cmyk again

[websmoker]

Hi,
Is printing to the PDF printer as CMYK the correct setting for the
commercial printer service?
I was told the PDF produced by us was NOT CMYK and we have to start all over
again.
Question,
If I follow preciesly what
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/assistance/HP052642461033.aspx is showing
on that site-page, the time of printing to PDF for 8 pages of A4 full with
pictures is taking 4 hours.
Is there a simple way to do it quick?

Or can I better take the satndard options of Publisher and NOT use plates.

Sorry to bother again,
Karel

 

[°°MS-Publisher°°]

That is correct the PDF will be RGB and NOT CMYK

If you want a proper DTP program with PDF all built and proper CMYK suggest
you move to Serif PagePlus
http://www.serif.com/pageplus/pageplus10/index.asp
if you intend doing this type of work.

Serif forums are here
http://www.serif.com/forum/default.asp

Serif comes with a 30 day unconditional money back guarantee so you are
risking nothing trying it.

If you are desperate, post back and I will convert the file for you to CMYK
PDF.

 

[Terje Martinsen]

Rubbish?!????

I should know better than start a quarrel with "°°MS-Publisher°°", but your
answer is I think, wrong.

"Websmoker", I suppose you have Pub2003, if not you are in trouble:
Simply open your document, under tools set the "commercial printing
tools/color printing" to process colors. Be aware that any transparent
lines/fills will become solid, as this is not handled by Postscript.

Then, print your publication to a file (filetype .ps) using "Generic Color
PS for Commercial Printing" driver making sure that under "Advanced print
setting" your output is set as "Composite CMYK".
(If you do not have the "Generic Color PS for Commercial Printing"
installed, do so. You find it under "C:\Program files\Microsoft
Office\...something, look for a file called MSCOL11.INF).

Then, take your resulting .ps file and feed it to Adobe Acrobat Distiller(I
myself use version 4), using PressOptimized settings with no changes to
parameters/options.
The resulting file will be a composite CMYK pdf that feeds into most
platesetters.

In the end, if you do not succeed, how many MB is the file?
I will happily convert it for you, but then we need some way of sending it.
No problem on my side, I have a 10 mbit line.

Last year I sent a printed magazine to Brian (48 pages color) that is
produced this way. I never heard from him, but I think he can confirm that
the color conversion is OK. Since that, I have done some 1.000 fullcolor
pages commercially printed.

Should Brian or someone make a FAQ on this?

Best regards
Terje (Norway)

 

[°°MS-Publisher°°]

Comrade Terje not interested in quarrelling at all, only getting the correct
resolution to a problem.
I will digest your post later today, and reply accordingly.

 

[websmoker]

Dear Terje ( and MS publisher)

I am happy with all tips, so....
Terje:
Do I have to do all this per page? Any idea wat the maximum is? I am asking
because maybe 10 pages (or even 44) could be to much to do in one setting?

I have 2003 ( yeh!!)

Is there another way to get it transparant?
This is what I do: I import a picture (bitmap or jpg mostly)
Then: select and with the tool of publisher, I make it transparant. That is
a good option most of the time.
Is it correctly understood that this will NOT be transparant anymore?
That is my biggest worry,

Thanks,
Karel

 

[Terje Martinsen]

Hi!

No, not per page. Setting it up for CMYK print is for the hole document. The
conversion takes 5-20 seconds.
My last document (52 pages) was 180 MB, so I cannot see any practical
maximum as long as your computer i fast enough. BTW, this document was a mix
of text, about 80 photos, at least 5 of them fullpage EPS's.

Transparency:
I do not know if we are thinking about the same feature.
Inside publisher you can make one color/area of a picture transparent. This
is NOT a good idea.
Maybe I have tried it, but I do not think its wise.
If you think about making a picture weak in colors so you can put text on
top, that is OK.
I have extracted one page of my latest pub with a picture like that.
I have remapped the original pdf to screen resolution, so the page is offset
to the paper, but the look is the same.
You can download it here: www.modellfly.info/downloads/PagesfromMi105_2.pdf

What MS says is that line/fills is made NOT transparent, it does not mention
bitmaps.

