column width versus cell width

[2dogs]

What is the difference between cell width and column width in the table
properties. I find they do the same thing. If I adjust the cell width it
adjusts the entire column. Sometimes it wont do anything at all.

 

[Herb Tyson [MVP]]

If you completely select one or more cells before adjusting the width, then
only the width of the selected cells will be changed. If no cells are
selected, then Word assumes that you want to adjust the width of the entire
column.

To select a cell, move the mouse pointer to the left side of a cell so that
an arrow pointing northeast appears, then click.

 

[2dogs]

I tested this suggstion several times but it did not work. Here are my exact
steps and results.

TEST ONE
1. Start Word
2. Open new blank document
3. In "Page Setup" set left and right margins to 1".
4. Click "Insert Table" icon on Standard toolbar.
5. Insert a 3 x 3 table
6. Select the center cell in the top row (when the cursor becomes a litle
selection arrow).
7. Go to Cell tab in properties dialog, the default width of the cell is
shown as 2.22 and preferred width is checked.
8. Change width setting to 1.0 and click OK.
9. Result, nothing happens.

TEST TWO
1. perform the exact same steps as in TEST ONE except on step 8 change the
width setting to 3."
2. Result, the entire column width changes to 3".

TEST THREE
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 7
2. Change width setting to 1".
3. Go to Column tab and uncheck "preferred width"
4. Click OK
5. Result, entire column is resized to 1".

TEST FOUR
1. Same as TEST ONE steps 1 through 6 (default cell width is left unchanged)
2. Go to Column tab and uncheck "Preferred width"
3. Click OK
4. Result, the entire center column collapses even though the "Cell width"
was still set at 2.2".


Please try these same EXACT steps and see how it works for you.

 

[Tony Jollans]

There is a difference between (actual) width and preferred width.

Preferred width was introduced in Word 2000 and it allows you to express
preferences which may or may not be the deciding factor in determining actual
table properties.

When you specify a preferred width for a single cell in a column of a
different width, Word has to decide how to interpret the conflicting values
it has. In Word 97, the top row (and only the top row) would have been
resized to accommodate the explicit request for a certain width; there wasn't
really any other choice it could make. In Word 2000 (and later) Word has a
choice and it chooses as you have seen. You may not like its choice but it
has a set of guiding principles; if you want something different you must
provide a different set of (possibly still conflicting) values and you may
have to use a bit of trial and error because I am not aware of any
documentation on how Word makes its decisions.

You can, if you wish, still use the old (Word 97) dialog and get the old
behaviour. There are three commands: TableFormatCell, TableCellWidth, and
TableRowHeight and they are available via the Word Commands list under Tools

Macro > Macros (Alt+F8). Alternatively you can add them to your toolbars

via Tools > Customize < Commands (tab), Category "All Commands" - scroll down
the list on the right to find them.

Enjoy,
Tony

 

[2dogs]

upper row, bottom row, center row, it makes no difference. This behavior is
totally unpredictable. For example, why will changing the value to a larger
value have an affect but changing to a lower value doesn't. The whole
operation seems ambiguous to me. (and everybody else I have talked to)
--
2dogs in Oregon USA

There is a difference between (actual) width and preferred width.

Preferred width was introduced in Word 2000 and it allows you to express
preferences which may or may not be the deciding factor in determining actual
table properties.

When you specify a preferred width for a single cell in a column of a
different width, Word has to decide how to interpret the conflicting values
it has. In Word 97, the top row (and only the top row) would have been
resized to accommodate the explicit request for a certain width; there wasn't
really any other choice it could make. In Word 2000 (and later) Word has a
choice and it chooses as you have seen. You may not like its choice but it
has a set of guiding principles; if you want something different you must
provide a different set of (possibly still conflicting) values and you may
have to use a bit of trial and error because I am not aware of any
documentation on how Word makes its decisions.

You can, if you wish, still use the old (Word 97) dialog and get the old
behaviour. There are three commands: TableFormatCell, TableCellWidth, and
TableRowHeight and they are available via the Word Commands list under Tools

Macro > Macros (Alt+F8). Alternatively you can add them to your toolbars

via Tools > Customize < Commands (tab), Category "All Commands" - scroll down
the list on the right to find them.

Enjoy,
Tony

 

[Tony Jollans]

In general, the largest of the all the individual cell preferred widths and
the column preferred width will take precedence (although other settings may
come into play). As I said, you may not like it, but that doesn't make it
unpredictable.

If you don't like the way the feature works you don't have to use it; I do
recognise that the old dialog is not exactly at your fingertips but it is
there. It seems to me like all bases are covered.

Enjoy,
Tony

 

[2dogs]

I have found your general explination to be totally without merit. When put
to the test it does not wash. I appreciate your participation. And I thank
you for your permission to use or not use the feature if I don't like it.
(Frankly, I think this is the kind of answer a person gives when they don't
know the answer.) I am not criticizing the operation or the application. I am
a fan and ardent user of Word. I am trying to understand how these 2 items
interact and in that regard you have not been very enlightening. Did you try
the simple tests I described. If you did please try to explain the results
with something better than "that's just the way it works". I could really use
some viable input.
--
2dogs in Oregon USA

In general, the largest of the all the individual cell preferred widths and
the column preferred width will take precedence (although other settings may
come into play). As I said, you may not like it, but that doesn't make it
unpredictable.

