bug? cannot specify 10-point type size in table style

[James Stoicheff]

I cannot specify the point size 10 for type in either a
new or existing table style. This is true with all
TrueType and Type 1 fonts I've tried, on three different
computers all running Windows XP Professional and Word
XP. At least one of the machines has all of the latest
updates to both Word XP and Windows XP (by which I mean
that when I go to the website and have it check my
machine for needed updates, I'm told there are none).
I've tried renaming the Normal.dot template and
rebooting. I get the same behavior afterward. The
behavior also occurs in documents associated with
templates other than Normal.dot.

To recreate:

1. Open a new document.
2. If the Task Pane is not displayed and showing the
Styles and Formatting pane, click the Styles and
Formatting button.
3. Select All Styles from the Show drop-down menu at the
bottom of the Task Pane.
4. Click the down arrow at the right end of any listed
table style. When the drop-down menu appears, select
Modify...
5. In the Formatting portion of the Modify Style dialog
box, enter "10" as the font size. When you tab out of the
font size field, the "10" disappears, the field becomes
blank, and the text in the preview pane is displayed at
12 points.
6. Enter any other whole number (I tried a variety of
numbers between 1 and 1000). The text changes to that
size.

I thought maybe 10 was the default size, but it's not. If
you don't enter anything in the field, the size is set to
12.

I'd be grateful if others would verify this. Also, if you
can think of a way to get 10 to stick, please let me know.

 

[Cindy M -WordMVP-]

Hi James,

I'd be grateful if others would verify this.

Verified. I've never found any way to get a table style to
accept a 10 point font size, nor heard why this should be
so.

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update
Sep 30 2003)
http://www.mvps.org/word

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[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

Judging from other threads (to which I have paid insufficient attention
because I don't use table styles), your ability to define font formats in a
table depends on whether or not you have modified the default Normal style.
It's very quirky, frustrating, and unsatisfactory, but I believe Beth Melton
may have figured out the principle involved.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
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[Cindy M -WordMVP-]

Hi Suzanne,

Judging from other threads (to which I have paid insufficient attention
because I don't use table styles), your ability to define font formats in a
table depends on whether or not you have modified the default Normal style.
It's very quirky, frustrating, and unsatisfactory, but I believe Beth Melton
may have figured out the principle involved.

Not that the problem was mine and that you needed to reply to me but... No,
there's a special problem with 10 point, especially with Arial (I can usually
get it to work with other fonts).

Cindy Meister
INTER-Solutions, Switzerland
http://homepage.swissonline.ch/cindymeister (last update Sep 30 2003)
http://www.mvps.org/word

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[Beth Melton]

Did I hear my name? <g>

I don't think this was me on this specific issue but I did encounter
another bug along the same lines: The font size for the Normal style
is higher than 12 pts then the Font Size for the Table Style will not
be used. Instead it will use the font size for the Normal style.

I'm sure the 10 pt font size but is in the same vein. I tried to
figure out something for the problem with a 10 pt font size but other
than using a character style to work around the issue I'm clueless.

Perhaps MS is trying to prove a 'point' about Times New Roman 10 pts?
We kept saying we don't want to see it and now we turn around and want
it back. <BG>

And, the same behavior occurs in Word 2003.
--
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Klaus Linke]

Not that the problem was mine and that you needed to reply to me
but... No, there's a special problem with 10 point, especially with
Arial (I can usually get it to work with other fonts).

Seems that Word thinks the style's font size already is 10 pt:
? ActiveDocument.Styles("Table Grid").Font.Size
10

Same for the base style "Table Normal":
? ActiveDocument.Styles("Table Grid").BaseStyle.Font.Size
10

You can "fix" the problem by defining the "Normal" style with 10 pt (since
that is where "Table Normal" actually gets the size from).

Somebody seems to have thunk that setting the default for tables as 10 pt
(smaller than normal Body text) would have been nice (I'd agree), but then
implemented the mother of all table styles ("Table Normal") to inherit the
size from the "Normal" style.

:-( Klaus

 

[Klaus Linke]

Hi Beth,

Perhaps MS is trying to prove a 'point' about Times New
Roman 10 pts?
We kept saying we don't want to see it and now we turn
around and want it back. <BG>

<VBG>!

BTW, see also Margaret Aldis' reply in
From: "Vivian Carroll" <[email protected]>
Subject: Space after in Table Style
Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 08:40:19 -0800
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

I wasn't aware of this mess before. Seems you can only properly use table
styles if you don't customize your "Normal" style at all (except for
changing it "back" to 10 pts).

Klaus

 

[Beth Melton]

I suspect the intention of Table Styles was for Table Formats:
grid/borders/shading, etc. rather than font and paragraph formats but
it just didn't work out that way...

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Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/

 

[Klaus Linke]

I suspect the intention of Table Styles was for Table Formats:
grid/borders/shading, etc. rather than font and paragraph formats
but it just didn't work out that way...

It's unfortunate that many design errors that were made with character
styles were repeated with table styles and list styles.

For example, Ctrl+Q will remove paragraph styles from a table, just like
Ctrl+Spacebar removes character styles from a paragraph... yucch!
Or you cant't see or tell the applied paragraph style at all in a table if
you have also applied a character style.
Telling which of possibly 4 different styles are applied to some text is a
complete mess, even with VBA.
And as in the case of the current thread, it's hard to tell where some
formatting is resulting from.

As has been said by many over the years:
Paragraph styles should have only contained paragraph formatting, character
styles character formatting, analogous for table and list styles.
Paragraph styles should take their character formatting from some attached
character style ("DPF" for that paragraph style), table styles from some
paragraph and character style, and so on.
All four should have gotten separate dropdowns on the formatting toolbar.

Well, on the positive side, there now is consistency in the madness :-/

Klaus