Changing a large number of styles

[Jeff Wiseman]

Am I missing something or is this a bigger nuisance than it seems?

I create a new document from a corporate template in order to get
the predefined styles and document cover pages/layout, etc. I now
need to take a large number of pages from another document and
copy/paste them into the new one. All of the styles in the
document being copied from have the same names as the new
document but I want the imported styles to take on the attributes
of the new document's styles (i.e., the one created from the
template)

If I do a paste special without formatting I lose all of the
style names so that isn't so good.

If I do a regular paste, the pasted styles all act as though they
have local definitions (also all those nasty number list
templates come across as well--yuk!)

In order to guarantee that all of the imported paragraph styles
match those of the new document, I have to go through and for
each paragraph in the document, select it and reapply its style
name, thus updating it.

In several other word processing tools I've used, all I would
ever need to do in this case is to do a "select all styles of
name <xyz>" and then reapply the <xyz> style to update them. If
there were 6-10 styles in total covering 100 pages, the entire
document could be updated in a minute or two. However, I've not
figured out how to do this in Word so it is taking me hours.

This type of operation should be extremely easy. What am I
missing? How can I update all paragraphs of a given style in a
document at the same time?

Note that I am not only using Office 2004 on the Mac but also
Word 2000 on Windows 2000. Most of my work is on the latter.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Hi Jeff,

What do you mean by local definitions? I feel like a regular paste ought to
make the text take on the attributes defined in the corporate template's
doc, just as you want--but yes, it works very oddly. All my headings
converted correctly, but my Normal text and everything based on it stayed 10
point. I think because it's a different template, seems like pasting
between documents based on Normal works differently.

Anyhow, it's easy enough to force it. After pasting the text (regular
paste), go to Tools | Templates and Add-ins, check the box for
"automatically update document styles", make sure the right template is
listed, and click OK. Here that forced a fix.

However, you'll want to uncheck that box after doing the fix, as you don't
want to send the doc out and have it update to someone else's "Corporate
Template".

I'm fairly sure that process can be turned into a macro for one-click--maybe
a second macro to uncheck the box.

However, I really don't know anything about list number templates. I skimmed
some research and it sounds like this can get tricky when there's
numbering--you may want to read over:

http://shaunakelly.com/word/attachtemplate/index.html

http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/MacrosVBA/UpdateStyles.htm
(hit reload a few times in Safari, or use a different browser)

Daiya

 

[Jeff Wiseman]

Hi Jeff,

What do you mean by local definitions? I feel like a regular paste ought to
make the text take on the attributes defined in the corporate template's
doc, just as you want--but yes, it works very oddly. All my headings
converted correctly, but my Normal text and everything based on it stayed 10
point. I think because it's a different template, seems like pasting
between documents based on Normal works differently.

By "local" I meant to say "directly formatted". When I paste all
of the styled paragraphs into my new document, the formatting of
those paragraphs (and some things in them) don't seem to change.
They are close but not the same so I have to go through and for
each style of "xyz" I have to select it and "change" it to style
"xyz". When I do this you can see the paragraph layout change for
each paragraph I do this with.

Note that this might only be related to the number list templates
associated with those paragraphs. In addition to Heading styles,
there is usually only 2 or three other styles in the imported
document. So far I only REMEMBER seeing the numbering and
indentation settings (also controlled by the number lists) change
when reapplying styles. E.g., in the last document I imported I
had to go through and reapply the styles to all the paragraphs
that were of type Heading 4, Heading 5, and Heading 6.

In any event, if I DO NOT go through and reapply the styles to
all those paragraphs, they will all act like they were directly
formatted and will be inconsistent throughout the document.

Anyhow, it's easy enough to force it. After pasting the text (regular
paste), go to Tools | Templates and Add-ins, check the box for
"automatically update document styles", make sure the right template is
listed, and click OK. Here that forced a fix.

There's a problem with that. Unfortunately the creators of the
template have used a couple of styles (e.g., Normal and Body
Text) extensively in the layout of the headers, footers, cover
and title pages with massive direct formatting changes in each
location. Doing as you suggest will destroy the entire front and
auxiliary matter of the document that is based on the template,
eliminating most of the benefits of using the template in the
first place.

Also, I remember recently reading somewhere about autonumbering
that the use of that "automatically update document styles"
function has been known to corrupt the gallery offsets for the
various number list templates in a given document. Not good.

