Creating individual .pub files

[Christiaan]

David,

We spoke the last time concerning the "break up" of my 310 page website. I
went to all of the previous comments and the links that you provided,
however, I can not find your post about the break up. Would you please advise
me again on how this should be done. Should I just copy and paste or is there
an other way to create .pub files and keep my current color schemes. I am
going to make each page an individual .pub file.

 

[Don Schmidt]

One way that it could be done is make three copies of the file, i.e.,
file1.pub, file2.pub and file3.pub.

In file1.pub delete pages 101 through 310.

In file2.pub delete pages 1 through 100 and pages 201 through 310.

In file3.pub delete pages 1 through 200.

 

[DavidF]

Chistiaan,

The thread where we discussed this before is:
http://groups.google.com/group/micr...8d85f09?lnk=gst&q=Christiaan#ddb4508198d85f09

We didn't really discuss the mechanics as much as we did the structure. Are
you asking about an actual work flow for converting your one Pub file to
multiple files? If so, post back and I will share some ideas about how I
would approach the project.

DavidF

 

[Mike Koewler]

I am
going to make each page an individual .pub file.

You are looking at a disaster waiting to happen if you do this.

Mike

 

[Christiaan]

Hi David,
I need to break the site up into individual files. Don suggested that I copy
my site and delete the other pages: keeping the ones that I want in that
specific .pub file. I thought of doing all the big work now and create a .pub
file for every page in my site but I see now that Mike predicts a disaster.
Should I rather stick to the 12 sections as discussed earlier?

 

[DavidF]

Christiaan,

I would like to hear more about what Mike was thinking when he said breaking
your site up into a Pub page for each page would be a disaster. He has a
good mind for organizing things (and raising peppers ;-), and I am sure he
had a good reason for saying such.

I discussed at length what I thought was the most logical way to break up
your site in that thread I referenced. It seemed to me that you did not need
to break it up with each page a separate Pub file. It seems to me now that
would be overkill and might over-complicate things...especially a navigation
system. I would go back and read my reply after you provided a link to your
site, and I discussed making the "City" pages individual Pub files, and how
to incorporate those into your site. Think about how you are going to build
the navigation system, and that should dictate how you build the site...and
think about how you are going to add to the site. The whole idea is to break
the site up so it is more easily managed. You don't want to have to go back
and change all the static parts of the site just to add a City. I will think
more about this, and offer other ideas after reading about what Mike has to
say.

I would change one suggestion I made in that thread. I have read that for
SEO (search engine optimization) that using something like
"northwestlichtenburg.htm" instead of "index.htm" is a better choice for
your subwebs. I had suggested it was easier for me to always use the default
"index.htm", and now I am not sure I would. I would use subfolders to
organize the site, but perhaps not index.htm each time. Yes, the main home
page should be index.htm but not necessarily the others....

Let's hear from Mike...and then I may have some other thoughts and opinions.

DavidF

 

[DavidF]

Mike,

Thanks for jumping in here. Would you please elaborate on why you say it
would be a disaster? Also, can you suggest a "best" way for Christiaan to
break his site up and organize it. Single pages/single pub files seems
overkill to me too, but I am curious about why you said it. Thanks.

DavidF

 

[Mike Koewler]

David,

Unless Christian is anal retentive like me, he has used relative links,
so copying and pasting text or object with links will mean they are
broke. He will also have to be very careful renaming pages so he doesn't
end up with a couple dozen index.htm pages.

I faced this problem at the end of 2006. For week after week, I kept
adding pages of news, links to other groups, etc. Suddenly my file was
out of control with over 300 pages. So I copied just the main pages to a
new file and used absolute links instead of relative ones. I then
deleted all of those pages and uploaded the file to /2006. Then I
created a /2007 folder and file and kept the copied pages as my main
file. It gets updated to my root directory, which has links to the 2006
and now 2007 archives.

Even now, once a file gets to about 60 pages, I start a new one with
only the skeleton pages and rename it something like 2008April.wpp. I
can do incremental updates without deleting files so that isn't a problem.

I do something similar with a site I do for my church. Since I add at
least 12 pages a month, it was becoming way too large also. Now stuff
goes into a 2008 folder or a special events folder. Yeah, I have more
native files, but they stay relatively small in size. Also, and I don't
know if Pub allows this or not, I can insert an "offsite" page and have
it automatically included in the Nav Bar

Mike

 

[DavidF]

Now I understand. I actually addressed the issue of relative vs. absolute
links in the looooong thread and discussion we had before (which I doubt you
read...way too long and wordy). I hope he realizes that the primary
challenge he faces is the navigation system. It needs to be such that adding
a page does not require going back and changing 200 plus pages. Also he does
use custom file names instead of index.htm already, so that shouldn't be a
big change.

I am sure you are busy, but if you or anyone else have any ideas of how best
to organize his site, it is at http://www.siyayasa.com/.