If you don't like the way the feature works you don't have to use it; I do
recognise that the old dialog is not exactly at your fingertips but it is
there. It seems to me like all bases are covered.

Enjoy,
Tony

 

[Herb Tyson [MVP]]

Ah, now I see what you're doing. I get the exact same results you get. Note
that there *is* a way to get what you want. But, that doesn't mean that what
you're doing shouldn't work as well (IMO).

When I first saw your question, I assumed that you were *dragging* cell
borders to change the width of cells, since that seems the natural way to do
it (from my vantage). Select a cell, then *drag* its left or right border to
the left or right. Just that cell changes! And, if you need exact settings,
then hold down the Alt key as you drag, and Word will show you the
dimensions as you drag. You can also drag using the controls on the ruler.

In my view, the fact that what you're trying doesn't work is a bug. Since
adjusting cells and columns yield the identical results, it makes having a
separate cell tab essentially redundant (not to mention frustrating).

 

[2dogs]

I tried to be very specific about the little test so there would be clear
understanding that is hard to convey in words.

I think I have come to the same conclusion. I have been trying this command
every way I could think of for the last 2 days with no consistant or
repeatable resuslt. There are many ways to get cells of different sizes
(splitting and adjusting, drawing, dragging, etc.) but this method seems to
be bunk. It's very embarassing when a client calls and asks how to set the
cell width and when you tell him to use this method he says your an idiot.
Know, what I mean?

 

[Herb Tyson [MVP]]

Yep. Exactly. Tell the client to select the cell and drag its borders.

But, at least you now know where the wall and your head meet. ;-)

--
Herb Tyson MS MVP
Please respond in the newsgroups so everyone can follow along.

I tried to be very specific about the little test so there would be clear
understanding that is hard to convey in words.

I think I have come to the same conclusion. I have been trying this
command
every way I could think of for the last 2 days with no consistant or
repeatable resuslt. There are many ways to get cells of different sizes
(splitting and adjusting, drawing, dragging, etc.) but this method seems
to
be bunk. It's very embarassing when a client calls and asks how to set the
cell width and when you tell him to use this method he says your an idiot.
Know, what I mean?

 

[Tony Jollans]

I'm sorry you feel that way.

You asked about the difference between cell width and column width and
presented a scenario where you were setting neither absolutely. I tried to
give a brief explanation of the difference between width and preferred width
as that seemed pertinent to your question. The actions you demonstrated do
have predictable results, just not the ones you want. I gave you a (viable)
way of doing exactly what you want; is that the action of someone who doesn't
know the answer?

Word tables are extremely flexible, there are many properties which interact
and, as I have said, I have never seen any documentation on the precise rules
for resolving conflicts. However one chooses to do it, changing the
dimensions of one cell in a table must have an effect on the dimensions
and/or position of at least some other cells in the table. Neither the
interface nor the action are perfect, not all the information is presented in
one place, and not all the actions are entirely predictable. Yes, that is the
way it is; I don't know whether that is exactly the way it was designed.

Enjoy,
Tony

I have found your general explination to be totally without merit. When put
to the test it does not wash. I appreciate your participation. And I thank
you for your permission to use or not use the feature if I don't like it.
(Frankly, I think this is the kind of answer a person gives when they don't
know the answer.) I am not criticizing the operation or the application. I am
a fan and ardent user of Word. I am trying to understand how these 2 items
interact and in that regard you have not been very enlightening. Did you try
the simple tests I described. If you did please try to explain the results
with something better than "that's just the way it works". I could really use
some viable input.

 

[Bob S]

I was initially inclined to agree that setting cell widths ought to
behave much like dragging cell borders, but I have changed my mind.

They are two different operations. Dragging a cell border changes the
width of two cells, not one. Setting a preferred width in table
properties only changes the setting for one cell.

What should Word do if you change the width of one cell? If it
automatically changed the setting for the adjacent cell (which it
presumably does when dragging a border), you would probably call it a
bug for setting the property of a cell that you had not intended to
touch. (Officially Word does not even know which border you want to
move when you set a new width; it assumes the right-hand border.)

Word apparently takes the interpretation that most people want cells
in nice neat columns, so if you change the width of one cell it either
leaves the column width alone or changes the whole column.

The result may not be perfect clarity, but it probably produces
reasonable results much of the time.

The obvious objection is that if one wanted to keep columns aligned
one would be setting column widths not cell widths, and the current
behavior does not allow setting unaligned edges from the properties
dialog. But still, what exactly would be "better" behavior? The
obvious alternative would destroy the alignment of all other columns,
which you arguably did not desire.

By the way, there is an interesting follow-on to the test case of
making a single cell preferred width narrower than the column, where
nothing happened. If you do the same to each cell in the column, when
you finish changing the setting for the last cell the column will
indeed get narrower. Word is not actually ignoring the width settings,
it is just over-riding them with the "common sense" idea that cell
edges should be aligned.

Another interesting follow-on is to use dragging to set cell edges out
of alignment, then try setting cell widths in Table Properties. In
many cases Word will move the edge in the direction you specify, but
only until the edges line up again!

Bob S

 

[Suzanne S. Barnhill]

It depends on how you drag it. If you press Shift or Ctrl, you get different
behavior (and different still depending whether you're dragging in the table
or on the ruler); see http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/TblsFldsFms/TableBasics.htm