The problem is that resetting every single style in the document
at one time is not useful for this (and can corrupt number
lists), and resetting ALMOST every single paragraph's style in
the document takes hours. The problem is that I need to be able
to either select a single style document wide for updating, or
have the ability to select a series of non-contiguous paragraphs
document wide and update them all to a given style in a single
operation (the way you can do it in Interleaf or Framemaker,
etc.). The "all or nothing" approach that Word seems to have
(unless I'm missing something) is pretty useless for most of my
applications like this.

However, you'll want to uncheck that box after doing the fix, as you don't
want to send the doc out and have it update to someone else's "Corporate
Template".

Understood.


I'm fairly sure that process can be turned into a macro for one-click--maybe
a second macro to uncheck the box.

However, I really don't know anything about list number templates. I skimmed
some research and it sounds like this can get tricky when there's
numbering--you may want to read over:

http://shaunakelly.com/word/attachtemplate/index.html

http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/MacrosVBA/UpdateStyles.htm
(hit reload a few times in Safari, or use a different browser)

Daiya

The only other thing that I can think of that is causing this may
be the issue of those styles I'm having problems with maybe not
being in the "styles in use" list of the new document before I
import them from another. The second reference that you gave
above does refer to something like this. Perhaps by using each of
the styles in a dummy paragraph prior to importing the document
body from elsewhere might force the incoming paragraphs to match
the styles of the document that they are being imported to?

Since I work for a government contractor, their firewalls won't
give me access to these groups from work, and when I'm at home
here and can get onto the groups, I don't have access to my work
documents to use for reference on these issues, so I cannot
verify this at the moment.

In any event, being forced to only be able to select a contiguous
set of paragraphs for style updating at any given time is very
annoying and (in my case) extremely time consuming.

- Jeff

 

[Clive Huggan]

Inline.

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from the US and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================

By "local" I meant to say "directly formatted". When I paste all
of the styled paragraphs into my new document, the formatting of
those paragraphs (and some things in them) don't seem to change.
They are close but not the same so I have to go through and for
each style of "xyz" I have to select it and "change" it to style
"xyz". When I do this you can see the paragraph layout change for
each paragraph I do this with.

Jeff,

I have only been distantly watching this thread, since Daiya is working
closely with you on your problem. But as an aside, it might be useful to
know that to restore selected text (therefore, your pasted-in text) to the
characteristics of the underlying styles you only need to key
Command-Option-q.

CH
==

 

[Jeff Wiseman]

<snip>

Okay, well, try this on a copy--no time to test it just now, and in fact, I
just skimmed your post and will re-read it later to see if I have more
comments.

Do a Find for all text in the style. Check the box in the Find dialog to
highlight or select all found instances. That ought to select all text in
that style. Then manually apply the style to the selected text. Not sure
whether searching just inside a selection will work, but try it.

Be careful when clicking away from the Find dialog and into the document so
that you don't unselect everything.

Repeat for other styles.

Interesting. As I was about to try this out, I discovered that in
Word 2004 mac I can do a search for format=style and then do a
replace all with format=style using the same style name which
seems to work. Next I'll try it at work in Word 2000 on my PC
there and see if it has those same capabilities.

It is also possible to hold down control and click for noncontiguous
selection.

I know that you can do this with the command key on the Mac but
it seems to me that when I tried it on the PC (Word 2000) it
didn't seem to work right, otherwise I would not have had a
problem. I'll try it again but it seems to me that there was a
problem with setting up non contiguous selections like that.

 

[Jeff Wiseman]

I have only been distantly watching this thread, since Daiya is working
closely with you on your problem. But as an aside, it might be useful to
know that to restore selected text (therefore, your pasted-in text) to the
characteristics of the underlying styles you only need to key
Command-Option-q.

CH

That looks real useful. Does it work only on the selected text or
the whole document?

Also would you happen to know the equivalent on a PC with Word 2000?

 

[Clive Huggan]

That looks real useful. Does it work only on the selected text or
the whole document?

Also would you happen to know the equivalent on a PC with Word 2000?

Jeff,

More accurately I should have said "to restore selected text (therefore,
your pasted-in text) to the characteristics of the underlying PARAGRAPH
styles...". (As distinct from the CHARACTER styles, which are restored to
those of the font of the underlying paragraph style by selecting the
particular text and keying Control-Spacebar (PC and Mac). This latter action
removes italicizing etc, of course. But we aren't talking about that, so
I'll stop my digressing.)

