have on text that is in text boxes or
drawing objects. I think I have discovered that copying a placeholder and
pasting it on another slide results in its being pasted as a drawing

object.

No effect. Placeholders are governed by the master slides, manual textboxes
(drawing objects) are not.

I really appreciate the insight about editing the masters. I could
customize the Masters to my own needs, thus eliminating a lot of direct
formatting. I assume that I could create a template with a particular set
of Masters, and that by so doing I would not affect the main template or any
other template.

Not sure what you mean here. You can create your own master slides and save
them as your own template. But you can't apply multiple templates (multiple
masters, as mentioned above) to a PPT 2000 file at the same time. You could
apply your own template (with its customized masters) to the file and do a
File|Save As, though.

 

[BruceM]

Thanks very much for the reply. Additional comments and responses inline.

Sometimes nothing happens to existing slides when you change the master
the
slides are based on. This depends on how much manual formatting has been
applied to the slide; PPT usually tries to respect that. To get the master
changes to "take" on a slide, choose Format|Slide Layout and reapply the
slide layout to the slide.

Thanks for the tip. This also answers my question, which may have been
worded confusingly, about discovering which master was used for a particular
slide. What I meant was that when I add a new slide I can choose title, two
object, bulleted list, blank, etc. If a slide was based on bulleted list,
that is the slide I need to change to affect other slides based on that one.
I had thought it was a master, but I guess the master is the whole
collection of slides you choose from when you add a new slide. In that case
I am looking for the name used for the individual slide (bulleted list) from
the collection.

By the way, I discovered that Ctrl + Spacebar works as it does in Word: it
removes character formatting from selected text.

Since you're using PPT 2000, there's only one set of slide masters -- a
slide master and a title slide master (the title slide master is
optional).
So if your slide uses a title layout, it will be based on the title slide
master. If it uses any other layout, it will be based on the slide master.

Multiple masters weren't introduced until PPT 2002 (aka PPT XP).


I hate that. It's tedious to clean up.

I would have been hard-pressed to learn about slide masters on my own. I
cannot really blame the person who needed to get something done quickly and
didn't have time to wase through the Help menu. A longstanding problem with
Microsoft products is that many of the most useful features are buried under
layers of gratuitous automation. Working with Slides, for instance, should
contain something about the left hand pane and the use of placeholders.
Placeholders, important though they are, do not even get their own mention
in Help. Copying and pasting a placeholder does not seem to result in a
placeholder, but rather a drawing object that is somehow not quite a text
box. Or something.

Try reapplying the slide layout as described above and see if that helps.
Sometimes you have to reapply it twice. It really depends on if the
creator
used placeholders or regular textboxes, though.


Yes, this is correct.


You should be able to click on the placeholder (not selecting the text
directly), type 26 into the font box on the toolbar, and hit Enter or Tab
to
have the font size apply. If you just click away from the font box after
typing in the size, it reverts to whatever was previously in the box. Or,
select the placeholder and choose Format|Font. Both should accept 26 with
no
problem.

Today it worked smoothly. I expect manual formatting entered into the
problem at some point.

object.

No effect. Placeholders are governed by the master slides, manual
textboxes
(drawing objects) are not.


Not sure what you mean here. You can create your own master slides and
save
them as your own template. But you can't apply multiple templates
(multiple
masters, as mentioned above) to a PPT 2000 file at the same time. You
could
apply your own template (with its customized masters) to the file and do a
File|Save As, though.

The File > Save As thing is what I meant.

Thanks again for all of your help. This has become a lot easier since I
started asking questions. Apparently random occurences can be explained
after all. Once understood, they can be tamed.

 

[Echo S]

Thanks very much for the reply. Additional comments and responses inline.



Thanks for the tip. This also answers my question, which may have been
worded confusingly, about discovering which master was used for a particular
slide. What I meant was that when I add a new slide I can choose title, two
object, bulleted list, blank, etc. If a slide was based on bulleted list,
that is the slide I need to change to affect other slides based on that one.
I had thought it was a master, but I guess the master is the whole
collection of slides you choose from when you add a new slide. In that case
I am looking for the name used for the individual slide (bulleted list) from
the collection.

Well, let's see.

In PPT 2000, you can have two master slides. One is the "slide master," the
other is the "title slide master."

