Creating a PDF from Word 2004 Mac embeds hundreds of font subsets...

[Pete]

I have a large document...360 pages...that is the manuscript of a book
that I created in Word for Mac 2004. The book printers need a pdf file
to print, so I've created pdfs using Adobe Acrobat in several different
ways. No matter how I do it, I can't figure out how to solve a very big
problem: the pdf has literally hundreds (perhaps thousands) of font
subsets. Many of these subsets are repeated (for example, nearly a
hundred embedded subsets of Times Bold). The printers really hate the
embedded subset issue, and since this book may be going to several
different printers, they want me to clean up the subsets.

Here's the kicker: my Adobe Distiller settings say to embed fully embed
all fonts, not subsets. Still, I end up with a vast list of subsets (it
take Acrobat several minutes just to catalogue all the subsets for
viewing in the Document Properties window).

I haven't seen anything like this with any other programs - only Word.

I have a sneaking suspicion that the problem is due to section breaks
in the Word doc, but I need all the sections breaks... Of course I
could be wrong about the section break thing...it's just an idea.

Any thoughts out there?

 

[Pete]

Thanks, John.

I'm trying your suggestion as I type. I use section breaks for a couple
of reasons. One is to have different footers for each chapter or
section of my book. I don't know another way to create different
footers without using different sections.

I'll post back as soon as I've tried getting rid of all sections
breaks.

Pete

 

[Pete]

Hi John,

Section Breaks were not the problem...or not the only problem. As you
suggested, I replaced all section breaks with page breaks and then
created a pdf. The pdf has just as many embedded font subsets - close
to 3000 of them, in fact.

Any other suggestions? This is driving me crazy!

Pete

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Thanks, John.

I'm trying your suggestion as I type. I use section breaks for a couple
of reasons. One is to have different footers for each chapter or
section of my book. I don't know another way to create different
footers without using different sections.

Not a fix for your original problem (since section breaks aren't the cause),
but side note for future reference:

Depending on the footers, you don't necessarily need section breaks. For
instance, if you want each footer to show the name of the chapter, a
StyleRef field in the footer can pull the most recent text that was
formatted in style "ChapterTitleStyle".
More info:
http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/StyleRef.htm
Or
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/NumberingFrontMatter.htm
(hit reload a few times in Safari, or use a different browser), scroll to
"beyond numbering"

If you want to restart footnote numbering in each chapter, you need section
breaks.

 

[John McGhie [MVP - Word and Word Macintosh]]

Hi Pete:

Oh. Rude words... I was desperately hoping that it was the section breaks.

Incidentally, for each test, it's important to close and re-open the
document. It's then that Word cleans out the internal structure of the
file. It may be worth re-converting the hacked copy before you go any
further, just in case the PDF writer got confused by the deleted text that
had not yet been removed. Test after each of the following.

OK. "Something" is confusing the PDF writer into thinking that thing is
multiple documents. Other things that could be doing it are tracked
changes, versions, pictures and text boxes.

So: In your hacked copy, open the Reviewing toolbar and Accept all changes.
Save and re-open, then convert to PDF. I don't think tracked changes will
do it, but they confuse the hell out of other things so let's get rid of
them.

Now check to make sure you have not saved any Versions in that document. I
don't think it can be that, because if there were any, they would have been
removed when you saved the copy.

Now run through and delete all the text boxes. Save and re-open, then
convert to PDF.

Now run through and delete all the pictures. Again, save and re-open and
re-convert.

Equations might do it too: remove them and try again.

Finally, select the whole document and do Edit>Clear>Clear formats. That
sets everything back to a single Normal style. There CAN be only one font
in the document after that, so if that doesn't clear the problem, it was a
corrupt document.

To de-corrupt the document, create a new blank document, and carefully copy
everything except the last paragraph mark. Paste into the new document. If
you copy the last paragraph mark, you copy the problem.

If none of those cures the problem, then I really have run out of ideas.

Cheers

Hi John,

Section Breaks were not the problem...or not the only problem. As you
suggested, I replaced all section breaks with page breaks and then
created a pdf. The pdf has just as many embedded font subsets - close
to 3000 of them, in fact.

Any other suggestions? This is driving me crazy!