To answer your first question: to restore the whole document to the
characteristics of the underlying paragraph styles you would simply key
Command-a first (Ctrl-a on the PC), which selects the whole document. If you
don't select anything, it will act only on the paragraph in which you have
placed the insertion point.

Second: The equivalent of Command-Option-q on the PC is Control-q.

Cheers,


Clive Huggan
============

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Interesting. As I was about to try this out, I discovered that in

Word 2004 mac I can do a search for format=style and then do a
replace all with format=style using the same style name which
seems to work. Next I'll try it at work in Word 2000 on my PC
there and see if it has those same capabilities.

Interesting. I actually tried that first in my doc and it didn't work to
update the style. But my test doc seems to be behaving somewhat differently
from yours, even though MacWord 2004.

New info:
To test your problem, I've been copying a syllabus (based on a syllabus
template) into a new doc based on Normal. I've been finding that the
headings converted fine, but Normal and everything based on it stayed 10pt
instead of the 12pt defined in the normal template. However, reapplying
Normal doesn't force it to update here.

I just unchecked a box called "smart style behavior" in Word | Preferences |
Edit, next to "smart cut and paste" there is a Settings button.

Now when I paste, Normal text picks up the 12pt. But all the styles based on
Normal, which don't exist in the regular template, only in the syllabus,
remain the same.

Same result when I uncheck "smart cut and paste" entirely. You might mess
about with that setting.

I know that you can do this with the command key on the Mac

I meant to type "command". I was certainly thinking of the apple key.

but
it seems to me that when I tried it on the PC (Word 2000) it
didn't seem to work right, otherwise I would not have had a
problem. I'll try it again but it seems to me that there was a
problem with setting up non contiguous selections like that.

Noncontiguous selection might be a later feature. Certainly, using the
Formatting Palette to select all text of a certain style/formatting is not
available in Word 2000. But I think advanced F&R features (be sure to click
More to expand the dialog) should be in there, I remember them in Word 2001
and it's pretty much the same feature set at Word 2000 (I think). Not sure
about "smart cut and paste".

I re-read your long post and have nothing to add. It's possible that
updating a single style might be accessible via a macro, but I don't know.
But I asked some other people, we'll see if anything comes back.

Daiya

 

[Clive Huggan]

On 17/1/06 6:28 PM, in article BFF1DC99.5BD85%[email protected],

To test your problem, I've been copying a syllabus (based on a syllabus
template) into a new doc based on Normal.

<snip>

Is that a document based on the Normal template, Daiya, or a document
containing styles based on Normal style? I'm interested because if the
latter, it updates the reasons for continuing my longstanding preference not
to base my styles on Normal style ­ for many reasons, but including
transferring text from one document to another.

Cheers,
Clive
=======

 

[Jeff Wiseman]

Interesting. I actually tried that first in my doc and it didn't work to
update the style. But my test doc seems to be behaving somewhat differently
from yours, even though MacWord 2004.

New info:
To test your problem, I've been copying a syllabus (based on a syllabus
template) into a new doc based on Normal. I've been finding that the
headings converted fine, but Normal and everything based on it stayed 10pt
instead of the 12pt defined in the normal template. However, reapplying
Normal doesn't force it to update here.

I just unchecked a box called "smart style behavior" in Word | Preferences |
Edit, next to "smart cut and paste" there is a Settings button.

Now when I paste, Normal text picks up the 12pt. But all the styles based on
Normal, which don't exist in the regular template, only in the syllabus,
remain the same.

Same result when I uncheck "smart cut and paste" entirely. You might mess
about with that setting.

I discovered that doing a find style=xyz and replace with
style=xyz is NOT the same as manually selecting the style you
want in the styles colum and then changing it to itself from the
format toolbar. For some reason the latter works where the former
seems to miss any direct formatting of the text in the paragraph.
My guess is that when you select the style in the styles colum,
the entire text of the paragraph is selected. A Find may not do
this exactly the same.

Note that if you do a find paragraph style=xyz and replace all
with paragraph style=xyz, you can then do a find paragraph
style=xyz and replace all with character style=default paragraph
font. This second operation seems to catch all the direct
formatted character attributes

The documents I'm using have the heading and body styles that are
not based on Normal so I'm not seeing any of those issues that
you have mentioned.

