Changed files

[JR]

We have links to files (embedded hyperlinks/file icons) on many of our
OnenOte pages. If we make changes to these files, either by clicking on the
embedded link, or opening the file spearately using it;'s host programme, we
get many odd results.

End result, sometimes the file saves the changes, sometimes not and we have
no way of knowing.

We think, that if we open the file from an embedded link, edit the file,
then save the changes BUT leave the orginal application open, the embedded
file won't save the changes.

We also encounter a pop-up message when exiting OneNote that asks us whetehr
to 'discard changes' in an opened file.

All very confusing. Any suggestions to ensuifg our file updates are saved?

Also, would really appricatie it if when working on any embedded file link,
if we use saqve as to create a more recent version, that it would give us the
option of inculing the new file alongside the old in OneNote. Hard to track
versions otherwise.

 

[Grant Robertson]

We have links to files (embedded hyperlinks/file icons) on many of our
OnenOte pages. If we make changes to these files, either by clicking on the
embedded link, or opening the file spearately using it;'s host programme, we
get many odd results.

This is all a result of OneNote 2007's penchant for working entirely out
of the cache even though it looks as if it is working directly on your
main files. Every section in a OneNote notebook as well as all the files
that have been icon-linked onto the page are actually copied into one or
more gigantic files called a cache in a special folder on your computer.
When you edit anything in ON it is actually working on this cache file.
The changes are then copied back out to your original files. Often this
happens instantly so it seems you are actually working on the originals
but you are not.

When you edit a document that has been icon-linked into ON 07 by double-
clicking on it's icon weird stuff happens in the background. OneNote
actually recreates the icon-linked file from the cache and places a copy
of it in your Temp folder. It then opens your external program and feeds
it that file from the temp folder. When you save that file it is just
saving it to the temp folder. Only when you exit the program does OneNote
get the signal that you are done and insert that file back into the
cache. (I think it is suppose to do a kind of continuous update but I
haven't seen it actually work this way.) After it has inserted it into
the cache it immediately recreates yet another copy of that file from the
data in the cache and places that copy into the original folder. This,
again, makes it look as if ON is working directly on the file in your
notebook folder but it is not.

All this weirdness is so you can do all of this even if the notebooks are
actually stored on a server somewhere and you aren't connected to that
server. I have complained about the weirdness but have learned to accept
it. There is a known bug where it ends up creating far too many copies of
the file in the actual ..._onefiles folder but this will be fixed in the
"Technical Refresh".

The weirdness can cause several problems. If you exit OneNote before
actually exiting the other program then OneNote will not know you have
finished and will not be able to do the last of the weirdness and get the
final version back into the cache. There is another known bug where
OneNote thinks the program is still open and thinks you will loose your
edits. This is why it pops up the error message every time you edit a
file this way. It also starts hogging all the CPU time and bogs down your
computer. The only way to stop that is to then exit and restart ON.

If you attempt to edit the file directly out of your OneNote notebook
folder things get hosed up as well. I speculate that OneNote probably
actually does watch that folder so it will know if some other instance of
OneNote on some other computer has modified that file. But I have not had
good luck with directly editing the file.

Yet another weirdness comes about when you first create the icon-link.
OneNote actually copies the file from it's original location to a special
folder named after the section where you placed the link. This folder is
called "section-name_onefiles". (Remember, this is then ALSO copied into
the cache file.) If you hover over the link you will see a popup where
OneNote tells you where the original file WAS LOCATED AT THE TIME YOU
CREATED THE LINK. If you double-click on the link it opens the copy
(which seems like it is being opened out of the _onefiles folder but is
really that temp file recreated from the cache). Since keeping this
original file is just confusing and redundant I usually delete that file
and only work on the file which is stored within OneNote.

This is so much of a problem that MS recommends that we just not use this
feature at least till the "Technical Refresh" comes out.

Since this is all so darned nebulous I only put files into OneNote that I
am only keeping around for reference like notes for school and such. Real
documents, like letters or actual school papers, I keep in a separate
folder structure and only use the hyperlink feature. This is the one you
get when you drag a file onto a ON page and choose "Insert a link to the
original file." When you click on this particular type of link you are
actually editing the original file from its original location.

 

[JR]

Great answer Grant. Not sure I wanted to know it, htough, as the main point
of OneNote, for us in linking to files.....

We seem to have found another solution. It you wish to hyperlink to a file,
it is best to stay with the actual hyperlink and NOT the file icon.

The file icon appears to link to a temp document located on on the host
computer under :\Documents and Settings\usernameLocal Settings\Temp\OneNote
and then numbers the file 0-17 or some such. This is the eveil twin.

We seem to get the file link function to work under the following conditions
DO NOT use the >insert>files option - ever - that puts an icon on the
OneNote page which if clicked on creates all the weirdness you describe below.
DO
1)use the >insert>hyperlink function to link to a file. You can click on
this hyperlink make changes to the original document in real time, save and
reopen and all seems good.
) use the >insert>files as printouts function, but once this has loaded onto
the OnenOte page, delete the file icon and only use the hyperlink.