Pete

--

Please reply to the newsgroup to maintain the thread. Please do not email
me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie <[email protected]>
Microsoft MVP, Word and Word for Macintosh. Business Analyst, Consultant
Technical Writer.
Sydney, Australia +61 (0) 4 1209 1410

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Pete -

What version of Acrobat are you using (including update #s)?

Is the doc generating multiple PDFs which are then being combined as one?

Also, re

You only mention this one document. Have PDFs generated from *other* Word
docs demonstrated the same problem? Have you generated PDFs from comparable
documents created with other software?

Approximately how many actual fonts have been used in the doc? What font
types are they & can you name some in addition to Times Bold mentioned in
your first post?

I don't know that I have a solution, but if you can supply the requested
info I may be able to find someone who does

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Pete]

Thanks for the tip, Diaya!

That'll go into the next version.

 

[Pete]

Thanks again, John.

I wasn't tracking revisions,so that wasn't the problem. I'm currently
recreating a pdf after reopening the hacked version. After that I'll
try your other two suggestions and get back to you.

 

[Pete]

Hi Bob,

I'm using Acrobat Professional 7.0.7.

Only one pdf is being created. In the previous version of this same
file, I had the problem of multiple pdfs, but I think I tracked that
down to having back-too-back section breaks, which I corrected.

I haven't seen this behavior in other files, but I don't have anything
as long and complicated as this document, and frankly, haven't looked
at the embedding in other files. I'll see what files I can dig up and
check for the same issue.

Fonts used in the Document:

TImes (Roman, bold, italic, bold italic)
Palatino (Roman, bold italic)
Rockwell Extra Bold
Helvetica (Bold)
Monotype Sorts
Zapf Dingbats
Any fonts that Equation Editor (actually Mathtype) uses (MT Extra, I
believe)
Also, Acrobat tells me ArialMT, but I can't find Arial anywhere in the
document (using Find)
Finally, some of the fonts, like Symbol, are listed in Acrobat's Doc
Properties window as TrueType , Ansi for some embeddings, and Truetype
(CID) Identity-H for other embeddings.

Thanks!

Pete

 

[Phillip Jones]

I've noticed this on my PowerBook 17" using OX.4.8.; though not in the
100's maybe 20 copies if the same font and seems to be just one
particular font. When I was running X.4.7 didn't have the problem. might
be an after effect of fixing the astu problem regarding the crash on
opentype fonts.

Not a fix for your original problem (since section breaks aren't the cause),
but side note for future reference:

Depending on the footers, you don't necessarily need section breaks. For
instance, if you want each footer to show the name of the chapter, a
StyleRef field in the footer can pull the most recent text that was
formatted in style "ChapterTitleStyle".
More info:
http://sbarnhill.mvps.org/WordFAQs/StyleRef.htm
Or
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Formatting/NumberingFrontMatter.htm
(hit reload a few times in Safari, or use a different browser), scroll to
"beyond numbering"

If you want to restart footnote numbering in each chapter, you need section
breaks.

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto[email protected]

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<http://www.vpea.org>

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

You're welcome.

Unfortunately, I just remembered that if you want a blank First Page Footer
to start each chapter, you still need the section breaks.

 

[Robert R. Rahl]

You can also get a blank First Page Footer (without using a Section
Break) by making use of a "blank" carriage return somewhere on the page.
By "blank" I mean a carriage return with no text preceding it. For
example, the first page of a chapter often has the chapter-title line
followed by at least one extra carriage return before the text of the
chapter begins.

Highlight the "blank" carriage return and set it to a style which is
defined but not used on that page, for example Header 6. In the footer
you can then use {STYLEREF "Header 6"} to produce a blank First Page Footer.

RRR

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Oh, very snazzy trick! I never thought of that one. Thanks.

I suspect it might require some manipulation to ensure that *only* the first
page footer goes blank, and not the rest, but I'm not going to bother about
that now.

 

[Pete]

Yeah, nice trick, thanks.

Now, how the heck to you get rid of section breaks with columns?

And another questions, I've found that sometimes section breaks contain
bad info in the footers...for example, I have a small document right
now that has margins set too wide somewhere. I can't find where, but I
suspect it's in the footer info for one of the sections that's in the
middle of a page, and so I can't ever see the footer to fix it.