Note that the main problem I am having DOES happen with numbered
Headings. The tab/indent settings (between the number and the
heading text) is changing when I manually update the style. Since
that spacing is not actually controlled by the paragraph style
but rather the autonumber list template that that paragraph style
points to, my guess is that when the headings are copied in, they
are bringing with them their own number list template that is
different from the one referenced by the style in the document
they are being copied to. When I do the style update on the
paragraph, it relinks the paragraph to the correct number list
template thus correcting the indentation after the autonumber.
Note that the technique of doing the find and replace all on the
paragraph style with the same paragraph style seems to catch this
ok. The problem is if there was a directly formatted font change
in the heading text (e.g., and underline). This find/replace
doesn't catch that where a manual select and reset to the same
style DOES. If I use the find/replace all then I have to follow
it with the Find paragraph style=xyz and replace all with the
character style=default paragraph font. That seems to work but as
usual my confidence in having EVERYTHING updated isn't too good
at this point.

I meant to type "command". I was certainly thinking of the apple key.



Noncontiguous selection might be a later feature. Certainly, using the
Formatting Palette to select all text of a certain style/formatting is not
available in Word 2000. But I think advanced F&R features (be sure to click
More to expand the dialog) should be in there, I remember them in Word 2001
and it's pretty much the same feature set at Word 2000 (I think). Not sure
about "smart cut and paste".

I checked it and the non-contiguous selection using the control
key does not work in Word 2000 (in fact, I'm not sure exactly
WHAT it does

The F&R characteristics and tricks that I've been talking about
work on 2000 on the PC. In fact that is the only product I've
checked it on so far. I'm hoping that it behaves the same on 2004
for Mac.

I re-read your long post and have nothing to add. It's possible that
updating a single style might be accessible via a macro, but I don't know.
But I asked some other people, we'll see if anything comes back.

Bottom line is it is no where near as easy as the style handling
mechanisms of either Framemaker or Interleaf so from my long
years of using those products in a style based environment, I'm a
little spoiled

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

On 17/1/06 6:28 PM


<snip>

Is that a document based on the Normal template, Daiya, or a document
containing styles based on Normal style? I'm interested because if the
latter, it updates the reasons for continuing my longstanding preference not
to base my styles on Normal style ­ for many reasons, but including
transferring text from one document to another.

Yeah....I'm really close to deciding my test is acting funky and
misbehaving.

I open up a syllabus (based on SyllabusTemplate). It has about 12
styles‹say 5 heading styles, plus Normal, plus 3 custom styles based on
Normal. When I paste it into a new blank default doc, all the heading
styles change fine, but the Normal and Normal-based on don't change.

Daiya

 

[Clive Huggan]

Yeah....I'm really close to deciding my test is acting funky and
misbehaving.

I open up a syllabus (based on SyllabusTemplate). It has about 12
styles‹say 5 heading styles, plus Normal, plus 3 custom styles based on
Normal. When I paste it into a new blank default doc, all the heading
styles change fine, but the Normal and Normal-based on don't change.

Daiya

Thanks, Daiya!

Clive
======

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Hi Jeff,

1) The Word MVPs suggest that typing some dummy text in the final document
first, in the appropriate styles, should work to force the pasted text to
take on the new style definitions. You mentioned that trick before, but not
whether you ever tried it. Does it work?

2) Did Word 2000 let you do the "select all found text" so that you can use
Find to easily get a non-contiguous selection and then manually re-apply the
style? You didn't say.

3) You can also bring up the Organizer (Tools | Macro | Organizer), and
copying the styles from the base template to the document should update only
selected styles that you actually copy. (I think that's the tool you were
originally asking for, to update selected styles--sorry for forgetting about
it)

I think I have heard something about copying three times in the Organizer to
sort out list number issues (which I know nothing about). Maybe the third
time it also copies the list template? I'm not sure where the reference to
that is, maybe the second article I linked before.

Daiya


On 1/17/06 8:34 PM, "Jeff Wiseman" wrote:

 

[Jeff Wiseman]

Hi Jeff,

1) The Word MVPs suggest that typing some dummy text in the final document
first, in the appropriate styles, should work to force the pasted text to
take on the new style definitions. You mentioned that trick before, but not
whether you ever tried it. Does it work?