If you have lost data, as we have, vits the folders listed in :\Documents
and Settings\username\Local Settings\Temp\OneNote and search through those
and then save them back to your orginal location.

Hope this is fixed soon - it is HORRIBLE!

 

[Grant Robertson]

Great answer Grant.
Thanks.

DO NOT use the >insert>files option - ever - that puts an icon on the
OneNote page which if clicked on creates all the weirdness you describe below.

Now you are catching on.

Hope this is fixed soon - it is HORRIBLE!

I don't think it ever will be. From the way it has been described to me I
think it is now the central core of how OneNote works. It is the key to
the magic syncing which apparently was highly desired among business
users. I remember writing a long e-mail to Ben Shore (I think it was)
about the importance of synchronizing files between laptop and desktop.
But I certainly didn't expect them to come up with this convoluted way to
solve the problem.

 

[JR]

I can see why you think they won't fix it for the resons of syncing with
regards to one user with a laptop but...

our weirdness is compounded because we have two users teamsharing this data
and if those temp files are on their desktop and they turn theirs off (ie
gone for a couple days) and I access those files on my computer while theiy
are away - rampant cloning of sections/pages files occurs - a real mess to
clean up between two computers.

Since one of the revloutions in OnenOte is the ability for teams to work and
share data in real-time - this really does have to be sorted out.

At the minimum, it needs to create those temporary files in the same place
as the whole OnenOte filing system. for example - all our OneNote files are
on the server for team sharing purposes- having phantom orphan file versions
living on individual computer harddrives is a mess. If eveyone using a
OneNote notebook had their temp fils saved in the same source folder (in our
case a server location), at least we could see where the problems lay if one
team meber was away.

Cheers, Jo

 

[Rainald Taesler]

JR shared these words of wisdom:

our weirdness is compounded because we have two users
teamsharing this data and if those temp files are on their
desktop and they turn theirs off (ie gone for a couple days) and
I access those files on my computer while theiy are away -
rampant cloning of sections/pages files occurs - a real mess to
clean up between two computers.

Maybe I'm a bit naiv:
If the notebooks are sitting on the *server* how and why could a mess
be cerated by the temporary files?

Rainald

 

[Patrick Schmid]

our weirdness is compounded because we have two users teamsharing this
data

and if those temp files are on their desktop and they turn theirs off (ie
gone for a couple days) and I access those files on my computer while theiy
are away - rampant cloning of sections/pages files occurs - a real mess to
clean up between two computers.

Since one of the revloutions in OnenOte is the ability for teams to work and
share data in real-time - this really does have to be sorted out.

At the minimum, it needs to create those temporary files in the same place
as the whole OnenOte filing system. for example - all our OneNote files are
on the server for team sharing purposes- having phantom orphan file versions
living on individual computer harddrives is a mess. If eveyone using a
OneNote notebook had their temp fils saved in the same source folder (in our
case a server location), at least we could see where the problems lay if one
team meber was away.

OneNote 2007 keeps a copy of all embedded files locally on each computer
alongside the big ON cache file that contains a local copy of all opened
notebooks.
Those files have to be local, because ON needs to provide access to them
when not connected to the server. Hence ON also creates the temp files
it makes when opening a file locally.

As has been said before, just don't use the feature in B2 and wait till
it has been fixed in B2TR.

Patrick Schmid

 

[JR]

As has been said before, just don't use the feature in B2 and wait till
Ok, I won't and now don't use the embedded file icon link, but am now
expereienceing the same 'cloning' of sections in those folders created to
'file' things like meetings, webnotes, printouts (see >tools>options>filing
rules>create new notes in the following locations)

For example, the printouts' section tab is one that is cloning, with new
section names of ... Printouts.one (On 19-07-2006).one (On 19-07-2006).
Meetings, contacts, email and webnotes have also cloned twice.

The weirdness continues

 

[Patrick Schmid]

Is the folder where you keep your .one files held offline via Windows
Offline Files on any of your clients? If yes, that would explain your
issues.
If Windows Offline Files are involved in any way, you have to make sure
that Tools, Options, Synchronization, Disable Windows Offline File
caching of OneNote files on servers is CHECKED on every client that uses
Windows Offline Files.. OneNote has its own syncing mechanism that is
independent of Windows Offline Files. Not checking this setting while
keeping a .one file offline via Windows Offline Files is a recipe for
disaster.

Patrick Schmid

 

[JR]

in those folders created to
I am storing all these files on our sever - not my computer, so that should
not be the issue.By the way, where do you access the Windows Offline Files
toolbar?

thanks for your help.

 

[Grant Robertson]

I can see why you think they won't fix it for the resons of syncing with
regards to one user with a laptop but...