Generally I would open the picture in PhotoShop or any equivalent program
and treat it from there.
MS Pub is a good DTP, but it is not a good graphic program for changing
pictures.

I have PagePlus myself, have tried it, but do not feel comfortable with it.
Maybe the problem is that I have not used it enough?
BR

Terje

 

[websmoker]

This was most helpfull info.
I can tell you now that the sizes I have for 44 pages are more then 1 cd rom
(840 MB Postscript)
I want to find out ( and I think many readers and users of this forum ) what
the problem is. I am following the newsgroups frequent and can see during a
year postings about the same isues are posted here. I also see that Mary
comes up with good links, but there is something missing.
So.....I will open this isue again and you may all shoot at it:

I think, inserting your favorite picture must be the exact size for the
document. If not, publisher have to recalculate way to much.
So.......making it fit by stretching has to be minimized!

inserting of pictures can/must be reduced as file size per photo( compressed
to level 2, low quality)? these outputs are good enough for the result.
Example; my A4 background is 34MB as a adobe picture, and after compressing
the picture JPEG is1.2 mb.
The result in Postscript is 207 MB for that A4.
Coclusion:
If devellopers are using that picture for the whole document background,
windows will not be amused and no printer file is produced....and nobody
will know why.
The printerdriver maximum is set low.
I have made some changes in it ( see copy file), but there is somewhere
another maximum?
*% ==== General Information and Defaults ================ (see
windows/system32/spool/your printerdriver. name of the file MSCOL11.PPD
*FreeVM: "9992192"
*VMOption None/Standard: "4194304"
*FCacheSize None/Standard: 5204800
*LanguageLevel: "3"
*ColorDevice: True
*DefaultColorSpace: CMYK
-------------------------------

My point to this is: Microsoft does not mention these settings could be the
real troublemaker ( or...., I cannot find them).
Maybe this forum will help solving future problems by anouncing these?

All the best,
Karel

 

[Mike Koewler]

snip<

inserting of pictures can/must be reduced as file size per photo( compressed
to level 2, low quality)? these outputs are good enough for the result.
Example; my A4 background is 34MB as a adobe picture, and after compressing
the picture JPEG is1.2 mb.

That sounds like a a lot of pixels. Every so often, I do a center page
spread (22x17") with about 12 full color jpg images set with no
compression. Their placed resolution is about 200 dpi per picture. The
size of the file tends to be in the seven meg range. Printing directly
to Acrobat 5 instead of first creating a ps file and then distilling
took about 10 seconds; the file size was 4 meg, but it is RGB. I use a
similar but still slightly different program than Publisher and it
allows me to make a CMYK pdf - actually it is PDF/X1-a, which commercial
printers love. That file is a lot larger - 27 megs, but it took only 12
seconds or so to create.

For the record, I use RGB images and let the program convert them to
CMYK when creating the pdf. I've done if a couple of years and it works
great.

Mike

 

[Terje Martinsen]

You have a lot of valid comments here.
Like stretching (or worse shrinking) pictures is a no-no!

But for the size of the file, I have not yet met a maximum.
The pdf-file I made the extract from is 52 pages and 380 MB.
The ps-file I used to distill it from was 1,8 GIGA!

The print to PS and distill job took maybe 15 minutes.

Quite frequently I use a picture to cover 2 adjacent A4-pages to form a
background. I then reduce to 200 dpi.
All other pictures are normally 300 dpi.
Most of them jpeg, but I also use eps (I get some adverts in Photoshop or
PDF that I save as EPS).

I do not know how dependant MS Pub is on having a fast PC, but I will list
my main equipment:
nForce 2 mainboard with:
AMD 3500 XP
1 GB DDR ram
160 GB Seriell ATA disk + 100 GB as secondary disks
Matrox G-550 (one of the best budget video cards for 2D work)

I think the best investment is having lots and lots of RAM.
Disc swapping due to low memory is a pain!

Best regards
Terje

 

[websmoker]

Sorry for the delay.....internet cable was down.
I am getting more results by the day...yeh....thanks to you guys.

Ok....lets start at the beginning. I have a lot of picture editors and today
i started with opening photoshop 6.
There it all begins, because the profile settings and options now are at
cmyk.