I've not tried it yet but it sounds plausible based on some other
things I've read. It seems that a style has to be declared
internally as "In Use" in order for some style controls to work
consistently.

2) Did Word 2000 let you do the "select all found text" so that you can use
Find to easily get a non-contiguous selection and then manually re-apply the
style? You didn't say.

What I did was a find where I did NOT enter any text but rather
went down to the format menu and selected "Style". I then
selected the Style type that I wanted (e.g. "Heading 3"). Then I
went to the Replace screen and did the same thing (i.e., no text,
format=style and the same style type (e.g., "Heading 3") and then
performed a replace all. This updated the paragraph but not any
directly formated text in the paragraph. I tried this in Word
2004 and the behaviour was the same.

Initially I didn't understand your question here but after
looking at Word 2004 I see how you can create the non contiguous
selection using the "Find All" capability. I tried it in 2004 and
it actually seemed to cover everything when I applied the same
style to update it! (Probably again, because the text is actually
selected when you do the separate find all). I'll try this on
Word 2000 next time I get the chance but it looks like this may
work ok.

3) You can also bring up the Organizer (Tools | Macro | Organizer), and
copying the styles from the base template to the document should update only
selected styles that you actually copy. (I think that's the tool you were
originally asking for, to update selected styles--sorry for forgetting about
it)

Again, I think that that operation is the one that can corrupt
the number list templates in the galleries, Secondly, what I've
been calling a "template" is really stationary, i.e., you make a
copy of the original and then add what you want to the copy (the
"template" is a .doc file).

The Style "standards" are the definitions that are ALREADY in the
destination document (i.e., the one that was copied from the
"template").

I think I have heard something about copying three times in the Organizer to
sort out list number issues (which I know nothing about). Maybe the third
time it also copies the list template? I'm not sure where the reference to
that is, maybe the second article I linked before.

The issue about styles needing to be marked as "In Use" seems to
be related to successful use of the organizer as well--in fact, I
think that was where I originally came across this issue in my
readings (somewhere on the MVP's website).


The issue of applying a change to all paragraphs of the same
style except a few in the document is still a bit of an issue
since even with the Find All since in Word 2000 I can't de-select
the few non-contiguous paragraphs I don't want changed. So for
now, I just rename those paragraphs to have a new style name so
they aren't impacted by the global changes made after the imports.

I'm thinking more and more that I should get IT to update my PC
to use Windows XP and a much newer version of Office/Word anyway.
That may solve some other problems as well. I've already run into
issues where certain macros on some company spreadsheets won't
work with the version of Excel on this machine.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Hi Jeff,

Well, post back when you've tried 1) and 2).

And here's a 4) did you try experimenting with the "smart cut and paste"
settings, which I found caused pastes to behave differently?

Again, I think that that operation is the one that can corrupt
the number list templates in the galleries,

Re 3), I think you should re-read this article as it discusses the problem
of updating styles without having the list templates corrupt:
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/MacrosVBA/UpdateStyles.htm
(hit reload a few times in Safari, or use a different browser)

Also, copying 3 times in the Organizer is (as I vaguely remember) supposed
to prevent the problems--yes, there are problems, and that's the fix, as I
understood it. Though I may be wrong.

You might want to work your way through "Word's Numbering Explained" as I
think that also discusses the issue. I can't find anywhere else these vague
references might have come from.
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm
(hit reload a few times in Safari, or use a different browser)

The Style "standards" are the definitions that are ALREADY in the
destination document (i.e., the one that was copied from the
"template").

Yes, I know. Why do you mention this?

Secondly, what I've
been calling a "template" is really stationary, i.e., you make a
copy of the original and then add what you want to the copy (the
"template" is a .doc file).

Hmm. I don't know what that does to this process, but it probably screws it
up. That may have something to do with the original problem.

So are the style standards only defined in the stationery (based on Normal),
or is the stationery based on a different template that has the style
definitions in it? Situation 1 sounds problematic to me. Situation 2 less
so.

The issue of applying a change to all paragraphs of the same
style except a few in the document is still a bit of an issue
since even with the Find All since in Word 2000 I can't de-select
the few non-contiguous paragraphs I don't want changed. So for
now, I just rename those paragraphs to have a new style name so
they aren't impacted by the global changes made after the imports.