About the only argument I can think of for breaking it up to one page per
Pub file is that if he eventually decided to switch to a server side
database, having the individual pages could make the conversion easier.

A bit off topic, but do you know anyway to import a textual navbar, and
specifically one that looks like the typical bottom navbar, into a page? I
currently import a javascript menu to each page that only requires changing
the javascript in one folder on my host, and the change is reflected in each
page. I can tell Christian how to do that, but I haven't figured out how to
import a textual navbar at the bottom of each page. And if anybody else has
an idea, I would appreciate it.

DavidF

 

[DavidF]

Christiaan,

I have some more ideas about how to go about converting your site, and a
work flow, but don't have the time to explain myself right now. I will try
to post the thoughts within a day or so...

DavidF

 

[Christiaan]

Hell it's nice to have so much help, thanks guys!!!

I think what I am going to do now:
I am going to make my homepage a single .pub file.
Each of the 9 provinces consists of a provincial "homepage" and about 30
pages of content that relates to each province. For instance: the Limpopo
"homepage" wil be linked from my site homepage and the content of Limpopo
will be linked from the Limpopo "homepage" but the Limpopo "homepage" will
still be called Limpopo.htm.

I think that I should give the about us and the advetise with us pages their
own .pub files becuase they are going to be static. So in effect the site
should look something like this:

index.htm(Site homepage)
Limpopo.htm
Mpumalanga.htm
Gauteng.htm
Northwest.htm
Freestate.htm
Kwazulunatal.htm
Northerncape.htm
Easterncape.htm
Westerncape.htm
aboutus.htm
advertisewithus.htm

I will build the nav bar myself with some text or small images. I am just
not sure how the link will look that links index.htm(site homepage) to the
provincial "homepages". Am I in the right direction?

 

[Mike Koewler]

Christiaan,

I would probably keep the about us and advertise with us pages in the
original file. It won't clutter up your file but will be easy to maintain.

The links would be simple. Your homepage would be:
http://www.siyayasa.com/ with other pages such as About and Advertise
looking like http://www.siyayasa.com/about.htm

Your other files would go in their own folder so the homepage for
Limpopo would be http://www.siyayasa.com/limpopo/index.htm or you can
name it http://www.siyayasa.com/limpopo/limpopo.htm

The advantage of naming it index.htm is that is what browsers will look
for. If someone would type in http://www.siyayasa.com/limpopo/ without
the file name, they will get a directory listing of all the files in
that directory.

Mike

 

[Mike Koewler]

David,

I don't know the coding for Nav Bars but if all Christiaan wants is a
link to each main page without submenus, a simple table or row of text
with links to each page would work. He could liven it up by using
mouseovers or such.

Mike

 

[DavidF]

Your current home page:
http://www.siyayasa.com/index.htm

Current link to Limpopo page:
http://www.siyayasa.com/index_files/Limpopopage.htm
Link after creating new Pub file, Limpopo.pub, saving home page as
limpopo.htm instead of index.htm or limpopopage.htm when you Publish to the
web, and uploading to a new folder on your host called "limpopo":
http://www.siyayasa.com/limpopo/limpopo.htm
I would suggest that you consider getting away from using uppercase, unless
you can be very consistent. I also don't know why you couldn't use
limpopo.htm instead of limpopopage.htm??? I just don't see the need to use
the "page" part. Unless you have a good reason for that, I think the shorter
version is better. Plus one of the reasons to use "limpopo.htm" vs
"index.htm" is that in theory it will help with search engine optimzation
SEO. It seems to me that the search engines might like to see the name of
the province, and not provincepage. The main thing is it would be shorter...
And keep in mind what Mike said, it can be a good thing to use "index" for
the default home page for many reasons.

Then if I understand you correctly, the individual cities and all the links
from those cities will be part of the limpopo Pub file. So if you follow the
link to Ellisras that link right now is:
http://www.siyayasa.com/index_files/ellisras.htm
Now as a subpage of the limpopo Pub file the link will be:
http://www.siyayasa.com/limpopo/limpopo_files/ellisras.htm
Don't forget that when you Publish to the Web, and if you choose something
other than index as the default file name then the index_files subfolder
(that contain your other pages and all the graphics) is changed to reflect
the file name. So when you save the home page as limpopo.htm you will get a
limpopo_files folder containing the other pages and the graphics.

So now I also assume that the accomodation page for Ellisras is part of the
limpopo.pub file, so that link is now:
http://www.siyayasa.com/index_files/ellisrasaccommodation.htm
and would become:
http://www.siyayasa.com/limpopo/limpopo_files/ellisrasaccommodation.htm

Etc, etc...

So you would be working with 12 Publisher files and 11 subfolders on your
host. Your home page will be uploaded to exactly where it is now. It will be
a single page, but will have both an index.htm file and an index_files
folder. One subfolder will be called "aboutus", another "advertisewithus".
The other 9 subfolders on your host will be named "limpopo"...after the
province name. All these subfolders will located at the same level in the
directory as the index_files folder is for the home page.

