can anyone explain this behavior

[Dr Q]

Hi.

Sorry for the cryptic subject header. I am running Entourage 2004 ver
11.3.6 on MacOS 10.4.11. I have 5 accounts set up in Entourage: Gmail
(POP), Hotmail, AIM (IMAP), Work (Exchange server) and Yahoo Bizmail
(POP).

So I sent an email using my default account (GMail) to my hotmail
account. When the message"arrived in my hotmail account and Entourage
saw the message, Entourage moved the message to my local inbox and
moved the message on the Hotmail server to deleted items folder.

Can anyone explain why Entourage handled this problem this way and
more importantly how to prevent it. Is it perhaps the fact that I am
in my own address book? The majority of my messages in my hotmail
account are from senders not in my address book and I do not have this
problem with other messages I receive in my Hotmail account.

Thanks.

 

[Diane Ross]

So I sent an email using my default account (GMail) to my hotmail
account. When the message"arrived in my hotmail account and Entourage
saw the message, Entourage moved the message to my local inbox and
moved the message on the Hotmail server to deleted items folder.

The mail moved on your Hotmail server was probably a setting in your Hotmail
account.

If Entourage receives a message and the sender is in your Address Book then
the message goes to your Inbox unless you have a rule that moves it to
another folder.

We are seeing more security measures lately that make some of our legitimate
mail more difficult to handle. Gmail sees mail sent from you as spam. If you
send to a list then Gmail and will delete your messages to the list to save
you seeing it again. There is no way to turn off Gmail spam filtering.
Comcast does have the option to turn it off.

Comcast spam filter blocks mail from ŒMe¹ (The Entourage Help Blog)
<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2007/11/comcast_spam_filter_blocks_mail_from
_me.html>

 

[Dr Q]

The mail moved on your Hotmail server was probably a setting in your Hotmail
account.

Do you mean in my Entourage settings for the Hotmail account? or the
Hotmail server side?

If Entourage receives a message and the sender is in your Address Book then
the message goes to your Inbox unless you have a rule that moves it to
another folder.

Actually this is exactly what I don't want Entourage to do. Is there a
way to disable this feature? I certainly don't want to write a rule
for everyone of my contacts....

We are seeing more security measures lately that make some of our legitimate
mail more difficult to handle. Gmail sees mail sent from you as spam. If you
send to a list then Gmail and will delete your messages to the list to save
you seeing it again. There is no way to turn off Gmail spam filtering.
Comcast does have the option to turn it off.

My experience with GMail has been the opposite, I have not noticed any
problems with mesages to or from lists I belong too. Nor have I had
any issues with the spam filtering.

Thanks for confirming that the problem I am seeing seems to be related
to messages from my contacts.

 

[Diane Ross]

Do you mean in my Entourage settings for the Hotmail account? or the
Hotmail server side?

From you Hotmail server side setting. You have to access those via your
browser.

Actually this is exactly what I don't want Entourage to do. Is there a
way to disable this feature? I certainly don't want to write a rule
for everyone of my contacts....

Where do you expect your messages to go? Entourage uses the Mailing List
Manager which is a type of rule to help you organize your mail. Any message
coming in to a list can be sent to it's own folder using the Mailing List
Manager.

Custom rules deal with your other mail. For example, if you set up a rule
for all mail coming into a category like "buddy" you can have one rule that
moves all of your buddy mail to your buddy folder. By using a category you
only have to assign the category to your contacts and any contact with this
category including new ones will be processed by your rule. Using categories
can greatly simplify your rules.

From is in category Buddy
Is not from a mailing list

Move message to folder Buddy
Run AppleScript Play sound Buddy.

This last action to run an AppleScript is optional. I use the play sound
option for several categories that I want a special sound used to notify me.
That way when I;m working and I hear buddy, friends, work etc. I know that I
have mail I might want to check out.

See this page for using custom sounds with Entourage. You can even create
your own sounds or use computer voices to announce your mail. For example,
you could have the AppleScript say ³Mail from Dad².

Rule to Play Sound

My experience with GMail has been the opposite, I have not noticed any
problems with mesages to or from lists I belong too. Nor have I had
any issues with the spam filtering.

It's only lists that send subscribers individual messages with a From
address using the original sender¹s E-mail address. A Reply-to header in the
mail message redirects replies to the mailing list server instead of the
original sender so that all subscribers can receive the response.

Overall I have had no problems with Gmail's service, but it sure was
confusing when my messages no longer appeared on lists. The only way I knew
my message was received was when someone replied.

 

[Dr Q]

Where do you expect your messages to go? Entourage uses the Mailing List
Manager which is a type of rule to help you organize your mail. Any message
coming in to a list can be sent to it's own folder using the Mailing List
Manager.

For my accounts that have their own Inbox in my folders view (i.e.
IMAP based accounts, Exchange Server, and Hotmail), I would like
messages to stay on the server and not be moved to my local mailbox.
The only messages I really want in my local inbox are the ones from my
POP accounts. Does that make sense? Also my issue is not related to
mailing list rules. I only have one mailing list rule established in
Entourage and it works fine for preventing the message from being
tagged as spam. My problems are with single user to single user
emails.

Also I checked both my entourage account setup and my hotmail side
options and I did not see anything that would explain why the message
gets deleted on the hotmail side when Entourage downloads it to the
local inbox.

As test, I also tried sending a message from my GMail account to my
AIM account (IMAP protocol). And the same sequence of events happened.

The message was categorized in my AIM account as spam (not unexpected
given it was test message). When I selected my SPAM folder to see the
message, then Entourage recognized it as a message from a recognized
contact and downloaded it to my local inbox and simultaneously moved
it to the deleted items on the AIM server.

I really think this behavior is an Entourage side issue and not a
server settings issue. However, if someone can point me in the right
direction as to what type of setting on the server side might cause
this, I will do my best to track it down.

And thank you for taking time to answer my questions, Diane.

 

[Dr Q]

For my accounts that have their own Inbox in my folders view (i.e.
IMAP based accounts, Exchange Server, and Hotmail), I would like
messages to stay on the server and not be moved to my local mailbox.
The only messages I really want in my local inbox are the ones from my
POP accounts. Does that make sense? Also my issue is not related to
mailing list rules. I only have one mailing list rule established in
Entourage and it works fine for preventing the message from being
tagged as spam. My problems are with single user to single user
emails.

Also I checked both my entourage account setup and my hotmail side
options and I did not see anything that would explain why the message
gets deleted on the hotmail side when Entourage downloads it to the
local inbox.

As test, I also tried sending a message from my GMail account to my
AIM account (IMAP protocol). And the same sequence of events happened.

The message was categorized in my AIM account as spam (not unexpected
given it was test message). When I selected my SPAM folder to see the
message, then Entourage recognized it as a message from a recognized
contact and downloaded it to my local inbox and simultaneously moved
it to the deleted items on the AIM server.

I really think this behavior is an Entourage side issue and not a
server settings issue. However, if someone can point me in the right
direction as to what type of setting on the server side might cause
this, I will do my best to track it down.

And thank you for taking time to answer my questions, Diane.

Just to clarify my desire, what I would like Entourage to do is just
not do anything to messages from my contacts in my non-POP based
account. Just leave them where they are as it does wiht messages from
senders that are not in my address book.

 

[Diane Ross]

For my accounts that have their own Inbox in my folders view (i.e.
IMAP based accounts, Exchange Server, and Hotmail), I would like
messages to stay on the server and not be moved to my local mailbox.
The only messages I really want in my local inbox are the ones from my
POP accounts. Does that make sense?
Yes.

Also my issue is not related to
mailing list rules. I only have one mailing list rule established in
Entourage and it works fine for preventing the message from being
tagged as spam. My problems are with single user to single user
emails.

Do you have any rules set up?

FWIW, having a good Address Book is the key to rules working. Add a category
to all of your contacts to further enable ease of use. Just think of
categories as tags.

Also I checked both my entourage account setup and my hotmail side
options and I did not see anything that would explain why the message
gets deleted on the hotmail side when Entourage downloads it to the
local inbox.

Open your Account. Check under the Advanced tab for any settings that delete
or move messages. I should have thought of this before. Sorry!

And thank you for taking time to answer my questions, Diane.

You're welcome.

 

[Dr Q]

Do you have any rules set up?

No rules set up at all under Tools>Rules for any of the account types.
One mailing list rule so that messages from one mailing list are not
tagged as junk mail and moved to the inbox.

FWIW, having a good Address Book is the key to rules working. Add a category
to all of your contacts to further enable ease of use. Just think of
categories as tags.

I do have all my contacts associated with categories. Though I admit
I very rarely find a use for the category labels. I primarily set it
up if I wanted to delete a whole group of contacts associated with

Open your Account. Check under the Advanced tab for any settings that delete
or move messages. I should have thought of this before. Sorry!

I am assuming we are talking about the Entourage account settings. For
my hotmail account, I do not have an advanced tab. I only account
settings, options, security. Nothing in these 3 looks like it deals
with deletion.

For AIM account, there is an Advanced tab. I have the 3 boxes next to
store sent messages, store drafts, store junk mail checked. For the
delete options, The "mark messages as deleted" is not selected. The
Move messages to the deleted items folder is selected and messages are
supposed to be moved to the trash imap folder. The empty deleted items
folder on quit is not checked.

I think these settings are okay because I do want messages moved to
the trash when I choose to delete them. The issue I have is the
automatic deletion without my consent.

 

[Diane Ross]

I am assuming we are talking about the Entourage account settings. Yes

For
my hotmail account, I do not have an advanced tab. I only account
settings, options, security. Nothing in these 3 looks like it deals
with deletion.

For AIM account, there is an Advanced tab. I have the 3 boxes next to
store sent messages, store drafts, store junk mail checked. For the
delete options, The "mark messages as deleted" is not selected. The
Move messages to the deleted items folder is selected and messages are
supposed to be moved to the trash imap folder. The empty deleted items
folder on quit is not checked.

I think these settings are okay because I do want messages moved to
the trash when I choose to delete them. The issue I have is the
automatic deletion without my consent.

I don't have a hotmail account to check. In a regular IMAP account, there
are advanced setting.

I'll ping some MVPs that have Hotmail accounts to see if they can solve
this. The only thing that's left to check is a Schedule for deletions.

 

[Dr Q]

I don't have a hotmail account to check. In a regular IMAP account, there
are advanced setting.

I'll ping some MVPs that have Hotmail accounts to see if they can solve
this. The only thing that's left to check is a Schedule for deletions.

Many thanks. Though so far I am pretty sure the problem is the
treatment of email by Entourage from people in my address book. If I
can get Entourage to not process them differently than those from
senders not in my address book, I can solve my issue. I just don't
know if that is possible.