If there are bugs in HOW WELL it works I am sure they will work them out.
However, if there are issues with HOW it is designed to work in the first
place then they probably won't be changing that. It would be too huge of
a change at this stage of the process.

our weirdness is compounded because we have two users teamsharing this data
and if those temp files are on their desktop

Which "those temp files" do you mean. The temp files I discussed SHOULD
only exist for the time that you are editing the file after double-
clicking on an icon-link in OneNote 2007. After you exit the external
program and return to OneNote then those temp files SHOULD be copied back
into the cache and then deleted from the temp folder. You may be
confusing the truly temporary copies of the files in the Temp folder with
the copies of the files that are stored with the cache. Or perhaps the
copies of the files that are stored in the actual notebook folder....
That's the big problem. You end up with multiple copies of any file you
icon-link into OneNote spread out all over the place and it is hard for a
novice to keep track of them. Especially since there is NO documentation
about this anywhere.

At the minimum, it needs to create those temporary files in the same place
as the whole OnenOte filing system. for example - all our OneNote files are
on the server for team sharing purposes- having phantom orphan file versions
living on individual computer harddrives is a mess. If eveyone using a
OneNote notebook had their temp fils saved in the same source folder (in our
case a server location), at least we could see where the problems lay if one
team meber was away.

The idea is for everyone to be able to work on the files even if they
aren't connected to the server. Then, when the reconnect, OneNote is
supposed to sort out all the changes and create a new version
incorporating all the changes made all over the place. Some people say it
works marvelously. Obviously it ain't so for you.

I would definitely look into the Offline files but mentioned by Patrick.

 

[Patrick Schmid]

There is no Windows Offline Files toolbar. Go into explorer and see if
there is a small blueish (two small arrows) icons in the bottom left
corner of a .one file. You have to check this on each client as this is
not controlled by the server.
Windows Offline Files might keep a local copy of those files on your
computer. So you are technically accessing it on the server, but with a
local copy. If you disconnect from the server, then you get in real
trouble as long as you don't check the setting I mentioned below.
Basically if you have Windows Offline Files enabled, the following
happens (assuming 1 server and 2 clients, but holding .one files offline
via WOF):
Take one computer offline (meaning disconnect from the server). ON will
think that it is still connected, as it can see the .one files and will
happily write all changes to them. Now you have at the same time the
other client modifying the same files (e.g. by printing something to
ON). When the first computer comes back online, Windows Offline Files
will realize that there are two different versions of the same .one file
now (one on the server, the other one the now reconnected client).
Depending on your settings (group policies), you'll see a window asking
you what to do with this conflict, or it will just resolve the conflict
automatically by keeping both versions. Hence you get duplication.
If Windows Offline Files is disabled via the setting in OneNote, OneNote
will realize that it was disconnected and keep all changes in its cache
while the second client's changes will be reflected in the server's .one
files. When the first client comes online again, ON will synch the cache
with the .one files and this is not a file-level synch, but a very
detailed synch down to individual items on a page. It will merge the
changes from the cache into the .one files, and the changes from the
..one files into the cache of the first client. Hence, no duplication.

Patrick Schmid

 

[JR]

There is no Windows Offline Files toolbar. Go into explorer and see if

there is a small blueish (two small arrows) icons in the bottom left
corner of a .one file. You have to check this on each client as this is
not controlled by the server.

I really could not find any bluish thingsys, but I did go to OneNote

tools>options>synchronisation and there is a checkbox that asks if you want

to
'disable windows offline file caching'. Is this to which you refer? Should
I tick that box and my problems will go away?

Thank you for all your time and effort in explaining this. I think I am
getting it.

Also thank you for the info on how to go back to 2003. We were in a quandry
as to how to best do that.

We are in two minds about going back - we are at the end of a project and
are using OnenOte to rather dynamically move pages/sections and folders
around to get them in the correct place to produce our Outputs. We found it
impossible to do this and give sharing permissions in 2003 - ergo our upgrade
to 2007. Sigh.

 

[Patrick Schmid]

I really could not find any bluish thingsys, but I did go to OneNote

to
'disable windows offline file caching'. Is this to which you refer? Should
I tick that box and my problems will go away?

You should most definitely tick that box on *ALL* your copies of OneNote
2007 on *ALL* your computers. It requires a reboot after you tick it.
I can't guarantee that all your problems will go away, but the
duplication issue sounds to me like at least one of your clients has
Windows Offline Files activated (you really would have to check on all
clients). It's really the only thing I can think of that could cause
this rampant duplication (without any error messages stating corruption
of sections etc).
I actually opened a bug with Microsoft to request that this box is
checked by default.

We are in two minds about going back - we are at the end of a project and
are using OnenOte to rather dynamically move pages/sections and folders
around to get them in the correct place to produce our Outputs. We found it
impossible to do this and give sharing permissions in 2003 - ergo our upgrade
to 2007. Sigh.

I see.

Patrick Schmid[/QUOTE]