[Cmd +] on non-english keyboards ?!

[Mitrokhin]

[this was supposed to have been posted in here and not in MPMO
so I'm posting it again srry]

Hi

When I first wanted to insert soft/hard hyphens & dash'es I was forced
to locate the dash character via the Keyboardlayout viewer (or whatever
the precise name is in english) using an english keyboardlayout since
they seem to be hardcoded to use said keyboardtype or whatever.
Cmd + - activates Word help and sure enough thats where the "/" is in
the keyboardlayout I checked out, likewise the dash character is beside
the numbers in the top row of the keyboard, ie NOT where it's
supposed to be (although others may think otherwise

Now my question is what's the technical reason for this, does anybody
know ? and how do other ppl in my situation cope with this problem...
On the top of my head I was thinking about maybe trying to hook up
the proper keys via applescript, provided that is possible at all ?



Btw my fellow scandinavian cited below first (that I know of) reported
on this annoying problem:


=================================================
Subject: Icelandic keyboard not used for Command + shortcuts
From: (e-mail address removed)
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.mac.office.word
Date: tor 21. feb 2008 1:25
Message-ID: <[email protected]>

E.g. In the Icelandic keyboard the - is top far rigth. The next key to
the left of it being ö.
However if I want to insert an optional hypghen the combination should
be command + -, but it turns out to be command + ö. Actually Word
claims that command + - is command + = and returns formatting
subscript.
This is a new bug in Word 2008. I reckon that the same goes for
keyboards in other languages.
=================================================

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

What happens if you go to Tools | Customize Keyboard, select Common
Symbols at the bottom of the left column, and use that dialog to set new
shortcut keys for the optional hyphens, etc, that you need?

 

[Mitrokhin]

i microsoft.public.mac.office.word skrev Daiya Mitchell
fredag 6. juni 2008 20:30:01 (0400), i en artikel med
ID <[email protected]>
og titlen "Re: [Cmd +] on non-english keyboards ?!", følgende:

: What happens if you go to Tools | Customize Keyboard, select Common
: Symbols at the bottom of the left column, and use that dialog to set new
: shortcut keys for the optional hyphens, etc, that you need?
:

Does not work unfortunately. Pressing [Cmd + -] produces [Cmd + /]
and so on. I didn't have these kind of troubles using Word 2004 in
Panther (I skipped Tiger) and coupled with the fact that certain
addons in System preferences exhibit the same behavour I suspect
it could be a leopard problem, but to be honest I can't quite seem to
wrap my head around this... Anyway thanks for the suggestion dear



:
: Mitrokhin wrote:
: > [this was supposed to have been posted in here and not in MPMO
: > so I'm posting it again srry]
: >
: > Hi
: >
: > When I first wanted to insert soft/hard hyphens & dash'es I was forced
: > to locate the dash character via the Keyboardlayout viewer (or whatever
: > the precise name is in english) using an english keyboardlayout since
: > they seem to be hardcoded to use said keyboardtype or whatever.
: > Cmd + - activates Word help and sure enough thats where the "/" is in
: > the keyboardlayout I checked out, likewise the dash character is beside
: > the numbers in the top row of the keyboard, ie NOT where it's
: > supposed to be (although others may think otherwise
: >
: > Now my question is what's the technical reason for this, does anybody
: > know ? and how do other ppl in my situation cope with this problem...
: > On the top of my head I was thinking about maybe trying to hook up
: > the proper keys via applescript, provided that is possible at all ?
: >

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

: What happens if you go to Tools | Customize Keyboard, select Common
: Symbols at the bottom of the left column, and use that dialog to set new
: shortcut keys for the optional hyphens, etc, that you need?
:

Does not work unfortunately. Pressing [Cmd + -] produces [Cmd + /]
and so on.

Did you test using it after assigning it? I mean, if you enter [Cmd +
-] as a shortcut and Word reads it as [Cmd + /] and assigns that
instead, it shouldn't really matter as long as the next time you hit
[Cmd + -], Word continues to read it as the keyboard combo that creates
an optional hyphen (or whatever). The wrongs should cancel each other
out. I'm hoping Word's craziness can be moved to the background and stop
affecting your work.