Well, the whole point of styles is that ALL text in the same style should be
the SAME. So, yeah, if you don't want it all changed, you should give those
paragraphs a new style.

I'm thinking more and more that I should get IT to update my PC
to use Windows XP and a much newer version of Office/Word anyway.
That may solve some other problems as well. I've already run into
issues where certain macros on some company spreadsheets won't
work with the version of Excel on this machine.

On general principle, never pay money in vague hopes it will fix a problem.
E.g., as far as I know, Office 2000 forward all use VBA 6, while Office 97
used VBA 5. So the Excel macro problems might have some other cause.

 

[Jeff Wiseman]

Hi Jeff,

Well, post back when you've tried 1) and 2).

Rats! Now I can't seem to reproduce it anymore. Oh well...

And here's a 4) did you try experimenting with the "smart cut and paste"
settings, which I found caused pastes to behave differently?

No I didn't. In general, anything that Microsoft refers to as
"smart" tends to be very suspicious to me and will immediately
get turned off (since "smart" usually means that unless you have
been actively using the feature for the last 4 years, it's gonna
do something to surprise and confuse you

Also, copying 3 times in the Organizer is (as I vaguely remember) supposed
to prevent the problems--yes, there are problems, and that's the fix, as I
understood it. Though I may be wrong.

THAT one should be easy to remember. I'll try it next time around.

You might want to work your way through "Word's Numbering Explained" as I
think that also discusses the issue. I can't find anywhere else these vague
references might have come from.
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Numbering/WordsNumberingExplained.htm

That may very well be where I've seen it. I have already read
through most of those MVP articles on numbering--good (but scary)
information.

Yes, I know. Why do you mention this?

You had referred to an "attached template" in your note and I
just wanted to make it clear that I wasn't using a true template
here.

Hmm. I don't know what that does to this process, but it probably screws it
up. That may have something to do with the original problem.

So are the style standards only defined in the stationery (based on Normal),
or is the stationery based on a different template that has the style
definitions in it? Situation 1 sounds problematic to me. Situation 2 less
so.

They were based on a custom style called "paragraph" that existed
in the stationary although the original ones being imported where
originally based on Normal in their original document.

On general principle, never pay money in vague hopes it will fix a problem.
E.g., as far as I know, Office 2000 forward all use VBA 6, while Office 97
used VBA 5. So the Excel macro problems might have some other cause.

Well, it's not really the money as the IT department would just
upgrade it. The spreadsheets in question specifically had
comments that they would not work correctly with the earlier
Excel. Probably well over half the folks here are using XP, I
think that when I started here I just got a PC that had belonged
to someone who had recently quit who had been around a while.

All in all though, I now have a partial solution using the find
style (Word 2000 doesn't have the "find all" capability though, I
checked it the other day so the "replace all" approach would need
to be used). That will do for now.

- Jeff

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Jeff:

Command + Option + Q; Command + SpaceBar...

Let me explain

When you copy styled text from another document, Word compares the
definitions of the styles between the documents. If they are different, (or
if the source document contains direct formatting) Word adds the difference
as direct formatting.

To remove the direct formatting, paste into your destination document, then
select what you just pasted and hit Command + Option + Q; and then Command +
SpaceBar. This reverts the selection to the formatting of the underlying
styles.

To remove the style as well, use Edit>Clear>Clear Formatting. That strips
all formatting from the selection and reverts it back to "Normal Style".

And yes, you may be missing something:

In Word>Preferences>Edit there's a "Show Paste Options" checkbox. If that
is checked, each time you paste, Word will ask you if you want to preserve
the source document's formatting or adopt the formatting of the destination
document.

If you turn that on, Word will prompt you on EVERY paste. I've become used
to it and leave it on, but if it annoys you, turn it off again and remember
Command + Option + Q; Command + SpaceBar so you can quickly remove the
source formatting when you wish to.

Cheers

Am I missing something or is this a bigger nuisance than it seems?

I create a new document from a corporate template in order to get
the predefined styles and document cover pages/layout, etc. I now
need to take a large number of pages from another document and
copy/paste them into the new one. All of the styles in the
document being copied from have the same names as the new
document but I want the imported styles to take on the attributes
of the new document's styles (i.e., the one created from the
template)

If I do a paste special without formatting I lose all of the
style names so that isn't so good.

