If I create a drawing using microsoft power point and save it as a pdf, will
it be vectorized or saved as a bit map?
Jethr wrote:
Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
12-May-09
Hi, we are having a tough time finding a 'definitive' answer to how exactly
Word deals with imported images, and what methods would be best for keeping
quality high.
We are creating some Word templates for a client (letterhead, fax form,
etc.) that uses their logo and footer information from their stationery
design. These elements are vector (created in Illustrator) and we'd prefer
for them to stay that way if possible.
- What vector formats does Word on a PC support?
- What method is best to import a graphic and retain it's vector data (ie -
link, embed, etc.)?
We had tried placing EPS files, and while it prints OK on postscript
printers, it doesn't do well on their B&W Brother & HP printers. And the
screen preview is VERY fuzzy.
They also will need to create PDFs of these files at times, so having the
graphics export properly is really important as well.
Thanks a lot. If there's a decent document somewhere that spells out the
details in more definitive technical terms, I'd love to know about it!
Previous Posts In This Thread:
Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
Hi, we are having a tough time finding a 'definitive' answer to how exactly
Word deals with imported images, and what methods would be best for keeping
quality high.
We are creating some Word templates for a client (letterhead, fax form,
etc.) that uses their logo and footer information from their stationery
design. These elements are vector (created in Illustrator) and we'd prefer
for them to stay that way if possible.
- What vector formats does Word on a PC support?
- What method is best to import a graphic and retain it's vector data (ie -
link, embed, etc.)?
We had tried placing EPS files, and while it prints OK on postscript
printers, it doesn't do well on their B&W Brother & HP printers. And the
screen preview is VERY fuzzy.
They also will need to create PDFs of these files at times, so having the
graphics export properly is really important as well.
Thanks a lot. If there's a decent document somewhere that spells out the
details in more definitive technical terms, I'd love to know about it!
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
Hi Jethro,
Probably the simplest for you to use will be an EPS-format file exported from
Illustrator. Just make sure it generates a preview
image; even though the preview image isn't particularly good - you won't see
the logo otherwise.
--
Cheers
macropod
[Microsoft MVP - Word]
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
Just another opinion, but for a logo I'd use Illy's Export as PDF - In fact,
depending on the logo I'd more likely go with PNG [even though it's not
Vector] before EPS. The EPS isn't going to print well unless you're printing
to a postscript-compatible device. That's probably why the results you
mentioned were less than desireable - as well as the likelihood that the EPS
was created using CMYK which was being converted by RGB printers. It was the
preview image that was being printed, not the EPS data itself. To get higher
quality output on a non-postscript device you'd need to recreate the EPS
with an 8-bit TIFF preview which will increment the image file size
substantially - as well the size of the documents containing it.
BTW: As far as a "decent document", the first problem is that there are
thousand's of them. The second problem is that they don't all state the same
thing & the third problem is that most all are from reputable sources
--
HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
Office:Mac MVP
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
Thanks for the replies! A lot of that makes sense. We heard from the client
that the files were printing good on their color laser (which is a postscript
printer), but not their B&Ws (an HP & Brother that use postscript
'emulation'). And that the logos looked really fuzzy on screen.
- So if we do stick with EPS, and just recommend that the client use their
high-end printer for printing, is there a difference between 'linking' and
'embedding' a file?
- Is there a non-postscript vector format that is available on Windows that
might be safer (ie - WMF, EMF, SVG, etc.)?
- They also need to create PDFs from these Word files. Would word use the
screen preview or actual file when making the PDF? I believe they may use the
'Print to PDF' method, although some users may opt for the PDFMaker if they
have it in Word.
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
See the in line responses:
On 5/14/09 2:46 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "Jethro"
Yes ? Linking does not store the image in the document, embedding does. If
the image is linked it must be available when the printing occurs. If it
isn't Word can only send the screen image data to the printer because that's
all it has, typically resulting in less than desirable results.
Note: The main advantage of linking is to keep file size smaller which
provides several benefits, especially if hi-res images are required.
PDF - it's as close to EPS as you can get without Postscript.
Creating a PDF is a print operation no matter what method is used, it's just
that the PDF file is printed to disk rather than directly to a printer. All
PDF generators are essentially printer drivers ? it's just a matter of what
options & settings adjustment they offer. PDFMaker is made available as an
add-in if you have Acrobat, other PDF generators don't provide that
convenience but may provide something else.
As above, if the image is embedded or present at printing if linked, that's
what goes into the PDF. If not embedded or not available if linked it can't
be so the display image is used.
HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
Hmmmm, OK. I tired using PDF as the file format, as this was suggested
elsewhere as well. It sounds reasonable to me too.
HOWEVER, the screen preview and the printout look very low-res & fuzzy, even
on our high-end PostScript printer. And, MS Word 2003 on our PC doesn't even
allow PDF as a file format option for inserting a file. So this is confusing.
I saved the PDF from Illustrator on the Mac with no compression or
down-sampling (though it's all vector info). The file is also using all RGB
colors if that makes a difference (since I know Word doesn't support CMYK).
SO, I also tried a test with an EMF files exported from Illustrator, and
that looks HORRIBLE, even from our PC. It looks like a bad ink-stamp or
something. Strange...
With both files I was embedding, not linking, so there's no chance of a
broken link.
Lastly, I tried to see if I could export an EPS from Illustrator with a WMF
preview image (or header). But this as well is not an option, not even on
Illustrator CS2 for PC.
- ANY SUGGESTIONS???
Thanks!
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
What settings are you using in Illy to create the PDF?
Since PDF isn't actually an image format you have to use Insert> Object>
Create From File.
Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
On 5/18/09 11:29 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "Jethro"
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
Hi, from what I recall I used the default 'Save As' function to create the
PDF. Then on the first section of the dialog, everything is unchecked
(Preserve Illustrator Editing, Embed Thumbs, etc.). There is no compression
or downsampling for images, but there are no images so this shouldn't matter.
Subset fonts less than 100%, but there are no fonts (all outlines). No color
conversion (all colors are RGB).
In Acrobat, the files look perfect. When I preflight, there is only RGB
vector information. All pretty straight forward.
But even when I use the Insert/Object/Create from File method to place, the
preview and printed pages are very fuzzy and not high quality. I tried
importing in both Word for Mac v.X, and Word 2003 on PC.
Strange. PDF seemed to be highly recommended. Certainly doesn't work here.
We're now experimenting with creating the graphic files from a demo version
of Corel Draw on a PC. Figure it probably plays nicer with PC file formats,
but so far still issues.
- WHY IS THIS SO DIFFICULT? (oh yeah, it's Microsoft...)
:
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
Well, candidly speaking I don't think you can expect much in the way of PDF
handling by v.X, and 2003's PDF filters aren't much better. Office 2007/2008
do a much better job.
As to the Illy output, what you don't mention is the PDF Preset being used.
For what you want I'd suggest nothing less than "High Quality Print" with
the check for "Optimize for Fast Web View" cleared. BTW: There is a Compress
Text & Line Art checkbox on the Compression page of the PDF output dialog,
although I don't see that being a factor in the piece you describe.
Just out of curiosity ? I know you want to preserve vector format ? have you
tried a 300 ppi (or higher) PNG?
Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
On 5/20/09 8:21 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "Jethro"
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
On Wed, 20 May 2009 20:21:01 -0400, Jethro wrote:
No, that's not it. It's difficult due to (a) the client is too cheap to buy
real letterhead; and (b) lack of understanding of graphic capabilities and
limitations.
When you tell a customer an EPS is the best logo and they complain that it's
fuzzy on the screen ... well, tough noogies. Get over it. That's the way it
is. But then you have issues where someone can't use it at all because EPS is
not, or at least was not for years, supported by default: you had to choose
it specifically during installation. And then you have the issue of
non-PostScript printers, or printers with crappy cheap emulation.
I have a customer of 5000 seats. Over the years they decided that all
networked printers will have Adobe PostScript, period.
By they way, are you getting paid? Over many years of this, I've had maybe
five or six "customers" who wanted me to do this kind of work, where they
didn't want to buy letterhead. In all but one I got shafted.
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
Don't hold back Tim ? let us know how you really feel ;-)
Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
On 5/23/09 8:39 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "Tim Murray"
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
On Sun, 24 May 2009 09:14:26 -0400, CyberTaz wrote:
It's been a rough week.
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
On 5/24/09 12:05 PM, in article
(e-mail address removed), "Tim Murray"
I understand ?X sometimes it just doesn't seem worth the effort needed to
sugar-coat the truth
Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
OK, re-opening this can of worms. For the project that we originally had the
question about, we ended up using an EPS w/ a WMF preview created from a
trial version of Corel Draw. What a workaround!
But we now have another project coming up with similar requirements. Our
trial version of Corel expired, and we don't really want to purchase it JUST
for this. So, need to know other options.
With this new project, we are going to try to use Word 2008 on Mac to
generate the files, and then the client will use Word 2007 to edit and
ultimately make PDFs that will be downloaded & printed by any random users.
- If we're using the new versions of Word, will PDF now be the answer for
this? Was it our using older versions that caused the problems before?
- Any idea if a placed PDF in Word 2008 will translate well to Word 2007 PC?
- Does the placed PDF convert well to an exported PDF? Retain it's vector
info?
THANKS IN ADVANCE!
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 17:18:01 -0400, Jethro wrote:
If the answer is a format for import, no. But even if Word imported PDFs
well, you still have to make the object to import, right? So how do you make
that object? You're going to need a real graphics tool, such as Corel or
Illustrator.
PDF as an importable object just is not yet a good solution for Word.
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
Hmmmm, now I think I'm more confused than ever. I had been told by various
other resources that PDF would be the best format to use for importing. I had
just been puzzled by this as the results I was getting were not good at all.
But I had seen hints that this might have been due to older versions of Word
not supporting PDF very well.
Our graphics would be created and edited in Illustrator CS3 on a Mac. All
fonts converted to outlines. So by default, we only have the exportable
formats that Illustrator supports. And I tried most of the obvious. PDF is
Illustrators' underlying format, so that would be another reason to use it as
opposed to EPS, which is only going to work well with true PostScript
printers. No option to make any kind of EPS with a preview that would import
decently into Word on a PC (hence our trial version of Corel).
- Does ANYBODY have a decent truly working solution for this? If clients
keep asking, we're going to have to have a viable solution that will look &
print nicely on a PC, and export nicely to PDF.
THANKS!
Re: Best Format for Placing Vector Graphics
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 14:30:01 -0400, Jethro wrote:
I think what you're not realizing is that there is no perfect solution that
takes into account all variables. EPS is excellent but you must output to a
PostScript device. To use a bitmapped format requires a high resolution to
avoid jaggies. WMF just plain sucks. JPEG has artifacts. BMPs get huge.
PNGs can be fuzzy. They have have an issue that someone somewhere whines
about.
My suggestion is to use EPS, realize they don't look great on the screen,
develop a PostScript workflow, and stop looking for what doesn't exist. Just
figure that output must be to a PostScript printer, which includes PDFs.
They will be crisp and the color will be accurate if you need it (since Word
and Windows can't do accurate color).
You'll have a job of explaining to clients what's what. You might want to
hire a third party to help with that, because if you don't know the graphics
issues yourself, they will detect it.
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