Browsers are not created equally

R

robert

Hello
My site is almost complete and looks good when viewing with IE, then I discovered that the same site looks scrambled when viewing with Netscape Navigator. I can’t imagine what it will look like with AOL or on a Mac.

Does anybody know what I can do to fix this problem? Does FrontPage have any internal fixes for this problem? And why would this happen? Shouldn’t html pages view the same in any browser? I don’t get it! All I know is that my site is useless unless viewed with IE on a PC.
Help
Thanks,
robert
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

URL ?

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================


robert said:
Hello
My site is almost complete and looks good when viewing with IE, then I discovered that the same
site looks scrambled when viewing with Netscape Navigator. I can't imagine what it will look like
with AOL or on a Mac.
Does anybody know what I can do to fix this problem? Does FrontPage have any internal fixes for
this problem? And why would this happen? Shouldn't html pages view the same in any browser? I don
't get it! All I know is that my site is useless unless viewed with IE on a PC.
 
R

robert

Hello Thomas,
Thanks for looking into this
I haven’t created the island pop ups link pages yet, as I want to iron out the bugs before making the island pages. But the category links should work. I know the border that surrounds the database goes off the screen when no results are returned for a particular category, i'll fix that this weekend.
Why must this happen? Why cant everyone just use IE and make my life easier?????
www.mygayneighborhoodclassifieds.com
Thanks
robert
 
E

E. T. Culling

I hope you didn't use absolute positioning! If you did... change over to
tables and cells!
ETC
robert said:
Hello
My site is almost complete and looks good when viewing with IE, then I
discovered that the same site looks scrambled when viewing with Netscape
Navigator. I can't imagine what it will look like with AOL or on a Mac.
Does anybody know what I can do to fix this problem? Does FrontPage have
any internal fixes for this problem? And why would this happen? Shouldn't
html pages view the same in any browser? I don't get it! All I know is
that my site is useless unless viewed with IE on a PC.
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

Robert,

The main issue is the use of Absolute Positioning which is not well support in various browser,
versions, OSs and resolutions, best to avoid and structure your page layout using tables where you
can pretty much be sure that all users will see the site as you have designed it or very close to
it.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================


robert said:
Hello Thomas,
Thanks for looking into this
I haven't created the island pop ups link pages yet, as I want to iron out the bugs before making
the island pages. But the category links should work. I know the border that surrounds the
database goes off the screen when no results are returned for a particular category, i'll fix that
this weekend.
 
P

Peter Aitken

Thomas A. Rowe said:
Robert,

The main issue is the use of Absolute Positioning which is not well support in various browser,
versions, OSs and resolutions, best to avoid and structure your page layout using tables where you
can pretty much be sure that all users will see the site as you have designed it or very close to
it.

Even so, Navigator will render some tables differently from IE. I have found
this to be a problem sometimes when the table contains empty cells.
Unfortunately there is no real option other than using both IE and Navigator
to preview your pages before publishing them - and Opera and others if you
really want to be compulsive.
 
R

robert

Hello
wow, This sounds like a major redesign. I don't know anything about tables and cells. If i were to use tables and cells could i make my site look the same way as it does now?
Thanks
robert
 
T

Thomas A. Rowe

You could make it look similar to your current design, but it will take time and effort.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)

FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================


robert said:
Hello
wow, This sounds like a major redesign. I don't know anything about tables and cells. If i were
to use tables and cells could i make my site look the same way as it does now?
 
C

Crash Gordon®

Robert,

While your at redesigning you may want to optimize your graphics images. Your main banner image is over 300K in file size.

Just a thought,,

Robo


| Hello
| wow, This sounds like a major redesign. I don't know anything about tables and cells. If i were to use tables and cells could i make my site look the same way as it does now?
| Thanks
| robert
|
| "Thomas A. Rowe" wrote:
|
| > Robert,
| >
| > The main issue is the use of Absolute Positioning which is not well support in various browser,
| > versions, OSs and resolutions, best to avoid and structure your page layout using tables where you
| > can pretty much be sure that all users will see the site as you have designed it or very close to
| > it.
| >
| > --
| > ==============================================
| > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
| >
| > FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| > ==============================================
| > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| >
| > | > > Hello Thomas,
| > > Thanks for looking into this
| > > I haven't created the island pop ups link pages yet, as I want to iron out the bugs before making
| > the island pages. But the category links should work. I know the border that surrounds the
| > database goes off the screen when no results are returned for a particular category, i'll fix that
| > this weekend.
| > > Why must this happen? Why cant everyone just use IE and make my life easier?????
| > > www.mygayneighborhoodclassifieds.com
| > > Thanks
| > > robert
| > >
| > >
| > > "Thomas A. Rowe" wrote:
| > >
| > > > URL ?
| > > >
| > > > --
| > > > ==============================================
| > > > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
| > > > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
| > > >
| > > > FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
| > > > ==============================================
| > > > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
| > > > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
| > > >
| > > > | > > > > Hello
| > > > > My site is almost complete and looks good when viewing with IE, then I discovered that the
| > same
| > > > site looks scrambled when viewing with Netscape Navigator. I can't imagine what it will look
| > like
| > > > with AOL or on a Mac.
| > > > >
| > > > > Does anybody know what I can do to fix this problem? Does FrontPage have any internal fixes
| > for
| > > > this problem? And why would this happen? Shouldn't html pages view the same in any browser? I
| > don
| > > > 't get it! All I know is that my site is useless unless viewed with IE on a PC.
| > > > > Help
| > > > > Thanks,
| > > > > robert
| > > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| > > >
| >
| >
| >
 