I assume that currently you are using Insert | Symbol to enter an
optional hyphen?

Another possibility--enter an optional hyphen the long way (via Insert |
Symbol). Hit ¶ to show nonprinting characters. Now select the optional
hyphen, and bring up Tools | AutoCorrect. Hit the Formatted Text button,
and enter something crazy that you won't ordinarily type. Now you've got
an AutoCorrect for an optional hyphen--unfortunately, you have to type
the something crazy (e.g. &&) and hit space afterwards to get it to
autocorrect, then you'll have to backspace the space away. Not sure that
is much quicker.

I didn't have these kind of troubles using Word 2004 in
Panther (I skipped Tiger) and coupled with the fact that certain
addons in System preferences exhibit the same behavour I suspect
it could be a leopard problem, but to be honest I can't quite seem to
wrap my head around this... Anyway thanks for the suggestion dear

Well, Leopard certainly has bugs, but Word 2008 also has bugs, and
definitely has new bugs related to using non-US keyboard layouts that
Word 2004 didn't have. You've probably run into one. Please use Help |
Send Feedback in Word to report this to MS, in as much detail as possible.

Daiya

:
: Mitrokhin wrote:
: > [this was supposed to have been posted in here and not in MPMO
: > so I'm posting it again srry]
: >
: > Hi
: >
: > When I first wanted to insert soft/hard hyphens & dash'es I was forced
: > to locate the dash character via the Keyboardlayout viewer (or whatever
: > the precise name is in english) using an english keyboardlayout since
: > they seem to be hardcoded to use said keyboardtype or whatever.
: > Cmd + - activates Word help and sure enough thats where the "/" is in
: > the keyboardlayout I checked out, likewise the dash character is beside
: > the numbers in the top row of the keyboard, ie NOT where it's
: > supposed to be (although others may think otherwise
: >
: > Now my question is what's the technical reason for this, does anybody
: > know ? and how do other ppl in my situation cope with this problem...
: > On the top of my head I was thinking about maybe trying to hook up
: > the proper keys via applescript, provided that is possible at all ?
: >

 

[CyberTaz]

I'm not at all authoritative on the issue, but since you make no mention of
it I just thought I'd throw this up for consideration: Have you investigated
working through Apple Menu> System Preferences> International - Input Menu
to select the appropriate keyboard layout & shortcuts there?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Mitrokhin]

i microsoft.public.mac.office.word skrev Daiya Mitchell
søndag 8. juni 2008 11:18:53 (0400), i en artikel med
ID <[email protected]>
og titlen "Re: [Cmd +] on non-english keyboards ?!", følgende:

: > : What happens if you go to Tools | Customize Keyboard, select Common
: > : Symbols at the bottom of the left column, and use that dialog to set new
: > : shortcut keys for the optional hyphens, etc, that you need?
: > :
: >
: > Does not work unfortunately. Pressing [Cmd + -] produces [Cmd + /]
: > and so on.
:
: Did you test using it after assigning it? I mean, if you enter [Cmd +
: -] as a shortcut and Word reads it as [Cmd + /] and assigns that
: instead, it shouldn't really matter as long as the next time you hit
: [Cmd + -], Word continues to read it as the keyboard combo that creates
: an optional hyphen (or whatever). The wrongs should cancel each other
: out. I'm hoping Word's craziness can be moved to the background and stop
: affecting your work.

I've been delaying dealing with these problems in the hope that a
co-sufferer (preferably one using a keyboard layout like myself)
would come along and provide a systematic solution, perhaps even
a template with the shorcuts set up right (nothing wrong with hoping),
but what you suggest above is obviously the way to do it
and I will go about setting the shortcuts up on my own now (and
reassigning as I go, which is part of the problem of course)

: I assume that currently you are using Insert | Symbol to enter an
: optional hyphen?
:

No I used to push the same buttons as you'd do (I think. I'm using a
macbook btw), [Cmd + +] on my end, [Cmd + -] (the key next to zero)
on yours.

