Cut the Ribbon Please and reintroduce the old classic menu style!

[Dk_girl]

I just upgraded my MS Office with the purchase of a new computer. I wish to
extend my condolences on introducing a new format which may very well
elimnate a significant experienced user base from your product. There is a
need to reconsider providing an ADD-IN for your new MS Office 2007 programs.
The nifty little revamping of your programs has nothing less of driving
experienced users crazy by drastically heralding in an ineffient relearning
curve for renavigating simple commands hidden by 21st century fluff.
Perhaps, the development team should have realized that this may be great for
the first time user - but, to not have available the classic menu style for
those who have been using this program for years is quite disrespectful to a
loyal user.

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[Gordon]

..

The nifty little revamping of your programs has nothing less of driving
experienced users crazy by drastically heralding in an ineffient
relearning
curve for renavigating simple commands hidden by 21st century fluff.

So when you went from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows XP to Vista, there
was NO learning curve? Vista menus are JUST like W95?

get over it.

 

[Gordon]

For most users, no.

Umm for most users YES.(I'm a Systems accountant and have had ENDLESS
trouble with users migrating from W95 to XP....)

Attitudes like that are typical of those who use only the most basic
features of the program and are not subject to deadline pressures nor
affected by the massive productivity loss that Office 2007 imposes.

Balls. I have adapted to 2007 with no more problems than that of going from
Office 2002 to office 2003....and not only am I a Systems Accountant, but
also a Management accountant and an Advanced Office user....

 

[Mark Tangard]

So when you went from Windows 95 to Windows 98 to Windows XP to Vista, there

was NO learning curve?

For most users, no.

get over it.

Attitudes like that are typical of those who use only the most basic features of
the program and are not subject to deadline pressures nor affected by the
massive productivity loss that Office 2007 imposes. Microsoft's idiotic claim
of "discoverability" is disproved daily by intermediate and power users. To
presume that millions of users (those with work to do) will blithely accept the
retaining chore because MS wants them to is the height of stupidity. The users
most affected by this don't typically have the free time to spend posting
arrogant barbs like yours, which is undoubtedly why the balance of opinion here
seems to tip toward acceptance.

There were plenty of other ways to improve Office 2003 without destroying the
familiar menus. Office 2007 is at best the corporate equivalent of a spoiled
child torturing a caged animal.

MT

 

[Gordon]

Not credible. Most ordinary users spend their time inside programs, not
in Windows components, save for regular folder windows, which have not
changed substantially since Windows 95.

And your experience with that is?

I'm not impressed by anyone who drags his credentials behind him like a
pull-toy but from your job title. I'm betting you've never been required
you to use the more advanced formatting or automation features of Word.

MT

Umm sorry, but you are WRONG and WRONG and WRONG.

 

[Mark Tangard]

Umm for most users YES.(I'm a Systems accountant and have had ENDLESS
trouble with users migrating from W95 to XP....)

Not credible. Most ordinary users spend their time inside programs, not in
Windows components, save for regular folder windows, which have not changed
substantially since Windows 95.

Balls. I have adapted to 2007 with no more problems than that of going from
Office 2002 to office 2003....and not only am I a Systems Accountant, but
also a Management accountant and an Advanced Office user....

I'm not impressed by anyone who drags his credentials behind him like a pull-toy
but from your job title. I'm betting you've never been required you to use the
more advanced formatting or automation features of Word.

MT

 

[Mark Tangard]

And your experience with that is?

Many many years as an end user and 9 years as a trainer.

Umm sorry, but you are WRONG and WRONG and WRONG.

Too childish to continue rebutting.

 

[XS11E]

Too childish to continue rebutting.

Mine's bigger than yours, mine's bigger than yours, nyah!

Mark, the ribbon is there. Learn it or use something else, OK?

FWIW, I don't much like it either, I decided to use Office 2003 instead
of 2007 but the ribbon is going to stay regardless of what we think,
why? Because the majority of users who tested Office 2007 LIKED the
ribbon, that's why.

 

[darkrats]

Why not just go to: http://www.addintools.com

Get a nice little program that gives you the option of using the old 2003
menus. The performance of this software comes pretty close to perfect. And,
it's a good example of how MS could have given us that same option, if they
had chosen to do so. You really need to check it out.

 

[Rev. Vegetable Lasagne]

I just upgraded my MS Office with the purchase of a new computer. I
wish to extend my condolences on introducing a new format which may
very well elimnate a significant experienced user base from your
product. There is a need to reconsider providing an ADD-IN for your
new MS Office 2007 programs. The nifty little revamping of your
programs has nothing less of driving experienced users crazy by
drastically heralding in an ineffient relearning curve for
renavigating simple commands hidden by 21st century fluff. Perhaps,
the development team should have realized that this may be great for
the first time user - but, to not have available the classic menu
style for those who have been using this program for years is quite
disrespectful to a loyal user.

