Can I use Project for this?

[Fr@nk]

Hello. I'm a musician. I'm also an IT pro; not an MBA. I have no working
knowledge of MS Project, but I've attended classes where it's discussed
regularly. I'm trying to determine if Project could be effectively used to
organize/track/manage the entire process of performing a musical ensemble
concert.

I'm asked to organize concerts occasionally, and really just manage them by
common sense. People are put in charge of scheduling, publicity, contacts,
getting the music ready, etc. Since I don't use any software to track these
activities, things can occasionally get missed/forgotten. What little bit I
know about Project tells me that theoretically, Project can keep the
manager/organizer on top of these details, and on top of those who are doing
the details. Am I close?

All the tutorials I've read on Project focus on more "traditional" business
applications: planning dinners, seminars, products, banquets, etc. I have
trouble conceptually with translating these things into the musical things I
listed above (rehearsals, programming music, contracting musicians,
scheduling, publicity, payment of sponsors, etc.).

So, can anyone tell me if MS Project can/should be used to organize musical
concerts? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.


Fr@nk

 

[John]

Hello. I'm a musician. I'm also an IT pro; not an MBA. I have no working
knowledge of MS Project, but I've attended classes where it's discussed
regularly. I'm trying to determine if Project could be effectively used to
organize/track/manage the entire process of performing a musical ensemble
concert.

I'm asked to organize concerts occasionally, and really just manage them by
common sense. People are put in charge of scheduling, publicity, contacts,
getting the music ready, etc. Since I don't use any software to track these
activities, things can occasionally get missed/forgotten. What little bit I
know about Project tells me that theoretically, Project can keep the
manager/organizer on top of these details, and on top of those who are doing
the details. Am I close?

All the tutorials I've read on Project focus on more "traditional" business
applications: planning dinners, seminars, products, banquets, etc. I have
trouble conceptually with translating these things into the musical things I
listed above (rehearsals, programming music, contracting musicians,
scheduling, publicity, payment of sponsors, etc.).

So, can anyone tell me if MS Project can/should be used to organize musical
concerts? Any advice is appreciated. Thanks.


Fr@nk

Fr@nk,
Yes, Project can do that. Project is a schedule management application.
It doesn't really matter whether the end goal is to build something
(e.g. house, widget, airliner, backyard landscape, etc.) or to organize
something (e.g. Rock concert, charity event, inauguration, software
release, etc.), Project can help plan and manage it. I even know some
people who have used it to plan material usage in agricultural
activities (e.g. landscape supplier, cotton field production). As long
as the detail activities required to achieve the end goal are known, the
duration and effort, (Duration is time to perform, effort is Work to
complete), can be estimated, and the sequential relationship between the
activities, (links between tasks), are known, then Project is a good
application to use.

Project is not a "quick learn" application however. There are many
nuances to Project Management and to the Project application itself. It
can be self-taught but that will take a lot of fortitude and time. A
much better approach is to take a class on Project and then use it
concurrently. Project isn't something you can take a class on this month
and then sit down and start using it 6 months from now. Learning it
requires "hands-on". If you cannot find or afford formal training in
Project, you might like to take a look at the help offered by our MVP
website at:
http://www.mvps.org/project
In particular, take a look at Mike Glen's series on Project lessons and
techniques. You will find a link for it under the Links and Downloads on
the MVP page. And of course, we are here to help when you have further
questions.

Hope this helps.
John
Project MVP

 

[Reid McTaggart]

John gave an excellent answer, to which I will only add that Project is
commonly used in the arts. A friend on mine used Project to schedule
production of the movie Apollo 13, which involved all of the types of
activities you mentioned.

It's all about bringing together the right people and materials at the right
times to accomplish things that contribute to achieving your objective.

There's a fun project template that's been floating around for years that
shows how to plan a wedding down to the last detail.

 

[Fr@nk]

Fr@nk,
Yes, Project can do that. Project is a schedule management application.
It doesn't really matter whether the end goal is to build something
(e.g. house, widget, airliner, backyard landscape, etc.) or to organize
something (e.g. Rock concert, charity event, inauguration, software
release, etc.), Project can help plan and manage it. I even know some
people who have used it to plan material usage in agricultural
activities (e.g. landscape supplier, cotton field production). As long
as the detail activities required to achieve the end goal are known, the
duration and effort, (Duration is time to perform, effort is Work to
complete), can be estimated, and the sequential relationship between the
activities, (links between tasks), are known, then Project is a good
application to use.

Project is not a "quick learn" application however. There are many
nuances to Project Management and to the Project application itself. It
can be self-taught but that will take a lot of fortitude and time. A
much better approach is to take a class on Project and then use it
concurrently. Project isn't something you can take a class on this month
and then sit down and start using it 6 months from now. Learning it
requires "hands-on". If you cannot find or afford formal training in
Project, you might like to take a look at the help offered by our MVP
website at:
http://www.mvps.org/project
In particular, take a look at Mike Glen's series on Project lessons and
techniques. You will find a link for it under the Links and Downloads on
the MVP page. And of course, we are here to help when you have further
questions.