From now on I'll be following your suggestion though


: Another possibility--enter an optional hyphen the long way (via Insert |
: Symbol). Hit ¶ to show nonprinting characters. Now select the optional
: hyphen, and bring up Tools | AutoCorrect. Hit the Formatted Text button,
: and enter something crazy that you won't ordinarily type. Now you've got
: an AutoCorrect for an optional hyphen--unfortunately, you have to type
: the something crazy (e.g. &&) and hit space afterwards to get it to
: autocorrect, then you'll have to backspace the space away. Not sure that
: is much quicker.
:

Yes you're probadly right in AC being a little too troublesome, also
you could use Autotext to get around the backspacing part but then
you'd have to push a 3-key combo.

:
: > I didn't have these kind of troubles using Word 2004 in
: > Panther (I skipped Tiger) and coupled with the fact that certain
: > addons in System preferences exhibit the same behavour I suspect
: > it could be a leopard problem, but to be honest I can't quite seem to
: > wrap my head around this... Anyway thanks for the suggestion dear
: >
: >
: >
: Well, Leopard certainly has bugs, but Word 2008 also has bugs, and
: definitely has new bugs related to using non-US keyboard layouts that
: Word 2004 didn't have. You've probably run into one. Please use Help |
: Send Feedback in Word to report this to MS, in as much detail as possible.
:


I will Š thanks for your help hon


: Daiya
: > :
: > : Mitrokhin wrote:
: > : > [this was supposed to have been posted in here and not in MPMO
: > : > so I'm posting it again srry]
: > : >
: > : > Hi
: > : >
: > : > When I first wanted to insert soft/hard hyphens & dash'es I was forced
: > : > to locate the dash character via the Keyboardlayout viewer (or whatever
: > : > the precise name is in english) using an english keyboardlayout since
: > : > they seem to be hardcoded to use said keyboardtype or whatever.
: > : > Cmd + - activates Word help and sure enough thats where the "/" is in
: > : > the keyboardlayout I checked out, likewise the dash character is beside
: > : > the numbers in the top row of the keyboard, ie NOT where it's
: > : > supposed to be (although others may think otherwise
: > : >
: > : > Now my question is what's the technical reason for this, does anybody
: > : > know ? and how do other ppl in my situation cope with this problem...
: > : > On the top of my head I was thinking about maybe trying to hook up
: > : > the proper keys via applescript, provided that is possible at all ?
: > : >
: >
: >
:

 

[Mitrokhin]

i microsoft.public.mac.office.word skrev CyberTaz
søndag 8. juni 2008 12:19:49 (0400), i en artikel med
ID <C4717EE5.3C8EE%[email protected]>
og titlen "Re: [Cmd +] on non-english keyboards ?!", følgende:

: I'm not at all authoritative on the issue, but since you make no mention of
: it I just thought I'd throw this up for consideration: Have you investigated
: working through Apple Menu> System Preferences> International - Input Menu
: to select the appropriate keyboard layout & shortcuts there?
:
: Regards |:>)
: Bob Jones
: [MVP] Office:Mac
:
:

Yes I suppose I could do it that way but I've settled on Daiya's
suggestion which seems to be best thing to do, but thanks for your
input all the same.



:
: On 6/7/08 4:00 AM, in article
: 070620081000393454%[email protected], "Mitrokhin"
:
: >
: > i microsoft.public.mac.office.word skrev Daiya Mitchell
: > fredag 6. juni 2008 20:30:01 (0400), i en artikel med
: > ID <[email protected]>
: > og titlen "Re: [Cmd +] on non-english keyboards ?!", følgende:
: >
: > : What happens if you go to Tools | Customize Keyboard, select Common
: > : Symbols at the bottom of the left column, and use that dialog to set new
: > : shortcut keys for the optional hyphens, etc, that you need?
: > :
: >
: > Does not work unfortunately. Pressing [Cmd + -] produces [Cmd + /]
: > and so on. I didn't have these kind of troubles using Word 2004 in
: > Panther (I skipped Tiger) and coupled with the fact that certain
: > addons in System preferences exhibit the same behavour I suspect
: > it could be a leopard problem, but to be honest I can't quite seem to
: > wrap my head around this... Anyway thanks for the suggestion dear
: >
: >
: >
: > :
: > : Mitrokhin wrote:
: > : > [this was supposed to have been posted in here and not in MPMO
: > : > so I'm posting it again srry]
: > : >
: > : > Hi
: > : >
: > : > When I first wanted to insert soft/hard hyphens & dash'es I was forced
: > : > to locate the dash character via the Keyboardlayout viewer (or whatever
: > : > the precise name is in english) using an english keyboardlayout since
: > : > they seem to be hardcoded to use said keyboardtype or whatever.
: > : > Cmd + - activates Word help and sure enough thats where the "/" is in
: > : > the keyboardlayout I checked out, likewise the dash character is beside
: > : > the numbers in the top row of the keyboard, ie NOT where it's
: > : > supposed to be (although others may think otherwise
: > : >
: > : > Now my question is what's the technical reason for this, does anybody
: > : > know ? and how do other ppl in my situation cope with this problem...
: > : > On the top of my head I was thinking about maybe trying to hook up
: > : > the proper keys via applescript, provided that is possible at all ?
: > : >
:
:

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

I've been delaying dealing with these problems in the hope that a
co-sufferer (preferably one using a keyboard layout like myself)
would come along and provide a systematic solution, perhaps even
a template with the shorcuts set up right (nothing wrong with hoping),
but what you suggest above is obviously the way to do it
and I will go about setting the shortcuts up on my own now (and
reassigning as I go, which is part of the problem of course)

If Word's shortcut system works (and I couldn't test it myself), once
you get past the setup annoyance, that should make the least difference
to your routine.

It's even more trouble, but you should be able to save all the shortcuts
into a specific template, which you can then share, and which will
protect you in case your Normal template corrupts (if Normal corrupts,
shortcut keys may be lost). You would create a template, and in Tools |
Templates and Add-ins, add it as a Global Template.

When you go into Tools | Customize Keyboard, there is a drop-down for
where to save keyboard shortcuts. Unfortunately, for the template to be
an option, it has to be open (more trouble). So I used to keep my
template on the Work menu so I could easily open it before customizing.

Daiya

 

[Clive Huggan]

On 9/6/08 7:31 PM, in article
090620081131033601%[email protected], "Mitrokhin"

I've been delaying dealing with these problems in the hope that a
co-sufferer

<snip>

"Co-sufferer": I *like* that, Ken!

Clive Huggan
(who has so far spared himself the suffering of moving to Word 2008)
============

 

[Mitrokhin]

i microsoft.public.mac.office.word skrev Daiya Mitchell
mandag 9. juni 2008 7:12:22 (0400), i en artikel med
ID <#[email protected]>
og titlen "Re: [Cmd +] on non-english keyboards ?!", følgende:

: Mitrokhin wrote:
: > I've been delaying dealing with these problems in the hope that a
: > co-sufferer (preferably one using a keyboard layout like myself)
: > would come along and provide a systematic solution, perhaps even
: > a template with the shorcuts set up right (nothing wrong with hoping),
: > but what you suggest above is obviously the way to do it
: > and I will go about setting the shortcuts up on my own now (and
: > reassigning as I go, which is part of the problem of course)
:
: If Word's shortcut system works (and I couldn't test it myself), once
: you get past the setup annoyance, that should make the least difference
: to your routine.
:

So far (unbeliably , it seems to work fine. It's not that much of an
annoyance, besides it also helps me in my continous procastination
efforts


: It's even more trouble, but you should be able to save all the shortcuts
: into a specific template, which you can then share, and which will
: protect you in case your Normal template corrupts (if Normal corrupts,


Good point and Š

: shortcut keys may be lost). You would create a template, and in Tools |
: Templates and Add-ins, add it as a Global Template.
:

Š you got me thinking because under Word 2004 I did have this global
template as an addin which until now I had completely forgotten about:
Hmm I suppose I could copy the toolbar from the old template to a new
one (thereby saving some time) and start adding customizations


: When you go into Tools | Customize Keyboard, there is a drop-down for
: where to save keyboard shortcuts. Unfortunately, for the template to be
: an option, it has to be open (more trouble). So I used to keep my
: template on the Work menu so I could easily open it before customizing.
:

Ahh that's a nice trick to remember

Thanks for all your help dear it's much appreciated