Could one learn styles from MS's Help and site?

[Norm]

I'm finding the support here, in "Bend Word to Your Will" and on the
Word:mac site very helpful.

And in a reasonable amount of time, I've gained a much greater
understanding of how MS Word works and in some cases doesn't work.

But I'm curious.... and not sure if this is where to pose the question
but..... here goes.

For those of you who have gone through a/the Word learning process
without those resources I mentioned above and have learned Word from
Microsoft's support options of Word Help and their site....

Do you feel that that provided you with a sound understanding of Word in
a reasonable amount of time?

Thanks for any opinions.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

That depends where you are looking

The Help on the Microsoft main site for PC Word 2003 is excellent: an
exposition of how product documentation should be done. And it is a very
good fit for Word 2008.

There are layers and layers and layers of information there, beginning with
"Press this button to Number your text" you can drill all the way to China
and find blog posts on "This is how the List Template associated with a List
Style works."

If you laid it end-to-end, there's probably between 100,000 and 250,000
printed pages of it. If you read it all, you would know more than most of
the Word designers do.

The Word 2007 help is less useful. They dumbed it down. They tried to put
in only the information you "need to know" to do each task. Sadly, what
they forgot is that unless they also tell users WHY they need to know, they
cannot form the mental model of the logical structure of the application, so
the information tends to turn into a meaningless word-salad.

The Word 2008 help is an utter disaster. It is almost completely
"content-free" which is the ultimate condemnation a technical writer gives
to the work of another. Lots of words, but the information density is very,
very low. Not worth serious study.

However, the Mac Word 2008 help does have one feature that is worth having.
Little video demonstrations of certain tasks. For the completely beginning
user, these are worth viewing, because they show you exactly how to go about
a task.

Sadly, they also stop short of giving useful information to anyone who needs
to do the task more than once.

So there you have it. Almost all of my knowledge came from the Word 2003
help and its predecessors. The biggest "Needs to improve" on my list for
next month's Summit with the product designers at Redmond is the Word 2008
help: it's useless.

Cheers

I'm finding the support here, in "Bend Word to Your Will" and on the
Word:mac site very helpful.

And in a reasonable amount of time, I've gained a much greater
understanding of how MS Word works and in some cases doesn't work.

But I'm curious.... and not sure if this is where to pose the question
but..... here goes.

For those of you who have gone through a/the Word learning process
without those resources I mentioned above and have learned Word from
Microsoft's support options of Word Help and their site....

Do you feel that that provided you with a sound understanding of Word in
a reasonable amount of time?

Thanks for any opinions.

This email is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless you intend to pay!

--

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

So there you have it. Almost all of my knowledge came from the Word 2003
help and its predecessors. The biggest "Needs to improve" on my list for
next month's Summit with the product designers at Redmond is the Word 2008
help: it's useless.

Thank you for saving me from spending time and then coming to the same
conclusion. Appreciate.

Is the following an example of Word's uselessness or is it an example of
my poor bifocals and/or search ability.

I tried to find out what Markup does in the menu View>Markup and why if
I deselect it, it keeps reappearing on the next New Document.

Spent 20-30 minutes and didn't find anything. Gave up for now.

Thanks again,

Norm H.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

That's a perfect example of what I was saying:

It's simply not described in the Word 2008 help (there is a topic: it is
where the information 'should' be, but the information you want is not in
the topic.

The Word 2003 help, on the other hand, DOES have the article:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word/HA010451311033.aspx

Cheers

Thank you for saving me from spending time and then coming to the same
conclusion. Appreciate.

Is the following an example of Word's uselessness or is it an example of
my poor bifocals and/or search ability.

I tried to find out what Markup does in the menu View>Markup and why if
I deselect it, it keeps reappearing on the next New Document.

Spent 20-30 minutes and didn't find anything. Gave up for now.

Thanks again,

Norm H.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

That's a perfect example of what I was saying:

It's simply not described in the Word 2008 help (there is a topic: it is
where the information 'should' be, but the information you want is not in
the topic.

Doesn't tell what it is or how to set it or how to deselect. See what
you mean that in some cases worse than useless. :-(

The Word 2003 help, on the other hand, DOES have the article:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word/HA010451311033.aspx

Thanks. Still not sure why it is always selected in my new docs.

Maybe I should write/call MS Word.

Thanks.

 

[John McGhie]

It will be selected by default if the document contains tracked changes or
comments, or if Track Changes is turned on.

Doesn't tell what it is or how to set it or how to deselect. See what
you mean that in some cases worse than useless. :-(



Thanks. Still not sure why it is always selected in my new docs.

Maybe I should write/call MS Word.

Thanks.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

It will be selected by default if the document contains tracked changes or
comments, or if Track Changes is turned on.

No tracked changes as it appears when I open New Document based on
Normal.

Is there another way to deselect Track Changes other than turning off
the 6 items in Track Changes Preferences?

Thanks.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

Leave the 6 items set, but turn OFF "Track Changes".

You want to leave the six items set the way you like them, so if you ever
want to use Track Changes, the changes will be tracked in the manner you
prefer.

Just click the button to turn the Tracked Changes on or Off.