Hope this helps.
John
Project MVP

John-

Thank you for the guidance. I checked out the mvps.org pages, and yes, the
lessons/techniques looked really good. I especially learned a lot from the
one on Network Analysis. That one brought back memories of the IT management
class I took last year...there were lots of _references_ to project
management (and MS Project's "name" was used frequently), but it was more of
a teaser than a hands-on class on Project.

I'm hoping the use of a program like Project isn't overkill for my purpose.
Thoughts on that?

I'll study as many tutorials as I can, and take a class if possible. I'm
sure I'll have questions to post along the way, so thanks in advance for the
help!


Fr@nk

 

[John]

Thank you for the guidance. I checked out the mvps.org pages, and yes, the
lessons/techniques looked really good. I especially learned a lot from the
one on Network Analysis. That one brought back memories of the IT management
class I took last year...there were lots of _references_ to project
management (and MS Project's "name" was used frequently), but it was more of
a teaser than a hands-on class on Project.

I'm hoping the use of a program like Project isn't overkill for my purpose.
Thoughts on that?

I'll study as many tutorials as I can, and take a class if possible. I'm
sure I'll have questions to post along the way, so thanks in advance for the
help!


Fr@nk

Fr@nk,
I haven't looked at all of Mike's lessons but I didn't mean to imply
that they were a substitute for a hands-on class. It is a rare bird that
can effectively learn something (especially Project) on a self-taught
basis.

One of the nice things about Project is that it has a nice balance of
features. In my opinion if all the features are used it is indeed
overkill, but some people thrive on that. The nice thing is, Project can
accommodate both power users and people with much more modest needs. If
you only need it for planning a schedule, it can do that. For the less
demanding users, the latest version is an unnecessary expense. I'll
probably get shot down here by my fellow MVPs, but for basic needs,
Project version 4.x (Project 97) is fully adequate and very cheap. The
main disadvantage is lack of support and potential incompatibility with
other users (if your files must be shared). A good compromise is Project
2000. It is still affordable, versatile (I use it every day), supported,
and compatible.

We await your questions.

John
Project MVP

 

[davegb]

Yes, but Apollo 13 was a disaster!

John gave an excellent answer, to which I will only add that Project is
commonly used in the arts. A friend on mine used Project to schedule

 

[John]

Yes, but Apollo 13 was a disaster!

davegb,
Challenger and Columbia were disasters, Apollo 13 (not the movie) was a
technical challenge but I wouldn't call it a disaster. As for the Apollo
13 movie (the reference cited by Reid), it was far from a disaster.

John

 

[davegb]

Thank-you for clarifying that for me John. In the future, I'll remember
to check my dry sense of humor at the door!

 

[Fr@nk]

Fr@nk,
I haven't looked at all of Mike's lessons but I didn't mean to imply
that they were a substitute for a hands-on class. It is a rare bird that
can effectively learn something (especially Project) on a self-taught
basis.

One of the nice things about Project is that it has a nice balance of
features. In my opinion if all the features are used it is indeed
overkill, but some people thrive on that. The nice thing is, Project can
accommodate both power users and people with much more modest needs. If
you only need it for planning a schedule, it can do that. For the less
demanding users, the latest version is an unnecessary expense. I'll
probably get shot down here by my fellow MVPs, but for basic needs,
Project version 4.x (Project 97) is fully adequate and very cheap. The
main disadvantage is lack of support and potential incompatibility with
other users (if your files must be shared). A good compromise is Project
2000. It is still affordable, versatile (I use it every day), supported,
and compatible.

We await your questions.

John
Project MVP

John-

I think I understand the "span" of projects that Project can handle. I'm
reading all I can about project management in general, read something today
which has me wondering if project management software is the best solution
for a musical organization:

(I'm paraphrasing the text I read here There's a distinction between
normal _operations_ of an organization, and _projects_ of an organization.
Normal Operations are repetitive, ongoing, activities/processes. Projects
are non-repetitive, specialized, finite events.

In a musical organization, "Normal Operations" ARE (in a way) repetitive,
ongoing, yet unique, finite events. Normal operations to, say, a symphony
orchestra, are a series of concerts. Week in, week out, x rehearsals and x
concerts. The only major thing that changes is the program (and the date).
Yet for each of these, you can identify and quantify all the tasks,
durations, resources, costs, etc., which project management software uses to
help you.

So, do you feel the "normal operations" of a symphony orchestra, as
described in the preceding paragraph, are indeed a series of projects?
That's how I'm approaching my studies right now. If so, I can more easily
adapt the facets of Project that I learn to a musical organization.

So I guess when I used the term "overkill", I was heading in that direction:
is it even beneficial to use project management software to manage a
repetitive series of projects (all of which ARE collectively "normal
operations")?