A

Andrew Murray

all i get is a million web broswer windows opening at once.....
is that intended!?

robert said:
Hello Thomas,
Thanks for looking into this
I haven't created the island pop ups link pages yet, as I want to iron out the
bugs before making the island pages. But the category links should work. I know
the border that surrounds the database goes off the screen when no results are
returned for a particular category, i'll fix that this weekend.
 
N

Nat

This thread relates to an issue I am wrestling with at the moment. I am
venturing into web design for the first time and I have done a lot of reading
etc. on the topic and have been playing with the process. I have FrontPage
2003 available and it seems so neat and clean and the results (on IE) look
pretty good. However, I am also aware that the appearance on another browser
system may completely distort the structure as it appears in FrontPage (and
IE). It has been suggested by some of the books I've read that a designer
should build from scratch, e.g. in Notepad or some other appropriate
software, and use Cascading Style Sheets. The book says that building the
source code in this fashion will eliminate the problems inherent in "browser
distortion." The questions I have are: 1) Does FrontPage 2003 still suffer
from "browser distortion"? 2) Does using a "ground up" approach to HTML code
and CSS actually solve this "distortion" problem? I am loath to get into all
of the additional work in designing using only source code, but may be
willing if the results are of high quality.
 
C

Chris Leeds, MVP-FrontPage

Hi Old Hippie,
I'm going to try to answer your questions inline interspersed with the text
you originally posted;

--
Chris Leeds,
Microsoft MVP-FrontPage

ContentSeed: great tool for web masters,
a fantastic convenience for site owners.
http://contentseed.com/
--
Nat said:
This thread relates to an issue I am wrestling with at the moment. I am
venturing into web design for the first time and I have done a lot of reading
etc. on the topic and have been playing with the process. I have FrontPage
2003 available and it seems so neat and clean and the results (on IE) look
pretty good.

consider yourself lucky to have that version one of the most powerful and
useful features is the "split view". I think, as a new developer, you ought
to keep that view open as much as possible. you'll be able to see what's
happening with the source code as you make changes in the "design view" pane
below.

However, I am also aware that the appearance on another browser
system may completely distort the structure as it appears in FrontPage (and
IE).

Well, that's not necessarily true. If you stay away from absolute
positioning of elements and using "Vector" graphics such as word art, and
the like you should be pretty OK. even the best sites will look slightly
different in various browsers. you'll find the functions under File/
Preview/ .... helpful to pop your page up in various browsers you have
loaded on your system.

It has been suggested by some of the books I've read that a designer
should build from scratch, e.g. in Notepad or some other appropriate
software, and use Cascading Style Sheets.

While I completely advocate the use of style sheets (a great book is html
utopia from www.sitepoint.com), in my opinion, using notepad is a very bad
piece of advice. sure i use a plain text editor here and there, for
specific things but in general it's just not feasable to use notepad to
create websites. it's too slow and you'd have to be an absolute expert in
HTML code to be able to write a deeply nested complicated table with
graphics and whatnot in notepad. it's just bad advice.

The book says that building the
source code in this fashion will eliminate the problems inherent in "browser
distortion."

it won't. not pad is just a text editor and whatever you type on it will be
rendered however it'll be rendered. it's bad advice.

The questions I have are: 1) Does FrontPage 2003 still suffer
from "browser distortion"?

Not if you follow the above warnings. ;-)

2) Does using a "ground up" approach to HTML code
and CSS actually solve this "distortion" problem?

No, mistakes are mistakes regardless of whether a software program makes
them or you make them yourself in notepad. one thing to think about;
who do you think is going to make more mistakes; a new developer
ham-handedly struggling to write pages in notepad, or the room full of
highly skilled programmers that microsoft employs to make Frontpage, or that
Macromedia employs to make DreamWeaver??

I am loath to get into all
of the additional work in designing using only source code, but may be
willing if the results are of high quality.

not worth it. stick with frontpage, learn a little style sheet stuff and
test frequently (as your building).