My succes tonight was indeed having a quick PS and PDF file, but the collor
of the picture was suddenly more green, to much red etc. etc.
I am now saving as cmyk and do some tests, but the profiles in adobe gives
me another collor (not like the rgb).
I need to find out how I can get the same collor as my original foto and at
the same time the output needed.
I have used Euroscale ( adviced by our commercial printerservice) and it
looks ok in adobe, but NOT in the pdf. Those colors are not the same.

Question:
Is there a work around for this? Or do i need another setting to get the
same results as my original picture.

Thanks,
Karel

 

[Terje Martinsen]

Well, don't mind about the delay.
Do not know where you are (timezone).
I am on GMT-1, which means its mid day now.
Most people on this NG are US residents, which means they are anything from
6-10 hours behind me.

Things are getting too complicated for me now, I never mind about color
scales etc.
Would like to learn about it though.
If it looks OK on screen, then its usually OK in print.
This is not my job then, my magazine is for a sports organization, and
compiled on my non existing spare time.

What I do know is that when the resulting PDF is opened in Acrobat (reader),
the colors seems very bright.
Clean red is almost like glowing. Green and blue are brighter than the
resulting print.
In printing though, some black is added (automatically i think), so the
result looks as it should.

Have to take one of those courses some day!

Best regards
Terje

 

[websmoker]

OK,

I can help you with that in simple explaining. Always good to know. by the
way: Schiphol airport / near amsterdam location.

if you open adobe ( I use 6 photoshop), you can open from the top
IMAGE/MODE.
After opening your picture it shows the RGB settings or you can change them
on that place to real color.CMYK.
In the same column you'l see the tekst: Convert to.....( at the bottum) and
it opens a small window. In that window you can set the profile ( in my case
european).
Also in IMAGE/MODE there is a way of loading profiles and there is a lot
options.
If you now RESAFE the picture on the drive or map, rename them as number 2
or A.
Now you are able to see the difference.

I did not know there are su much options and that is the settings I use now.
I have to resave all my pictures and then I am out of the problems.

many thanks for all the help and advice.

Karel

 

[Terje Martinsen]

I had a feeling we where in Europe.
I have family (4 cousins with family) in Rotterdam, so I have been in the
Netherlands quite often.

I must admit something:
I am using Photoshop Elements 3.0, and it does not handle CMYK.
Does not make any difference though.
If I need CMYK, I convert using Corel 12 or similar.
Photoshop CS is on my wishlist (someday).

If I get an advert in CMYK, I simply insert it directly into Pub2003.
Works great.

Have a nice weekend.

Terje

 

[Brian Kvalheim [MSFT MVP]]

Hi Terje Martinsen ([email protected]),
in the newsgroups
you posted:

|| Rubbish?!????
|| Last year I sent a printed magazine to Brian (48 pages color) that is
|| produced this way. I never heard from him, but I think he can
|| confirm that the color conversion is OK. Since that, I have done
|| some 1.000 fullcolor pages commercially printed.
||
|| Should Brian or someone make a FAQ on this?

Holy crap!!!!!!!!!! I totally forgot who sent it to me, but I have the
magazine and have shown it to MANY people. I think it's AWESOME. One of the
BEST Publisher outputs I have EVER seen. And the magazine is almost Sports
Illustrated Quality. I am very impressed.

I am sorry you never heard back from me. THAT WAS NOT MY INTENT. Sorry about
that. The magazine was indeed fabulous!

--
Brian Kvalheim
Microsoft Publisher MVP
http://www.publishermvps.com

This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranties, and
confers no rights.

 

[Terje Martinsen]

Thank you, thank you thank you!

And you are truly forgiven!

Terje M

 

[kdsdata]

Sorry to butt in this late in the thread.

In this and other posts I see only questions on RGB versus CMYK, and what's
better. The question I have not seen is if it's really necessary to produce
separate plates for printers with separate "ink" rollers for each colours,
because if it is not, then the printers today (laser or LED) don't really
care much. They do really good conversions on their own to what THEY want to
use internally anyway. But see my other reply to "What happens to images in
a CMYK composite output?"