Fr@nk

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

Jumping in, I'd say a concert series did fit the bill as a series of similar
but independent projects Each concert can potentially have unique
requirements and when that specific concert is over, it's over and done with
and an identical one will never happen again. Something like production in
an auto plant, OTOH, is continuous and ongoing with each unit coming off the
line essentially identical to those that came before and those that come
after and there is no identifiable "last unit" that marks the completion of
all the production that may be required for all time.

 

[John]

John-

I think I understand the "span" of projects that Project can handle. I'm
reading all I can about project management in general, read something today
which has me wondering if project management software is the best solution
for a musical organization:

(I'm paraphrasing the text I read here There's a distinction between
normal _operations_ of an organization, and _projects_ of an organization.
Normal Operations are repetitive, ongoing, activities/processes. Projects
are non-repetitive, specialized, finite events.

In a musical organization, "Normal Operations" ARE (in a way) repetitive,
ongoing, yet unique, finite events. Normal operations to, say, a symphony
orchestra, are a series of concerts. Week in, week out, x rehearsals and x
concerts. The only major thing that changes is the program (and the date).
Yet for each of these, you can identify and quantify all the tasks,
durations, resources, costs, etc., which project management software uses to
help you.

So, do you feel the "normal operations" of a symphony orchestra, as
described in the preceding paragraph, are indeed a series of projects?
That's how I'm approaching my studies right now. If so, I can more easily
adapt the facets of Project that I learn to a musical organization.

So I guess when I used the term "overkill", I was heading in that direction:
is it even beneficial to use project management software to manage a
repetitive series of projects (all of which ARE collectively "normal
operations")?


Fr@nk

Fr@nk,
Whether concert scheduling of a symphony orchestra is "normal
operations" or "individual projects" is pretty much irrelevant. What do
you need from a management perspective. If all you need is a simple
layout of activities necessary to plan one or more concerts, then
Project, Excel or any other number of applications will do what you
need. If you want to coordinate concert activities and the resources
(perhaps shared) necessary to ensure the "ball" doesn't get dropped,
(e.g. the vocal group is scheduled to perform their own coral concert
the same night they were to provide backup for your concert #3), then a
scheduling application like Project is probably a good choice.

I agree with Steve. Although each of your concerts may be considered
part of "normal operations", each concert is in fact it own separate
project with its own nuances. The only thing I can think of that is
repetitive normal operations is a machine that performs the same task
over and over day in and day out. When humans are involved, time related
activities are never ever normal and repetitive.

Tell you what. Why not try scheduling the concerts with an application
you most likely already have - Excel. See how it works for you. If after
giving it a good test run you find it just isn't doing what you need,
then consider using Project.

John

 

[Fr@nk]

Fr@nk,
Whether concert scheduling of a symphony orchestra is "normal
operations" or "individual projects" is pretty much irrelevant. What do
you need from a management perspective. If all you need is a simple
layout of activities necessary to plan one or more concerts, then
Project, Excel or any other number of applications will do what you
need. If you want to coordinate concert activities and the resources
(perhaps shared) necessary to ensure the "ball" doesn't get dropped,
(e.g. the vocal group is scheduled to perform their own coral concert
the same night they were to provide backup for your concert #3), then a
scheduling application like Project is probably a good choice.

I agree with Steve. Although each of your concerts may be considered
part of "normal operations", each concert is in fact it own separate
project with its own nuances. The only thing I can think of that is
repetitive normal operations is a machine that performs the same task
over and over day in and day out. When humans are involved, time related
activities are never ever normal and repetitive.

Tell you what. Why not try scheduling the concerts with an application
you most likely already have - Excel. See how it works for you. If after
giving it a good test run you find it just isn't doing what you need,
then consider using Project.

John

John-

OK, I think I get the message. Project management software should do a fine
job of keeping track of details for events like the ones I'm asking about.

Now, when you say to try to schedule using something like Excel, I'm not
sure I know what all Excel's capable of. I should add here that I write VBA
applications with MS Access, and use these applications to track all kinds
of "normal operations". The Access system of apps we have at work is _very_
complex, and totally tailored to my workplace. There aren't too many things
people have asked me to write a program for (with Access) that I haven't
been able to write. So you mention Excel, but were you thinking along the
lines of my writing VBA stuff with it? If so, I can do that easily with
Access. But...

That's the reason I've become interested in software like Project. I figure
it's likely much more capable of handling things I wouldn't think to write
code for. That is, Project "knows" project management better than me. So
it's probably more robust(?). And I'd rather not re-invent the wheel?!

But if you were alluding to writing my own VBA application using Excel, I
guess I could invest _some_ time in seeing what type of "project management"
I come up with in Access. Or did I miss your point: does Excel do something
different; does it lend itself better to project management than an
environment like Access? Thanks for the thoughts.


Fr@nk

 

[Steve House [Project MVP]]

Actually Project DOESN'T know more about project managment than you do.
Just like handing someone a copy of MS Word won't make them a publishable
author or a sophisiticated calculator make them an accountant, you need to
pick up some of the theory behind formal project management and especially
critical path methodology in order to use Project effectively. Project is
merely a calculator that can help you predict outcomes of the management
decisions you might make.