Corrupted Rules

[Sue Donum]

None of my rules work. I've tried disabling several and creating new ones in
their place, but that doesn't help. I've had lots of database rebuilds, so
maybe there's been too much corruption that somehow affected my rules as
well. I have so many rues, I think maybe the easiest thing to do would be to
trash them all and start over again.

Does that make sense?

 

[Diane Ross]

None of my rules work. I've tried disabling several and creating new ones in
their place, but that doesn't help. I've had lots of database rebuilds, so
maybe there's been too much corruption that somehow affected my rules as
well. I have so many rues, I think maybe the easiest thing to do would be to
trash them all and start over again.

Move the Rules file out of the Identity folder. Quit and restart Entourage.
It will create a new blank Rules file.

Get Started Lesson: Learn to Setup Rules

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/rules/lesson.html>

Hope this helps!

 

[Sue Donum]

Move the Rules file out of the Identity folder. Quit and restart Entourage.
It will create a new blank Rules file.

Great! So, then I can start from a "blank slate," right?

(Just out of curiosity...Is it possible to delete individual rules, or is it
an an "all or nothing" kind of thing?)

Get Started Lesson: Learn to Setup Rules

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/rules/lesson.html>

Hope this helps!

I've been using rules forever, so I don't think it's something I did wrong.
But this will be a good review as I start over again!

Thank you so very much, Diane.

 

[Sue Donum]

Great! So, then I can start from a "blank slate," right?

(Just out of curiosity...Is it possible to delete individual rules, or is it
an an "all or nothing" kind of thing?)

Never mind...I see I _can_ delete them individually (don't know why that
escaped me). This may make it easier for me to replicate my rules: Disable a
rule, but use the information it contains to create its replacement, rather
than starting from scratch as each new message comes in.

 

[Barry Wainwright]

Never mind...I see I _can_ delete them individually (don't know why that
escaped me). This may make it easier for me to replicate my rules: Disable a
rule, but use the information it contains to create its replacement, rather
than starting from scratch as each new message comes in.

It is quite possible that all you have ot do is re-select the
destination folder for any rules that move or copy messages.

Links between rules and folders sometimes get lost in a database rebuild
(because folders sometimes get given new ID numbers, depending on where
and what corruption was repaired).

 

[Sue Donum]

It is quite possible that all you have ot do is re-select the
destination folder for any rules that move or copy messages.

You mean deselect a folder, close the rules, open the rules, and reselect
the same folder?

 

[Barry Wainwright]

You mean deselect a folder, close the rules, open the rules, and reselect
the same folder?

Normally, selecting a different folder, then the original folder, then
close & save the changes. That should be enough to make sure the link is
re-established.

Usually you find that broken folder links result in the rule pointing to
the local inbox rather than the previously selected mailbox.

 

[Diane Ross]

rather
than starting from scratch as each new message comes in.

Remember if the message is selected, Entourage Rules uses the info in that
message as you make your options. Categories are your friend!

 

[Sue Donum]

Remember if the message is selected, Entourage Rules uses the info in that
message as you make your options. Categories are your friend!

I had second thoughts about deleting the rules one by one, thinking that
maybe there is an underlying corruption that affects the entire file. So, I
think I will use your "start from scratch" suggestion, after I make sure I
read through the rules link you sent me and refresh my (limited)
understanding of how the "categories is my friend" works.

PS: I tried Barry's suggestion (re-select the destination folder for broken
rules) on several of the rules. But it didn't help.

 

[Diane Ross]

PS: I tried Barry's suggestion (re-select the destination folder for broken
rules) on several of the rules. But it didn't help.

If you are using addresses, it most likely another rule above that rule is
acting first.

If you select just that rule to run, does it work?

If you have troubles, send screenshots and give us examples. I know it's a
lot of work to type it out, but if you can share the screenshots along with
the Rules window. We can help you track things down.

 

[Sue Donum]

If you are using addresses, it most likely another rule above that rule is
acting first.

I am using addresses. But I've always done it that way, and it's always
worked.

If you select just that rule to run, does it work?

All of my messages end up in a particular folder (not the default "Inbox,"
but another folder I created with its own specific rules).

Once they end up there, if I select any one of them and try to "Apply All
Rules" to it, nothing happens...it just stays there. But if I apply the
_specific_ rule that _should've_ worked for that _particular_ message, the
message is moved to the appropriate folder. (In other words, applying
individual rules to the individual messages they were designed for works as
it should.)

If you have troubles, send screenshots and give us examples. I know it's a
lot of work to type it out, but if you can share the screenshots along with
the Rules window. We can help you track things down.

I know how to post screenshots to ImageShack, for use in newsgroups and
such. I just don't know which screenshots would help diagnose the problem.

 

[Diane Ross]

I am using addresses. But I've always done it that way, and it's always
worked.

Using addresses is more prone to problems. Categories are more trouble free.
Also less number of rules to deal with. For example, you could have all your
work mail go to one folder, then use custom views to then manage the mail.
Custom views can give you multiple views of that folder. Or you could have a
work folder with subfolders.