The "title slide master" is the basis for all slides that have had the Title
Slide Layout applied to them. That is, if you go to Format|Slide Layout and
apply the title slide layout, your slide should pick up its attributes from
the "title slide master." So whatever font size, color, shadowing, etc., you
set in the two placeholders on the title slide master where it says "click to
edit master title style" and "click to edit master subtitle style" -- that's
what the text on any slides using the Title Slide Layout will have. Any logos
or pictures or whatever background color your Title Slide Master has will
also be reflected on any slides that use the Title Slide Layout.

The "slide master" governs all the rest of the slides. The size of your main
bulleted text placeholder determines the size of the bulleted text
placeholder on a slide that uses "title and text" layout. It also determines
the size of the two bulleted text placeholders on a "title and 2-column text"
layout -- the two placeholders fit inside the space designated by the 1
placeholder on the slide master. Likewise, the content area in a "title and
content" slide layout is the same size as the placeholder on the slide master.

So, basically, the slide masters establish the initial look and feel of your
presentation -- the colors, the background color and pattern or image, the
text colors and size, what font is used in the placeholders, etc., and if you
type in the text placeholders, you won't have to do much formatting. You
don't get a whole lot of variation -- you can't create a whole bunch of
different slide masters in PPT 2000, but you do get a bunch of built in slide
layouts. Those attempt to make it easy for you to add additional content to
your slides -- not just text -- and have it show up in the right place.
That's what the slide layouts are for.

Personally, I rarely use the content slide layouts. I do use the bulleted
text slide layouts, but I tend to use the "title only" slide layout -- the
one with a title at the top and blank space underneath -- when I need to add
additional content to my slide. Well, I lied a little. I do use the chart
slide layout a lot. That way I can start out with appropriately-sized charts,
which usually makes my life easier.

Now, don't get the 'title only" layout mixed up with the "title slide"
layout. Title Only has a title area in the same place as the regular bulleted
slides do, it just doesn't have the bulleted text placeholder in the lower
part of the slide. Title Slide layout is actually for a title slide for your
presentation. It's usually the first slide. People often use the title slide
layout for things like section breaks and "chapter headings" in
presentations. For example, you might put your company logo on the title
slide master so it shows up on all slides using the Title Slide Layout, but
you don't put it on the "regular" slide master so it doesn't show up on all
the other slides that use all the other slide layouts.

Now, in PPT 2002 and 2003, you can create more than one set of masters, so
you have a bit more control. But in PPT 2000, you just have the one set --
the title slide master and the slide master.

Does that help make sense of it a bit?

 

[BruceM]

Thanks again. I haven't had a chance to look at your posting all that
carefully due to its being a busy day, and now the end of Friday is upon me
and I'm out of here. There seems to be a lot of information in there, so I
will take a closer look on Monday.

 

[BruceM]

My frustration with different interfaces for different Office programs comes
especially when I am attempting to use something that appears to be the same
in two separate programs, but which works differently in each. For
instance, to align a series of text boxes that are arranged vertically in
PowerPoint I select them, then on the Drawing toolbar select Draw > Align or
Distribute, and click Distribute Vertically, they all move. Apparently it
considers the whole slide as the area in which they are to be distributed.
In Word that same command leaves the top and bottom text boxes in place, and
distributes the others between them. Similarly, if I click Align >
Distribute > Align Left, in PowerPoint the text boxes all move to the left
edge of the slide; in Word they align with the leftmost tex box. I find
stuff like that a bit frustrating, because it makes no sense to me that the
same command, same toolbar, same icon, etc. would produce such different
results in the two programs.

It seems that manual formatting takes precedence over defined layouts, which
is similar to Word, although it gets there be a different route. In
PowerPoint it seems that Line Spacing can only be applied case by case. I
have not found a way of copying it from one slide to another except by
changing the master. In Word, Line Spacing is the same as paragraph
formatting, except in Word it can be copied from one paragraph to another.

In any case I do what I can to avoid manual formatting. In Word I use
styles; in PowerPoint I will try to use predefined layouts or masters or
whatever they are called. I was working with an existing presentation to
which endless manual formatting had been applied. In most cases I created
new slides based on new masters or layouts or whatever they are called,
copied the text, and removed manual formatting, reapplying it only as needed
to do such things as squeeze an extra line onto a slide.

Thanks for your comments. The difficult thing so often is to understand why
something is happening the way it is. Once I understand the underlying
rationale I can begin to tame it.

 

[BruceM]

Thanks for the explanation about the Title Slide Master and the Slide
Master. From what I can tell, changes to the Title Slide Master are
reflected in the Title area of all the slides. In other words, that
placeholder at the top is the same for each new slide (unless I choose
Blank, of course). To me it's puzzling to have Slide Master refer to a
whole group of possible layouts (Title alone, Title with bullets, Title with
two columns, Title with graph, etc.). I would have thought each of those
was a master. I will think of them as layouts, then, unless there is
another term for them.

I think I agree that the individual layouts are of limited usefulness. I
have decide that being able to see the text on the left is not really all
that useful. Scrolling through the slides is just as quick, and is much
easier to read in many cases. Also, I can choose a style for the Title
placeholder on all pages, but will have to manually format it if I need to
change it on a particular slide, or partway through, or if I want it to be
different after the first slide. Similarly, there is one format for other
placeholders on the slide. If I choose a subtitle layout it is applied to
every placeholder (except for the Title placeholder) on every slide.

In general it seems that PowerPoint needs more manual formatting for than do
other office programs. The format painter is very limited in the formatting
that it copies (it does not copy line spacing formats, for instance), and
the use of predefined styles or formats is also limited. Not a big deal, as
long as I am not looking for a way to get formatting to behave as it does in
Word (which uses Styles, and in which the Format Painter applies to
paragraphs, but not to table cell formatting) or Excel (in which cell
formatting can be copied, but the equivalent of paragraph formatting is very
limited). Access is in many ways a breed apart from the others. The
programs are far more dissimilar than they are alike, so I just need to
remember where I am when I click a particular button or menu command.

I appreciate your help and your comments. Thanks again.

 

[Kathy Jacobs]

You are right that what you were calling masters are generally called
layouts. This is because a slide layout is just that - a definition of which
slide placeholders appear on a slide and where their default locations are.

A slide master defines the initial look and feel for the slide. There are
two types of slide masters - the title master and the content master. The
title master defines the look and feel only for those slides that use the
title slide layout. (This is the layout with the title and sub-title
placeholders.) The content master defines the look and feel for slides of
any other layout.

I am wondering, if you do View--> Master--> Slide Master, do you see one
master or two? If you are only seeing one, that might be part of the
confusion. If there is only one master defined, it is a content master, but
applies to the title master too. If you want to see a title master in these
cases, you can do Insert--> Title Master while viewing the master slide.
This will add a master that you can define as you wish for your
title/sub-title slides.

The individual content layouts are useful. Any text you place in the
placeholders created by those layouts comes pre-formatted as defined in the
master. In addition, any text in those placeholders has a "head start" on
formatting because it inherits its formatting from the appropriate master.
That text also shows up in the outline, which is what you see when you
scroll through the text in the far left pane. Unless I am either working on
a very text heavy presentation or doing things to specific parts of each
slide, I don't use the outlines for general navigation either.

--
Kathryn Jacobs, Microsoft MVP PowerPoint and OneNote
Author of Kathy Jacobs on PowerPoint - Available now from Holy Macro! Books
Get PowerPoint answers at http://www.powerpointanswers.com

I believe life is meant to be lived. But:
if we live without making a difference, it makes no difference that we lived

Thanks for the explanation about the Title Slide Master and the Slide
Master. From what I can tell, changes to the Title Slide Master are
reflected in the Title area of all the slides. In other words, that
placeholder at the top is the same for each new slide (unless I choose
Blank, of course). To me it's puzzling to have Slide Master refer to a
whole group of possible layouts (Title alone, Title with bullets, Title
with two columns, Title with graph, etc.). I would have thought each of
those was a master. I will think of them as layouts, then, unless there
is another term for them.

I think I agree that the individual layouts are of limited usefulness. I
have decide that being able to see the text on the left is not really all
that useful. Scrolling through the slides is just as quick, and is much
easier to read in many cases. Also, I can choose a style for the Title
placeholder on all pages, but will have to manually format it if I need to
change it on a particular slide, or partway through, or if I want it to be
different after the first slide. Similarly, there is one format for other
placeholders on the slide. If I choose a subtitle layout it is applied to
every placeholder (except for the Title placeholder) on every slide.

In general it seems that PowerPoint needs more manual formatting for than
do other office programs. The format painter is very limited in the
formatting that it copies (it does not copy line spacing formats, for
instance), and the use of predefined styles or formats is also limited.
Not a big deal, as long as I am not looking for a way to get formatting to
behave as it does in Word (which uses Styles, and in which the Format
Painter applies to paragraphs, but not to table cell formatting) or Excel
(in which cell formatting can be copied, but the equivalent of paragraph
formatting is very limited). Access is in many ways a breed apart from
the others. The programs are far more dissimilar than they are alike, so
I just need to remember where I am when I click a particular button or
menu command.

