Database corruption after successful rebuild

H

Hartvik

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: Intel

After receiving an error message saying that my database was corrupt, I opened Database Utility and went through a rebuild that completed successfully. Upon restarting Entourage, I immediately get the same error message. I tried to verify the db and get the following ERROR: Corruption detected on index [CTRC:1]What could cause this, and what should I do?
 
D

Diane Ross

After receiving an error message saying that my database was corrupt, I opened
Database Utility and went through a rebuild that completed successfully. Upon
restarting Entourage, I immediately get the same error message. I tried to
verify the db and get the following ERROR: Corruption detected on index
[CTRC:1]What could cause this, and what should I do?

Have never seen this error reported before. In addition, no one knows
exactly what causes the rebuild to fail.

Try this. Open the backup Identity that was created. If it opens, then you
can manually move your data out and start a new Identity.

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/install/manual_install.html>

If it does not open, see my explanation in subject: REBUILDING DATABASE
RESULTS IN ERROR MESSAGE - WHAT NOW? posted today.
 
H

Hartvik

Thank you for the answer.

I can add a little more info:
I did a second rebuild, which – again – completed successfully and restarted Entourage. Same error message: For now I've just ignored the error message (canceled out of the dialogue) and everything seems to be working as usual. I did this knowing that I have good back up's (Time Machine and SuperDuper)that I can go back to should something happen. It struck me that this could possibly be Time Machine related? My external disk was full this morning and Time Machine was interrupted and had to delete the oldest back up's.
 
B

Barry Wainwright

Thank you for the answer.

I can add a little more info:
I did a second rebuild, which – again – completed successfully and restarted Entourage. Same error message: For now I've just ignored the error message (canceled out of the dialogue) and everything seems to be working as usual. I did this knowing that I have good back up's (Time Machine and SuperDuper)that I can go back to should something happen. It struck me that this could possibly be Time Machine related? My external disk was full this morning and Time Machine was interrupted and had to delete the oldest back up's.

just be warned that Time Machine backups of the entourage database are
not always reliable! Because the copy of the database is taken while it
is in use, there is a risk that the data is not fully written out to
disk from memory when the backup is taken.
 
K

Kerry

Barry what you say is theoretically true. However, I have reverted
numerous times to Time Machine backups of the Entourage active
identity and I have never once encountered a problem. Plus, they have
really saved my bacon. If I hadn't had these I could have lost a ton
of work whereas with these backups I only might have lost a few
entries based on how far I had to go back in time to find a good DB.
 
B

Barry Wainwright

Kerry said:
Barry what you say is theoretically true. However, I have reverted
numerous times to Time Machine backups of the Entourage active
identity and I have never once encountered a problem. Plus, they have
really saved my bacon. If I hadn't had these I could have lost a ton
of work whereas with these backups I only might have lost a few
entries based on how far I had to go back in time to find a good DB.

Agreed, it is not 0% reliable, but neither is it 1200% reliable.

There is a degree of risk, how much risk you are prepared to accept
depends on how critical the data is. Be assured, if the data is
supremely critical, then Murphy will ensure that it will be
unrecoverable just when you need it most!
 
D

Diane Ross

Barry Wainwright said:
There is a degree of risk, how much risk you are prepared to accept
depends on how critical the data is. Be assured, if the data is
supremely critical, then Murphy will ensure that it will be
unrecoverable just when you need it most!

On top of that you are taxing you system every hour to do the complete
database copy.

Using Time Machine to backup your data hourly is like pi**ing in the wind.
You can do a once a day backup using this alternative method.

Alternative method to use Entourage and Time Machine (does a once a day or
whatever time period you select) This quits Entourage and the Microsoft
Database daemon allowing for once a day backup into Time Machine.

<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/01/alternative_method_to_use_entourage_
and_time_machine.html>

<http://tinyurl.com/9vgxvp>
 
D

Diane Ross

I did a second rebuild, which – again – completed successfully and restarted
Entourage. Same error message: For now I've just ignored the error message
(canceled out of the dialogue) and everything seems to be working as usual. I
did this knowing that I have good back up's (Time Machine and SuperDuper)that
I can go back to should something happen. It struck me that this could
possibly be Time Machine related? My external disk was full this morning and
Time Machine was interrupted and had to delete the oldest back up's.

False backup could be a result of a corrupted preference, bad RAM or low
disk space.

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/troubleshoot/crashes.html#crash9>

Barry gave you good advice. It's so good I'm going to repeat it.

It's advised not to let Time Machine backup your Entourage database. If the
database is copied while being used, the backup could be corrupt. You can
set the Time Machine to exclude the Microsoft User Data folder and create an
iCal event to copy it over at night while not in use so you get one backup
daily in Time Machine.