If in category work
Subject contains xxx
Move to folder xxx

All of my messages end up in a particular folder (not the default "Inbox,"
but another folder I created with its own specific rules).

I think this is where the problem lies. The Inbox is a folder just like all
folders. It is the default folder unless you have rules to move your
messages. If you explain what you want done to your message we can offer how
we would go about setting up the rule.

Once they end up there, if I select any one of them and try to "Apply All
Rules" to it, nothing happens...it just stays there. But if I apply the
_specific_ rule that _should've_ worked for that _particular_ message, the
message is moved to the appropriate folder. (In other words, applying
individual rules to the individual messages they were designed for works as
it should.)

One a rule has run on a message no further rules will act on that message.
The Mailing List Manager will allow further rules to act on a message.

1) POP Rules act on a message ONLY when it first arrives in the Inbox (On My
Computer), NOT when it arrives in any other folder. Once it's moved to
another folder it won't be seen by rules.

2) IMAP Rules are meant to act on a message ONLY when it first arrives in
the IMAP INBOX, not when moved to another IMAP folder.

3) Exchange Rules act on a message ONLY when it first arrives in the
Exchange Inbox.

 

[Sue Donum]

Using addresses is more prone to problems. Categories are more trouble free.
Also less number of rules to deal with. For example, you could have all your
work mail go to one folder, then use custom views to then manage the mail.
Custom views can give you multiple views of that folder. Or you could have a
work folder with subfolders.

If in category work
Subject contains xxx
Move to folder xxx

Well, I've never given the details of creating rules much attention. I
really need to read <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/rules/lesson.html> in
greater detail.

But I am puzzled because I've been doing things the same way since my days
using OE, and I've never had problems before. The, suddenly, these past
several weeks I've been plagued by repeated database corruptions and
rebuilds along with the almost complete breakage of my rules (a few still
work).

I think this is where the problem lies. The Inbox is a folder just like all
folders. It is the default folder unless you have rules to move your
messages. If you explain what you want done to your message we can offer how
we would go about setting up the rule.

OK...I'll try. I need to sit down and think through the folders and
subfolders I have set up and the rules I set up to move messages into them.

For starters, some of the folders are general categories (for example, "Food
& Recipes") into which I have messages from specific addresses sent, as well
as messages with specific food/recipe-related words in their subject lines
sent.

I have a folder called "News" which has subfolders for ABC, MSNBC, NY Times,
and Washington Post, into which subscribed newsletters, etc. are moved.

I have an "Info Tech" folder into which messages with key words in their
subject lines are moved. It also has subfolders for emails from specific
sites (for example, "TidBITS").

I have a general folder which has subfolders, each of which is for messages
from specific individuals.

I also have folders with no subfolders...some are devoted to specific
individuals, others to particular subject matter.

I think this pretty much is range of the different ways I've organized all
of my email folders and rules, but I can give it more thought.

Is this helpful? What else would help?

One a rule has run on a message no further rules will act on that message.
The Mailing List Manager will allow further rules to act on a message.

1) POP Rules act on a message ONLY when it first arrives in the Inbox (On My
Computer), NOT when it arrives in any other folder. Once it's moved to
another folder it won't be seen by rules.

2) IMAP Rules are meant to act on a message ONLY when it first arrives in
the IMAP INBOX, not when moved to another IMAP folder.

3) Exchange Rules act on a message ONLY when it first arrives in the
Exchange Inbox.

I have only POP accounts.

 

[Diane Ross]

But I am puzzled because I've been doing things the same way since my days
using OE, and I've never had problems before. The, suddenly, these past
several weeks I've been plagued by repeated database corruptions and
rebuilds along with the almost complete breakage of my rules (a few still
work).

The database corruption might be affecting your rules. You really need to
address the corruption first.

Rebuilding has not worked to repair many Entourage 2008 imported Identities.
Once you manually setup a new Identity then the Entourage 08 Identity will
be very solid. How to manually move your data. (when import fails and/or you
need to move to a new Identity same version or revert to an older version)

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/install/manual_install.html>

 

[Sue Donum]

The database corruption might be affecting your rules. You really need to
address the corruption first.

Rebuilding has not worked to repair many Entourage 2008 imported Identities.
Once you manually setup a new Identity then the Entourage 08 Identity will
be very solid. How to manually move your data. (when import fails and/or you
need to move to a new Identity same version or revert to an older version)

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/install/manual_install.html>

Ummm....I only installed Office 2008 earlier this week. It took a l-o-n-g
time for it to import/convert my 2004 Identity...but when it got done, it
worked perfectly....by which I mean all of my folders and emails were
intact, and I can send and receive email without a problem. I have found
that it runs more smoothly than 2004...changing fonts/sizes is _much_ easier
as well (in 2004 it was slow as molasses).

The problems (database corruption and broken rules) I've been experiencing
precede the "2008" version of Entourage -- they were with the version from
Office 2004. (I use "2004" and "2008" only as identifiers...I know the
actual versions have different nomenclature). Though 2008 works, the rules
problem from 2004 remains.