Now is that what you are proposing and does the way the links are written
make sense to you?

Your organization seems logical and will make it easier to manage. If you
think the providence Pub files will end up being more than 30 or so pages, I
would suggest that you consider an alternative. Keep all the main sections
with the home page in one pub file of 12 pages, and produce eacy cities
content with a seperate pub file and their own subfolder on your host. Yeah
a lot more initial work, but as you add content to the cities and even more
cities, it will be easier to manage...just thinking out loud. Isn't the city
content the most dynamic part of your site?

DavidF

 

[Christiaan]

Sorry for taking so long to respond but your suggestions does make a lot of
sense and the links will be easier to manage your way. I see what you are
saying about the amount of pages per section so I am now faced with a
decision. My site is having a slow start but yes, if that changes, the
sections will grow very rapidly and I will have to restructure the site. I
think that while my site is currently published, rather do the big work now.

Thanks for your and Mike's help, I will shout if I need anything else.

 

[DavidF]

You are welcome, and hope we haven't led you down a bad path.

One suggestion if I haven't made it before now has to do with updating or
replacing an existing website. I have done total makeovers of my site on
occasion, and I have always worried about deleting the old site before
confirming the new site is up and functioning. My workaround for this has
been to log on to my host and rename the original index.htm file to
index.htmOld and the index_files folder to index_filesOld before uploading
the new files. If the new files don't work as I expected, I delete them from
the host, and go back and rename the original files and folder, remove "Old"
from both, and I have my old site back up. Only after I have the new site up
and running do I finally delete the old files on the server. And of course
keep a copy of your original Publisher file that has the original site, so
that if you must, you can recreate the original html files and upload again.

And one more tip. You mentioned building your own menu/navbar. If you build
a textual navbar you can add some CSS code to each page to get a more
dynamic menu. Using the insert html code fragment tool, try inserting the
following code snippets one at a time on a page on your site that has
regular underlined hyperlinks, do a web page preview and then mouseover the
links.

--------

<style>
a{text-decoration:none}
</style>

--------

<style>
a{text-decoration:none}
a:hover {color: #930015; font-weight: bold;}
</style>

--------


<style>
a:hover {color: #930015; font-weight: Bold; text-decoration: none;}
</style>

---------

You can vary the font color, whether to use the bold text mouseover effect,
and/or remove or add the underline by varying this basic code snippet.
Remember that the code snippet has to be inserted on each page...just stick
in the corner some where.

Oh...and to determine the color code, download and use the free color picker
tool Pixie: http://www.nattyware.com/pixie.html
A great tool that Mary told me about.

nuff...DavidF

 

[DavidF]

Christiaan,

I think that you should rethink moving to a new program to build your site.
As much as I enjoy the challenge of helping you figure out how best to use
Publisher to produce your site, it really is probably in your best interests
to switch to a program like Web Expression.

I think the timing is right as you are ready to rebuild your site, page by
page. If you are already prepared to invest the time to do that, then you
may as well rebuild your site one page at a time in a web building program
that isn't going to limit you like Publisher will. No matter how hard you
try with Publisher, you are never going to be able to accomplish what you
will be able to do with Web Expression. Nor will it ever be easy to manage a
200+ page that will grow to many more, with Publisher. There are many things
that you will want to do with your site in the future that you haven't even
thought about yet, that will be so much easier in Web Expression. If you are
going to invest the time to rebuild your site, then invest that time in a
program that won't limit growing your site...chances are you will eventually
make the switch, so you may as well do it now.

Web Expression has some bugs and some problems, but MSFT seems to have it on
a high priority list, and committed to making it a good program. They have
invested a lot in replacing FrontPage...or discontinuing FP, and introducing
Web Expression as a "more better" web program. So it does seem that it is on
the fast track for version 2 to come out with fixes to most of the bugs with
the first version plus some added functionality. I read recently that MSFT
has decided that if you buy the current version then you will get version 2
for free when it comes out. That also implies version 2 may be coming fairly
soon. Check for details.

I would look at a number of alternatives to Web Expression, but also I would
suggest you strongly look at it. Go to the newsgroup and read some of the
posts and ask some questions about rebuilding your site in Web Expression.
Rob and a lot of other really smart people hang out there, and they treat
newbies nicely. I am sure if you posted your URL, told them that you wanted
to rebuild your site in Web Expression, that they will be happy to help and
make suggestions about how to proceed.

You should also look at Serif Web Plus. It is inexpensive, is much like a
DTP in the way you layout the pages, relatively easy to use, and offers a
lot more built-in functionality than Publisher. Much easier to learn and use
as compared to Web Expression. Mike Koewler uses it to build his sites and
loves it. I am impressed with what I have seen and know of it.

So, though I am happy to continue helping you use Publisher to build and
maintain your site if that is your choice, I just think you may have
outgrown Publisher...your site deserves better. And given the timing, now is
the time for you to consider making the change, so I had to say something.

Just my two cents worth...

DavidF