And ignore the "Show Markup" item: I am not sure that it works at all in
Word 2008.

Cheers

No tracked changes as it appears when I open New Document based on
Normal.

Is there another way to deselect Track Changes other than turning off
the 6 items in Track Changes Preferences?

Thanks.

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Leave the 6 items set, but turn OFF "Track Changes".

You want to leave the six items set the way you like them, so if you ever
want to use Track Changes, the changes will be tracked in the manner you
prefer.

Just click the button to turn the Tracked Changes on or Off.

Thanks very much.

MS is soooo good at explaining things and their User Guide is
non-existent! I'd think MS would have an online user guide like the
print guide way back when for 5.1. Regress not progress. IMHO. But then
what do I know!

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

They do have a user-guide, and I gave you the link to it

Here you are again:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word/FX100649261033.aspx

The user guide is no longer produced on paper, because it is simply too big:
about 35,000 pages. Nobody can realistically afford, carry, or use a paper
book that size.

Now, when you look in the Help in Office 2008, it will ask if you want to
"Go Online". You should say "Yes". If you do, you are actually looking at
that website, but filtered to exclude topics that were not written for Word
2008.

Since few topics HAVE so far been written for Word 2008, you may not see
what you need.

So go to the main site in a web browser and get what you need. If you add
"Microsoft Word" in front of your query in Google, it will usually take you
straight to the topic you need, and that's a lot easier and more certain
than using the Microsoft search to get there.

You can set that website to default to any flavour of Word that you like: I
suggest setting it to "Word 2003" because it is a good match for Word 2008
and the help is extensive and complete.

Some of the arcane ".DOCX" things are not available in the Word 2003 Help
because Word 2003 does not have them. So then you need to reset your filter
to show you Word 2007 content. But I suggest that you do not look in Word
2007 section by default, because Word 2007 has a huge range of features and
functions that Word 2008 does not, and you would end up confusing yourself
even more.

But "Yes", it is there, "Yes" it is online, and "Yes" you are welcome to use
it.

Cheers

Thanks very much.

MS is soooo good at explaining things and their User Guide is
non-existent! I'd think MS would have an online user guide like the
print guide way back when for 5.1. Regress not progress. IMHO. But then
what do I know!

--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Norm]

Hi John:

They do have a user-guide, and I gave you the link to it

Here you are again:
http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/word/FX100649261033.aspx

If that is a user-guide, it is not user friendly. IMHO.

Certainly not for the Mac only user.

The user guide is no longer produced on paper, because it is simply too big:
about 35,000 pages. Nobody can realistically afford, carry, or use a paper
book that size.

I understand. But can't they just put in things like preferences and
menu items in a logical format and explain their use and how to turn on
and off?

Now, when you look in the Help in Office 2008, it will ask if you want to
"Go Online". You should say "Yes". If you do, you are actually looking at
that website, but filtered to exclude topics that were not written for Word
2008.

If I do that for Markup, the helpful info is the link there to the forum
posts. That is not a user-guide. IMHO.

snip

So go to the main site in a web browser and get what you need. If you add
"Microsoft Word" in front of your query in Google, it will usually take you
straight to the topic you need, and that's a lot easier and more certain
than using the Microsoft search to get there.

Helpful. Thanks.

Discouraging that it is all, or almost all, written for Windows Word
versions.

You can set that website to default to any flavour of Word that you like: I
suggest setting it to "Word 2003" because it is a good match for Word 2008
and the help is extensive and complete.

Didn't see that ability. I'll look again.

snip

But "Yes", it is there, "Yes" it is online, and "Yes" you are welcome to use
it.

Hmmmm....... unless I'm missing something that is a "nice" Windows
user-guide.

Thanks for the links. Helpful.

Norm.

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Norm:

I understand. But can't they just put in things like preferences and
menu items in a logical format and explain their use and how to turn on
and off?

They could, and in some cases, they have. It's a big site: keep hunting.

Discouraging that it is all, or almost all, written for Windows Word
versions.

Well there's about 1,000,000,000 installed copies of Windows Word out there,
and only about a million Mac Word. If you wanted us all to pay about ten
times as much per copy of Mac Office, I am sure they would be delighted to
write you a manual, in any form you like.

Microsoft is a software company: a member of the "second oldest" profession
They'll do anything they can spin a buck out of.

But generally the difference is only a few keystrokes. Given the legendary
unwillingness of users like me to put their hands in their pockets and pay
ten times as much for Mac Office, I suggest that the prospects of being able
to produce a Mac-Office-Only flavour of the manual at a profit are somewhere
between 0 and none.

There is a technological solution in the works. Those XSLTs I told you
about. These have the ability to edit the text for Mac or PC depending on
the browser that opens the website. Some of that technology is already in
place. The rest is waiting on a reliable way to detect Mac or PC, and on
the resources to re-write all of that content into the new format, tagged
with platform-specific tags.

Cheers


--

The email below is my business email -- Please do not email me about forum
matters unless I ask you to; or unless you intend to pay!

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP (Word, Mac Word), Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. | Ph: +61 (0)4 1209 1410
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]