HTH

fact, FrontPage 2003 allows you to target specific browser or screen
resolutions, or see how your site will look in various combinations of
browsers and resolutions-including simultaneous previewing of multiple
browsersdiscovered that the same site looks scrambled when viewing with Netscape
Navigator. I can't imagine what it will look like with AOL or on a Mac.have any internal fixes for this problem? And why would this happen?
Shouldn't html pages view the same in any browser? I don't get it! All I
know is that my site is useless unless viewed with IE on a PC.
 
M

Mike Mueller

Site distortion is directly proportional to complexity- text
only sites look pretty much the same regardless of browser
It is when fancy stuff (java, dhtml, javascript menus,
layers, positioning) gets added to it that sites MAY look
different.



Nat wrote:
: This thread relates to an issue I am wrestling with at
: the moment. I am venturing into web design for the first
: time and I have done a lot of reading etc. on the topic
: and have been playing with the process. I have FrontPage
: 2003 available and it seems so neat and clean and the
: results (on IE) look pretty good. However, I am also
: aware that the appearance on another browser system may
: completely distort the structure as it appears in
: FrontPage (and IE). It has been suggested by some of the
: books I've read that a designer should build from
: scratch, e.g. in Notepad or some other appropriate
: software, and use Cascading Style Sheets. The book says
: that building the source code in this fashion will
: eliminate the problems inherent in "browser distortion."
: The questions I have are: 1) Does FrontPage 2003 still
: suffer from "browser distortion"? 2) Does using a "ground
: up" approach to HTML code and CSS actually solve this
: "distortion" problem? I am loath to get into all of the
: additional work in designing using only source code, but
: may be willing if the results are of high quality.
:
: "Old Hippie" wrote:
:
:: Upgrade to FrontPage 2003 and ALL your troubles will be
:: solved per the following page on the Microsoft site:
::
:: FrontPage 2003 Frequently Asked Questions
::
http://www.microsoft.com/office/frontpage/prodinfo/faq.mspx
:: Q. What browsers does FrontPage 2003 support?
:: A. Sites created with FrontPage 2003 can be viewed in
:: any browser. In fact, FrontPage 2003 allows you to
:: target specific browser or screen resolutions, or see
:: how your site will look in various combinations of
:: browsers and resolutions-including simultaneous
:: previewing of multiple browsers
::
:: Billy Gates wouldn't lie to us....would he?
::
::
:: "robert" wrote:
::
::: Hello
::: My site is almost complete and looks good when viewing
::: with IE, then I discovered that the same site looks
::: scrambled when viewing with Netscape Navigator. I
::: can't imagine what it will look like with AOL or on a
::: Mac.
:::
::: Does anybody know what I can do to fix this problem?
::: Does FrontPage have any internal fixes for this
::: problem? And why would this happen? Shouldn't html
::: pages view the same in any browser? I don't get it!
::: All I know is that my site is useless unless viewed
::: with IE on a PC. Help
::: Thanks,
::: robert
 
M

Murray

Here's my suggestion. Learn HTML and CSS. Spend some time doing it. You
will find that when you have a good solid foundation in both of those, the
details of the HTML authoring system you are using, or which one you are
using, become much less important.
 
A

Andrew Murray

I would continue using FP2003, but you can "tweak" the code in code view (and at
the same time get to know what the code is doing and how it does it).

Nat said:
This thread relates to an issue I am wrestling with at the moment. I am
venturing into web design for the first time and I have done a lot of reading
etc. on the topic and have been playing with the process. I have FrontPage
2003 available and it seems so neat and clean and the results (on IE) look
pretty good. However, I am also aware that the appearance on another browser
system may completely distort the structure as it appears in FrontPage (and
IE). It has been suggested by some of the books I've read that a designer
should build from scratch, e.g. in Notepad or some other appropriate
software, and use Cascading Style Sheets. The book says that building the
source code in this fashion will eliminate the problems inherent in "browser
distortion." The questions I have are: 1) Does FrontPage 2003 still suffer
from "browser distortion"? 2) Does using a "ground up" approach to HTML code
and CSS actually solve this "distortion" problem? I am loath to get into all
of the additional work in designing using only source code, but may be
willing if the results are of high quality.
FrontPage 2003 allows you to target specific browser or screen resolutions, or
see how your site will look in various combinations of browsers and
resolutions-including simultaneous previewing of multiple browsersdiscovered that the same site looks scrambled when viewing with Netscape
Navigator. I can't imagine what it will look like with AOL or on a Mac.any internal fixes for this problem? And why would this happen? Shouldn't html
pages view the same in any browser? I don't get it! All I know is that my site
is useless unless viewed with IE on a PC.
 
K

KatWoman

Do you offer products from Pevonia?
I am curious about where you got those images?

the massage page crashed my browser.
 

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