If I do a regular paste, the pasted styles all act as though they
have local definitions (also all those nasty number list
templates come across as well--yuk!)

In order to guarantee that all of the imported paragraph styles
match those of the new document, I have to go through and for
each paragraph in the document, select it and reapply its style
name, thus updating it.

In several other word processing tools I've used, all I would
ever need to do in this case is to do a "select all styles of
name <xyz>" and then reapply the <xyz> style to update them. If
there were 6-10 styles in total covering 100 pages, the entire
document could be updated in a minute or two. However, I've not
figured out how to do this in Word so it is taking me hours.

This type of operation should be extremely easy. What am I
missing? How can I update all paragraphs of a given style in a
document at the same time?

Note that I am not only using Office 2004 on the Mac but also
Word 2000 on Windows 2000. Most of my work is on the latter.

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[Clive Huggan]

Reverting to the underlying character style of the paragraph is
Control-Spacebar, not Command-Spacebar, John.

[Thinks: gadzooks, I spent all of 2002-03 gently interjecting that the
Command-Option-q keyboard shortcut wasn't C... ­ no, I won't say what the PC
command is; it will start you off again!]

And an equally cordial "welcome back" from your Big Adventure to Arctic
places. May you thaw out soon!

Cheers,

Clive

=======

 

[Jeff Wiseman]

Hi Jeff:

Command + Option + Q; Command + SpaceBar...

Let me explain

When you copy styled text from another document, Word compares the
definitions of the styles between the documents. If they are different, (or
if the source document contains direct formatting) Word adds the difference
as direct formatting.

OK that was as I assumed

To remove the direct formatting, paste into your destination document, then
select what you just pasted and hit Command + Option + Q; and then Command +
SpaceBar. This reverts the selection to the formatting of the underlying
styles.

I was just selecting the style from the format toolbar but that
was the one that wasn't working as expected.

To remove the style as well, use Edit>Clear>Clear Formatting. That strips
all formatting from the selection and reverts it back to "Normal Style".

I assume that this is only the case if the Normal template has
that style defined in it already?

And yes, you may be missing something:

In Word>Preferences>Edit there's a "Show Paste Options" checkbox. If that
is checked, each time you paste, Word will ask you if you want to preserve
the source document's formatting or adopt the formatting of the destination
document.

If you turn that on, Word will prompt you on EVERY paste. I've become used
to it and leave it on, but if it annoys you, turn it off again and remember
Command + Option + Q; Command + SpaceBar so you can quickly remove the
source formatting when you wish to.

This looks like an interesting feature. I'm going to turn it on
at work and see if it ends up helping there.

Thanks!

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Jeff:

I was just selecting the style from the format toolbar but that
was the one that wasn't working as expected.

That changes the style of the underlying paragraph. If the style is the
only formatting present, that will change the resulting format of the text.
However, many inexperienced users, particularly in corporations, have no
idea of styles. They format the entire document with direct formatting:
instead of consistent named collections of formatting (i.e. "Styles") they
format their documents by applying dozens of individual formatting
properties to each piece of text.

This formatting is applied over the top of the style formatting. You have
to either correct it the same way they applied it, one individual property
at a time for each run of text (e.g. A sentence or a paragraph), or you have
to remove the direct formatting so that you can efficiently repaire the mess
they have made.

I assume that this is only the case if the Normal template has
that style defined in it already?

Come on Jeff, you're only half awake -- give you a holiday and look what
happens -- brain's out of service when you return. You know the answer
to that just as well as I do

Normal is the "Default formatting". It could just as easily be named "Style
0" or "Undefined". In fact, "Undefined" is closer to what it means. The
point is that neither a template nor a document can exist without it.

Formatting (ALL formatting, whether direct or styled) in a Word document
actually exists as a series of styles: collections of formatting. These
styles are stored in a table beneath the last paragraph mark in the
document: one row per style, one column per formatting property.

Normal style is the first row in that table. If it weren't there, the file
you are looking at would not be a Word document or a template, it would be a
binary blob.

If all of the columns in that first row are set to "0", Normal style has
Times New Roman regular 12 point with zero indents and zero spacing on a
line height of 120 per cent. These defaults are what Word produces unless
the properties are otherwise defined.

Cheers

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Consultant Technical Writer
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410