Any thoughts?

Pete

 

[CyberTaz]

Interjections below:

Now, how the heck to you get rid of section breaks with columns?

For newspaper-type columns you need section breaks - no other [simple] way
in Word. A couple of workarounds if they'll work for you...

1) Use a table, instead, with the Borders set to None & the Gridlines Off.

2) Use Linked Text Boxes, No Border - No Fill

Both are a PITA if you need many in one doc (as I expect you might in this
case), but they may resolve the dilemma. That's why the software gods gave
us page layout programs ;-}

And another questions, I've found that sometimes section breaks contain
bad info in the footers...for example, I have a small document right
now that has margins set too wide somewhere. I can't find where, but I
suspect it's in the footer info for one of the sections that's in the
middle of a page, and so I can't ever see the footer to fix it.

The only type of section break that can be totally 'contained' within
"page" - or "middle of a page" as you put it - is a Continuous Section Break
which don't have their own Header/Footer. Also, right & left H/F margins are
the same as the page margins in any given section. The only thing that
varies for H/F is Top & Bottom.

Why do you think the margins are "set too wide somewhere"? If you're
convinced the problem is H/F related go to Header and Footer & use the
controls on the right end of the H/F toolbar to check them out.

HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Pete]

Okay, here are the latest updates.

I tried copying everything except the final paragraph mark to a new
document. No luck. Same embedded subset issue.

I tried clearing all formatting. Some luck. Clearing formatting didn't
clear the Footer formatting, so I expected to see some subsets (I use
Rockwell and Times in the footer). The equations remained, so I
expected to see some subsetting there. I ended up with about 600 font
subsets. Yeah, that's right, 600, after I cleared all formatting. That
includes a whole lot of Times italic, bold and roman subsetting. About
half the subsets are for TImes!

Good thing I have lots of hair, 'cause I'm pulling it out in clumps.

Anyway, there's not much point in trying to take the equations and
pictures out...I need them. Half the book is basically a math manual.
The pictures are mostly geometry figures, etc., that are necessary.

Any more thoughts? I've toyed with the idea of taking the file to a PC,
but I'm afraid of what the platform change would do to formatting...

 

[Pete]

Alright, I did it. I pulled out every equation and every picture in the
first 80 pages and created a pdf of those 80 pages.

I still have about 400 embedded subsets in just those 80 pages. The
original file had about 1400 embedded subsets for those first 80 pages,
so we're down quite a bit from the original, but 400 embedded subsets
still doesn't seem acceptable.

What next?

Pete

BTW, is there an easy way to convert all the equations to pictures at
one time? A script or Macro perhaps?

 

[Pete]

Okay, now for another kicker.

I converted the word doc to an Adobe Indesign file on my Mac, including
all the equations and pictures. It's going to take some massive
reformatting, but Indesign might end up being my solution because...the
entire file has only about 20 - 30 embedded subsets.

So now we know it's a Word or a Mac and Word combined problem.

So what do you think? Try to solve the problem in Word, or spend the
next week reformatting in Indesign?

Pete

 

[Pete]

Hi John,

Well, saving as a website, closing word, reopening and saving as a doc
didn't help at all...still over 1400 embedded subsets in the first 100
pages alone. Interestingly, the equations weren't converted to bitmat.
When I saved as a doc they were editable equation editor (Math Type)
files.

Looks like I have to teach myself InDesign.

Man, I have to say, every Microsoft product I use - from Word to
Excel to Windows Mobile on my cell phone - causes me way more
headaches than their worth. I've literally spend at least half the time
working on this manuscript figuring out how to get Word to work
properly. And I used to work for Microsoft...

Well, thank you so much for all your help. You had great ideas, but it
looks like I'm going to make the switch...unless anyone else out there
has some brilliant file-saving plan.

Pete

 

[CyberTaz]

Just so you know - I took this problem to the Adobe forum immediately after
my posting on the 6th, but as yet have had *no* takers on the issue. There
is one reply to my post which is from another user with a similar problem &
no solution. I also found nothing in other threads that were on the same
line.

Apparently it isn't a very common occurrence & there aren't any 'canned'
cures. Sorry :-(

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac