Bullet format changes between MAC and PC

[DebbieM]

I have used bullets in a document I created using Word 2008 on my
MAC. When others open this document the bullets are strange
symbols. I'm using a basic circle bullet - nothing different. How
can I keep formatting the same when I share me files with other MAC or
PC users.

 

[Michael Vilain]

I have used bullets in a document I created using Word 2008 on my
MAC. When others open this document the bullets are strange
symbols. I'm using a basic circle bullet - nothing different. How
can I keep formatting the same when I share me files with other MAC or
PC users.

This is a basic non-portable quirk of Mac vs PC versions of documents.
You'll have the same problem with (tm) and (reg). Either create a
Mac-only version of the document or run the PC version of Word on your
Mac using Crossover. It's one or the other. You can't have both.

 

[CyberTaz]

What you're witnessing is most likely attributable to a simple difference in
available fonts or font versions on the 2 computers. This is always a
consideration for files that have to be transferred from one system to
another even if the program version & operating system are the same. Make
sure that the fonts used are comparable & are installed on both computer...
those supplied with Office 2007/2008 are highly reliable in that regard
because they are specifically designed with Mac/PC compatibility in mind.

If that isn't the problem it's possible that a Language setting is causing
the characters to be misinterpreted, especially if content was copied from
another source. If the font change doesn't correct the problem reply with
more detailed information including:

Your exact version & update level of both Office & OS X,
Exact version of PC Word involved,
What Fonts you are using,
How the files are getting to the other systems,
Any additional details you can supply.

 

[CyberTaz]

This is a basic non-portable quirk of Mac vs PC versions of documents.
You'll have the same problem with (tm) and (reg). Either create a
Mac-only version of the document or run the PC version of Word on your
Mac using Crossover. It's one or the other. You can't have both.

How about substantiating your bias with some documented facts? I'm sure we'd
all like to know exactly why you think we can't do exactly what we've been
doing [successfully] for years.

You're most welcome to whatever opinions you choose to hold & share those
opinions if you wish, but please identify them as such accordingly. Don't
misinform others based on your opinions by stating them as if they were
*facts*. If you have nothing valid or constructive to offer there's really
no need to comment at all.

 

[Clive Huggan]

Hello Debbie,

I never experience this problem, and my documents go frequently from Mac to
PC and back. However, I am using Word 2004 and I'm reluctant to get too far
into this (others will, soon, no doubt) because of the possibility of
differences unique to Word 2008.

Suffice to say I apply bullets via a paragraph style (when the document is
relatively short and simple) or by keying a bullet character. The
specifications of the style (I title it "sb") are on page 174 and my
observations, including about manual keying, are on page 155 ("Bullets") in
some notes on the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your
Will", which are available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html).

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

Note: In Word 2008, some of this information may be accessible through a
different interface. If that causes problems, post back and someone will
help you further.

By the way, I quickly apply styles via a keyboard shortcut: Command-Shift-s
followed by a two-character abbreviation (sb in this case). That's also
discussed in "Bend Word to Your Will".

So stick around, Debbie, for more Word 2008-specific advice, which I have no
doubt will come soon.

By the way, "MAC" stands for Media Access Control". "Mac" is short for a
variety of apple and is not upper-cased. ;-)

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the Americas and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
====================================================

 

[Michael Vilain]

This is a basic non-portable quirk of Mac vs PC versions of documents.
You'll have the same problem with (tm) and (reg). Either create a
Mac-only version of the document or run the PC version of Word on your
Mac using Crossover. It's one or the other. You can't have both.

How about substantiating your bias with some documented facts? I'm sure we'd
all like to know exactly why you think we can't do exactly what we've been
doing [successfully] for years.

You're most welcome to whatever opinions you choose to hold & share those
opinions if you wish, but please identify them as such accordingly. Don't
misinform others based on your opinions by stating them as if they were
*facts*. If you have nothing valid or constructive to offer there's really
no need to comment at all.

Ok, here's my facts.

If I insert option-2 or option-R or option-8 characters into a Macintosh
Word document (I use Word 2004), they won't display correctly when that
document is opened by a PC. They'll show up as something different than
what I inserted. That's what I'm talking about.

What were you talking about Mr. MVP I'm so important I need to prove it
to everyone and not just my mother.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Michael:

Oh... Now I understand... You are using an ancient technique that inserts
MacRoman-encoded bullets as hard-coded characters.

Yep: Those sometimes do create strange effects cross-platform, and on some
modern Macs too.

For what it is worth, if you use those keystrokes from Mac Word 2008, and
set the font to Calibri, those characters will display perfectly in Word
2007/2010. I know because I just tested it...

Word 2008 employs full Unicode encoding, which makes it much more likely to
succeed cross-platform.

In earlier versions of Word, you have to ensure that you are set to a font
that PC users will have. Because old versions of Word encode a "Font name"
plus a "Macintosh Character Number" pair, for unusual characters. If the PC
does not have the font, or the character numbers are not the same in its
version of the font (and chances are it won't be...) then you will get
strange effects.

If you use the List Bullet style in modern versions of Mac Word (or the
Bullets Button) what you see is what they will get, in any modern version of
Word. If they do not have the font you used at the other end, Word on the
PC will retrieve the character from the closest matching font that they do
have.

Sorry: But it's completely portable, and your advice is 10 years out of
date

Cheers

I have used bullets in a document I created using Word 2008 on my
MAC. When others open this document the bullets are strange
symbols. I'm using a basic circle bullet - nothing different. How
can I keep formatting the same when I share me files with other MAC or
PC users.