----------------
This post is a suggestion for Microsoft, and Microsoft responds to the
suggestions with the most votes. To vote for this suggestion, click
the "I Agree" button in the message pane. If you do not see the
button, follow this link to open the suggestion in the Microsoft
Web-based Newsreader and then click "I Agree" in the message pane.

http://www.microsoft.com/office/community/en-us/default.mspx?mid=34ddda
50-de90-4ba5-99a6-f107b3e1558c&dg=microsoft.public.office.misc

I hated 2007 for the first two weeks, then the logic just fell into place.
The old menu tabs were a hodgepodge that you had to memorize because there
wasn't much logic to their location. Now everything is organized by the
activity you're in the middle of.

Some things that pisses me off though...

there is no more graphic box. You have to put the graphic into a text box
to move it around freely, have it work around text different ways, etc..

No more master slides in Power Point.

A lot of features missing in Mail Merge Word.

 

[Mark Tangard]

You have the privlege of chosing to stay with 2003. Most ordinary
office workers will not. The often-heard retort of "Then why did ya
upgrade, nobody forced you!" is myopic in the extreme.

It's debatable that an anonymous, confidential, optional information
stream describing user actions is "a majority of users." And you can
bet money that, had even 100 users been asked if they wanted to lose the
familiar menu bar, an enormous majority would have said no.

 

[Mark Tangard]

Thanks, but I've tried it, and it's inadequate for our purposes. It
restores only the default. Tried the other two third-party fixes as
well. It's admirable they were tried, but they don't cut it for power
users or customizers. There's other unrelated reasons to loathe 2007
(for one, the inflexible label sizing, the first thing that's ever made
me want reading glasses), but that's another post. Restoring a 2003
look & feel isn't the whole pie.

And yes, it was obvious even before those add-ins arrived that
Microsoft's regrets, saying its limited resources weren't enough to
preserve the classic menu, were bogus. These programs (at least two of
them from one-man shops, not sure about the one you mention) made MS's
claim all the more embarrassing & ridiculous.

MT

 

[Gordon]

You have the privlege of chosing to stay with 2003. Most ordinary office
workers will not. The often-heard retort of "Then why did ya upgrade,
nobody forced you!" is myopic in the extreme.

Not at all. In general, the IT department of the organisation makes that
decision. As a Systems Accountant, I can tell you from hard experience that
most IT departments are not USERS of applications and do not consult the
USERS when making the dcision to upgrade or not and thus it is their fault
if the company gets upgraded to something the USERS don't want.
The IT dept should ADVISE users about upgrade possibilities, but should
NEVER impose unwanted application upgrades.

 

[2007FanFoe]

them from one-man shops, not sure about the one you mention) made MS's
claim all the more embarrassing & ridiculous.

But MS does not hate these solutions. If you look for 'Menu' word on
Office Marketplace (http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/marketplace/
default.aspx), you're going to find some of them there. Inclusive
there's one that makes possible you continue to use all classic menus
and toolbars (not only the default) while teaches you the Ribbon.

 

[Mark Tangard]

Not at all. In general, the IT department of the organisation makes that
decision. As a Systems Accountant, I can tell you from hard experience that
most IT departments are not USERS of applications and do not consult the
USERS when making the dcision to upgrade or not and thus it is their fault
if the company gets upgraded to something the USERS don't want.
The IT dept should ADVISE users about upgrade possibilities, but should
NEVER impose unwanted application upgrades.

That would be ideal, but it isn't reality. It's quite true that IT guys don't
typically use the apps. It's equally true that they don't typically consult the
end users. In at least 2 firms I know of, the Big Boss simply told the IT guys
that the firm needs 2007 because it's the latest toy. He himself doesn't do
much production doesn't doesn't face deadlines, and there's no new features the
firm needs in 2007; but his decision ruled. And I'm pretty sure that's the
usual case.

 

[Mark Tangard]

2007FanFoe,

I never said Microsoft hates those solutions. You may have misread my phrase
"Microsoft's regrets" as "Microsoft regrets."

My point is this: MS claimed, usually with an oh-we're-so-sorry (regretful)
phrasing, that it didn't have the resources to offer the original menus as an
option in 2007. Yet, three tiny entities with nowhere near MS's resources have
built such a thing, so if MS had applied itself to the notion of avoiding
massive retraining, we'd probably have both options in its current product.

On the one hand we're told most users don't customize. On the other hand, until
now, vast amounts of work have obviously gone into making MS Office programs
extremely customizable. To abandon that effort, and to essentially declare that
the productivity losses for those who took advantage of it are unimportant, is
ludicrous and despicable. If there were any real competition in the types of
programs MS distributes, the obstacles presented by 2007 would cause it to lose
huge chunks of its market share, or more likely, would never have been advanced.

 

[XS11E]

That would be ideal, but it isn't reality. It's quite true that
IT guys don't typically use the apps. It's equally true that they
don't typically consult the end users. In at least 2 firms I know
of, the Big Boss simply told the IT guys that the firm needs 2007
because it's the latest toy. He himself doesn't do much
production doesn't doesn't face deadlines, and there's no new
features the firm needs in 2007; but his decision ruled. And I'm
pretty sure that's the usual case.

You couldn't prove it by me, I used Office XP at work because some kind
soul donated it and, as is typical of non-profit corporations, they
couldn't afford to update.

I'd bet budget concerns are the usual case for any company.