 

[Diane Ross]

The problems (database corruption and broken rules) I've been experiencing
precede the "2008" version of Entourage -- they were with the version from
Office 2004. (I use "2004" and "2008" only as identifiers...I know the
actual versions have different nomenclature). Though 2008 works, the rules
problem from 2004 remains.

When the corruption occurred wasn't clear, but to be clear.... even imported
Identities that seemed ok subsequently failed. When that happens you can try
rebuilding but often the quickest and real solution is to manually move to
another Identity. I find that Entourage 2008 Identities created this way are
rock solid. The reports we get on corruption are generally on imported
Identities.

At this point it's getting confusing over what caused the rules to fail and
the best way to fix.

Facts:

* When you import or after a rebuild, you often need to reset the folder
destinations for your Rules.
* Rules can become corrupt, but it's not common. When you do identify the
corrupt rule(s), delete the rule and make a new one.
* Most Rules problems are a result of prior rules acting on messages
resulting in failure for the rule to run.
* Criteria in rule is set incorrectly. For example, you select "if any
criteria are met" instead of "if all criteria are met"

In summary, it's often hard to distinguish between a corrupt rule and a
badly formed rule. When this happens the test in a clean environment to rule
out is the way to go. This would mean you move the Rule file out of the
Identity and start by creating all new Rules.

Sometimes this is not all bad because you can do some clean up and take
advantage of new features like Categories. I know you mentioned you had been
doing it this way since OE, but remember categories didn't exist then. Use
this opportunity to learn how they can simply and enhance Entourage.

Since there is no way to export rules, I suggest taking screenshots to aid
in creating of your rules.

 

[Sue Donum]

When the corruption occurred wasn't clear, but to be clear.... even imported
Identities that seemed ok subsequently failed. When that happens you can try
rebuilding but often the quickest and real solution is to manually move to
another Identity. I find that Entourage 2008 Identities created this way are
rock solid. The reports we get on corruption are generally on imported
Identities.

At this point it's getting confusing over what caused the rules to fail and
the best way to fix.

Facts:

* When you import or after a rebuild, you often need to reset the folder
destinations for your Rules.
* Rules can become corrupt, but it's not common. When you do identify the
corrupt rule(s), delete the rule and make a new one.
* Most Rules problems are a result of prior rules acting on messages
resulting in failure for the rule to run.
* Criteria in rule is set incorrectly. For example, you select "if any
criteria are met" instead of "if all criteria are met"

In summary, it's often hard to distinguish between a corrupt rule and a
badly formed rule. When this happens the test in a clean environment to rule
out is the way to go. This would mean you move the Rule file out of the
Identity and start by creating all new Rules.

Sometimes this is not all bad because you can do some clean up and take
advantage of new features like Categories. I know you mentioned you had been
doing it this way since OE, but remember categories didn't exist then. Use
this opportunity to learn how they can simply and enhance Entourage.

Since there is no way to export rules, I suggest taking screenshots to aid
in creating of your rules.

Just to be sure I understand clearly, you are suggesting that I follow your
original advice ("Move the Rules file out of the Identity folder. Quit and
restart Entourage. It will create a new blank Rules file") and then begin to
create new rules, after first reading
<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/rules/lesson.html>, correct?

 

[Diane Ross]

Just to be sure I understand clearly, you are suggesting that I follow your
original advice ("Move the Rules file out of the Identity folder. Quit and
restart Entourage. It will create a new blank Rules file") and then begin to
create new rules, after first reading
<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/rules/lesson.html>, correct?

Actually there are two ways.

1) make a duplicate of your Identity in the Finder and play around in this
Identity. Set your Account to 'leave on server' for this test.

2) start with a new Rules file in your current Identity

Both accomplish the same objective. Working in a copy for learning won't
mess us anything if you make mistakes.

 

[Sue Donum]

Actually there are two ways.

1) make a duplicate of your Identity in the Finder and play around in this
Identity. Set your Account to 'leave on server' for this test.

2) start with a new Rules file in your current Identity

Both accomplish the same objective. Working in a copy for learning won't
mess us anything if you make mistakes.

Well, I began to read <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/rules/lesson.html>, and
my eyes began to glaze over. It just seems that what used to be
straightforward and relatively easy has become a complicated chore...sort of
reminds me of trying to do on a windows PC what on the Mac is a simple task.

Oh well. <sigh>

 

[William Smith [MVP]]

Well, I began to read
<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/rules/lesson.html>, and my eyes began
to glaze over. It just seems that what used to be straightforward and
relatively easy has become a complicated chore...sort of reminds me
of trying to do on a windows PC what on the Mac is a simple task.

Oh well. <sigh>

Not every problem has an "Easy button" to quote the Staples folks.

Simple solutions can often be destructive while the more complicated
solutions are safer. Different solutions have different levels of
complexity and you'll have to decide your own comfort level.

I think Diane's idea of removing the Rules file and recreating your
rules is a good one. It's simple but then again you will have to
recreate all your rules.

My two cents.

--

bill

Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
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