I appreciate your help and your comments. Thanks again.

 

[BruceM]

I only see one master. I see what you're saying about different
preformatted slides having a head start because the text areas have
predefined formatting. As I said in one of my postings, it seems that there
is quite a bit more manual formatting needed in PowerPoint than in Word.
That's OK, as long as I understand that. Thanks for your input. Just this
one question has done quite a bit to advance my understanding.

You are right that what you were calling masters are generally called
layouts. This is because a slide layout is just that - a definition of
which slide placeholders appear on a slide and where their default
locations are.

A slide master defines the initial look and feel for the slide. There are
two types of slide masters - the title master and the content master. The
title master defines the look and feel only for those slides that use the
title slide layout. (This is the layout with the title and sub-title
placeholders.) The content master defines the look and feel for slides of
any other layout.

I am wondering, if you do View--> Master--> Slide Master, do you see one
master or two? If you are only seeing one, that might be part of the
confusion. If there is only one master defined, it is a content master,
but applies to the title master too. If you want to see a title master in
these cases, you can do Insert--> Title Master while viewing the master
slide. This will add a master that you can define as you wish for your
title/sub-title slides.

The individual content layouts are useful. Any text you place in the
placeholders created by those layouts comes pre-formatted as defined in
the master. In addition, any text in those placeholders has a "head start"
on formatting because it inherits its formatting from the appropriate
master. That text also shows up in the outline, which is what you see when
you scroll through the text in the far left pane. Unless I am either
working on a very text heavy presentation or doing things to specific
parts of each slide, I don't use the outlines for general navigation
either.

--
Kathryn Jacobs, Microsoft MVP PowerPoint and OneNote
Author of Kathy Jacobs on PowerPoint - Available now from Holy Macro!
Books
Get PowerPoint answers at http://www.powerpointanswers.com

I believe life is meant to be lived. But:
if we live without making a difference, it makes no difference that we
lived

 

[BruceM]

It seems I have just the one, which I suppose means that it is the Slide
Master. Somehow this all reminds me of extended memory and expanded memory,
which were quite different but had names similar enough that it caused
endless confusion. Thank you for following up on my misunderstanding. One
of these days I may experience an epiphany on all this, but in the meantime
I think I can at least understand it enough to keep in under control.

Thanks for the explanation about the Title Slide Master and the Slide
Master. From what I can tell, changes to the Title Slide Master are
reflected in the Title area of all the slides.

Not exactly.

There can be two types of masters, Slide Masters and Title Masters.

Each can have a slide title placeholder.

There's always a Slide master; the title master is optional.

So:

IF there's a Title Master, its title text placeholder controls formatting
for
title text on Title layout slides in your presentation.

The Slide master's title text placeholder controls title text formatting
for
other layouts.

If there's no Title master, then PPT uses the Slide Master's title
placeholder
formatting but applies its own default positioning to the title text.

 

[Echo S]

another.

I see what you mean. The formatting paintbrush ... um ... doesn't paint this
attribute.

Yes it does.

 

[BruceM]

Upon closer examination I see that it does indeed copy the line formatting
if I select text containing the formatting I need, click the format painter,
and drag the cursor over all of the text I want changed. It does not work
by just clicking, as it does in Word. In Word you need to copy text to copy
its formatting, but you only need to click into a paragraph to copy Style or
paragraph formatting. I tried to treat Powerpoint the same. Just another
example of what I mentioned earlier about the interface being
sort-of-but-not-quite the same from one program to another. Thanks for
pointing it out.

 

[BruceM]

Say ... are you as old as I look?

(lol) I'll have to remember that one

 

[Echo S]

Does not. ;-)

OK. Skip that. How do you make it do that? Pick up and apply the line
spacing from/to a whole text box, yes, but I can't pick up the line spacing
from the third line and apply it to the sixth line, for example (assumed that
each line = a paragraph, of course)

LOL!

You're right -- I'm talking whole text box. Where it gets weird is if there
are various linespace settings in the same textbox. In those cases, I
*think* Format Painter picks up the linespace setting on the first bullet,
but I haven't tested, so I'm not positive.

I like these where we're all right!