This is a basic non-portable quirk of Mac vs PC versions of documents.
You'll have the same problem with (tm) and (reg). Either create a
Mac-only version of the document or run the PC version of Word on your
Mac using Crossover. It's one or the other. You can't have both.

How about substantiating your bias with some documented facts? I'm sure we'd
all like to know exactly why you think we can't do exactly what we've been
doing [successfully] for years.

You're most welcome to whatever opinions you choose to hold & share those
opinions if you wish, but please identify them as such accordingly. Don't
misinform others based on your opinions by stating them as if they were
*facts*. If you have nothing valid or constructive to offer there's really
no need to comment at all.

Ok, here's my facts.

If I insert option-2 or option-R or option-8 characters into a Macintosh
Word document (I use Word 2004), they won't display correctly when that
document is opened by a PC. They'll show up as something different than
what I inserted. That's what I'm talking about.

What were you talking about Mr. MVP I'm so important I need to prove it
to everyone and not just my mother.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Michael Vilain]

Hi Michael:

Oh... Now I understand... You are using an ancient technique that inserts
MacRoman-encoded bullets as hard-coded characters.

Yep: Those sometimes do create strange effects cross-platform, and on some
modern Macs too.

For what it is worth, if you use those keystrokes from Mac Word 2008, and
set the font to Calibri, those characters will display perfectly in Word
2007/2010. I know because I just tested it...

Word 2008 employs full Unicode encoding, which makes it much more likely to
succeed cross-platform.

In earlier versions of Word, you have to ensure that you are set to a font
that PC users will have. Because old versions of Word encode a "Font name"
plus a "Macintosh Character Number" pair, for unusual characters. If the PC
does not have the font, or the character numbers are not the same in its
version of the font (and chances are it won't be...) then you will get
strange effects.

If you use the List Bullet style in modern versions of Mac Word (or the
Bullets Button) what you see is what they will get, in any modern version of
Word. If they do not have the font you used at the other end, Word on the
PC will retrieve the character from the closest matching font that they do
have.

Sorry: But it's completely portable, and your advice is 10 years out of
date

Cheers

I have used bullets in a document I created using Word 2008 on my
MAC. When others open this document the bullets are strange
symbols. I'm using a basic circle bullet - nothing different. How
can I keep formatting the same when I share me files with other MAC or
PC users.

This is a basic non-portable quirk of Mac vs PC versions of documents.
You'll have the same problem with (tm) and (reg). Either create a
Mac-only version of the document or run the PC version of Word on your
Mac using Crossover. It's one or the other. You can't have both.

--
DeeDee, don't press that button! DeeDee! NO! Dee...
[I filter all Goggle Groups posts, so any reply may be automatically by
ignored]


How about substantiating your bias with some documented facts? I'm sure
we'd
all like to know exactly why you think we can't do exactly what we've been
doing [successfully] for years.

You're most welcome to whatever opinions you choose to hold & share those
opinions if you wish, but please identify them as such accordingly. Don't
misinform others based on your opinions by stating them as if they were
*facts*. If you have nothing valid or constructive to offer there's really
no need to comment at all.

Ok, here's my facts.

If I insert option-2 or option-R or option-8 characters into a Macintosh
Word document (I use Word 2004), they won't display correctly when that
document is opened by a PC. They'll show up as something different than
what I inserted. That's what I'm talking about.

What were you talking about Mr. MVP I'm so important I need to prove it
to everyone and not just my mother.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

It may be 10 years out of date, but I get documents from PC Word that
someone has sent me (I insist they save it as Word 2004) with this
problem all the time. I tell them if they want portability to use (tm),
(reg), or * or o instead of the high-ascii characters. People still
post stuff to an email forum I manage with these characters and it just
confuses one group (mac or PC users) what the other means. So, in your
world it's a 10 year old problem but in mine, I deal with it all the
time and have to explain it to both types of users.

I guess I tripped over the phrase "I have used bullets in a document"
which to me means they actually inserted bullet characters rather than
using a bulleted list style. I don't recall having problems with Word
2004 figuring how to "do the right thing" with those lists between the
Mac and PC version. So when the OP said they had this problem I figured
they were actually inserting the characters.

[I don't recall emailing you anything, just replying to your post. So
what's this about paying you for forum related matters? If that's part
of your signature, you should put it below the "--"]

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Michael:

It may be 10 years out of date, but I get documents from PC Word that
someone has sent me (I insist they save it as Word 2004) with this
problem all the time.

Yes, well if they downgrade the document to .doc, there will be conversion
issues, and they are not always predictable. Much safer to install the
filter in Mac Word 2004 so you can handle .docx in Word 2004. It's not
"actually" a "filter", it's most of the I/O module out of Word 2008, so it
does a pretty good job!

I tell them if they want portability to use (tm),
(reg), or * or o instead of the high-ascii characters.

That would give them a moment of confusion: PC Word has been in Unicode
since Word 97. So they can't avoid "high ASCII characters" since their text
is not actually in ASCII

Basically, my message is "If you stop trying to work around the problem, you
will find that it no longer exists." Even Entourage works if you force it
into Unicode, although it sometimes seems incapable of correctly displaying
Unicode unless you force it.

[I don't recall emailing you anything, just replying to your post. So
what's this about paying you for forum related matters? If that's part
of your signature, you should put it below the "--"]

Thanks, you're right... I had to re-create the .sigs when I moved to OS
10.6, and I must have been careless. Fixed now...

--

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]