Alternative method to use Entourage and Time Machine (does a once a day or
whatever time period you select)

<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/01/alternative_method_to_use_entourage_
and_time_machine.html>

Entourage and Time Machine (creates chronological backup of Identity can be
used by both Tiger and Leopard)

<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/01/entourage_and_time_machine.html>
 
K

Kerry

LOL! 1200%. Where do I sign up. Anyway, I've had tons of trouble with
Entourage but really only with sync - nothing else - but I've never
had a failed backup. Thinking about it though my BlackBerry might just
be 1200%. Its never failed, crashed or made an error in a year of use.
Hmmm! And the same goes for my PVR and Apple TV. Things are looking
good. The glass is half full LOL!
 
H

Hartvik

Thank you for the advise regarding back up routines; I have at times before excluded the Main Identity folder from Time Machine exactly because of resource depletion (backing up a full 5Gb because of one new incoming mail isn't very efficient). However, it had been turned back on lately. I was (and am) still covered by my daily SuperDuper back up. But this string does not really address my initial question: I do the rebuild, it is confirmed completed successfully, but when I start Entourage the next time, I still get the same error message. I can open both the new rebuild and the back up identity without apparent problems (aside from the error message) and nothing seems to be wrong when in use. In your intital reply (if I read it correctly) you suggest that I make an .rge of the back up identity (?) and do a manual import of that into a new identity. That seems to be quite time consuming (especially with the plethora of local folders I have got things in – I'm good at keeping my inbox clean and the stuff in our exchange server at a minimum level). Exactly why would this be a good solution? I would have thought that it'd make more sense to make an .rge archive of the new rebuilt database, perhaps even just reinstall Entourage and then replace the new main identity with the one rebuilt?
 
D

Diane Ross

Thank you for the advise regarding back up routines; I have at times before
excluded the Main Identity folder from Time Machine exactly because of
resource depletion (backing up a full 5Gb because of one new incoming mail
isn't very efficient). However, it had been turned back on lately.

It's a huge waste to do it. I don't know how else to say "it's not
recommended!"

I was (and
am) still covered by my daily SuperDuper back up. But this string does not
really address my initial question: I do the rebuild, it is confirmed
completed successfully, but when I start Entourage the next time, I still get
the same error message.

Sometimes the rebuild utility is just plain wrong when it confirms completed
successfully.
I can open both the new rebuild and the back up
identity without apparent problems (aside from the error message) and nothing
seems to be wrong when in use. In your intital reply (if I read it correctly)
you suggest that I make an .rge of the back up identity (?) and do a manual
import of that into a new identity. That seems to be quite time consuming
(especially with the plethora of local folders I have got things in – I'm good
at keeping my inbox clean and the stuff in our exchange server at a minimum
level). Exactly why would this be a good solution? I would have thought that
it'd make more sense to make an .rge archive of the new rebuilt database,
perhaps even just reinstall Entourage and then replace the new main identity
with the one rebuilt?

For Exchange just create a new Identity and let Entourage sync back up. You
did not select what type account in your initial question. If you have other
accounts, you will need to export that data. You could use the MBOX method
for your messages.

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: Intel
 
K

Kerry

It's a huge waste to do it. I don't know how else to say "it's not
recommended!"

Honestly, I don't know who is recommending this. Certainly not Apple
nor do i think Microsoft. This issue is very dependent on two things:

1. The size of your active identity. If it is very large then you will
burn up your backup space fast. If you keep the main identity lean
through archiving then it shouldn't be much of an issue especially
when you look at the size of backup drives now and their cost (not
much for 500 megs or 1T)

2. What's more important - your data or the space you use. If you are
using Ent08 you need backups as it will probably get messed up
especially if you sync to say a handheld. In my case, my data is
critical and some entries lost is not the end of the world but if it
is a newly entered contact and I've thrown away the business card (I
don't do that anymore since I've gone to ENT08) then it is not good.

In terms of rebuild, I'm not sure if you are aware but this is a known
issue to Microsoft. Rebuilds can fail and Microsoft is aware of the
problem and they are trying to figure out why this is happening in 08.
You cannot rely on rebuilds. This is why backups are essential.
Exporting data, in my case, is a non-starter from the get go. Much of
my stuff in Entourage is categorized, linked and is often part of a
project. I can't loose this and it takes a ton of time to make sure
this is all properly created. Finally, I'd really phone Microsoft tech
support and tell them my database won't properly rebuild. Let them try
to solve it. If you've used your two incident reports and they can't
resolve it (and I bet they won't be able to as it is a known issue)
you don't pay and that incident now remains a closed but an active
incident and even when it expires after 30 days they'll just create a
new incident # to discuss this with you further. I have an incident
that I opened on Jan 24 08 around sync services which I still use to
this day.

I would do what it takes to ensure your data/information is safe and
not worry about a few gigs of backup storage being used. Also, if you
don't use Entourage in the way I use it (links, projects,
categorization, sophisticated searches which are saved for future use)
look at alternatives and the most obvious is the Apple apps including
iWork. In fact, due to these very problems Microsoft has on more than
one occasion suggested I use an alternative until they fix these
problems (they have no idea when or if this will happen). Also,
backups of these apps is quite different than Entourage as Entourage
is a monolithic DB and these are not. You could always revert to 04
but this has issues too and when the next version of OSX comes out it
looks as if it will be Intel only (I don't think it is expected to
work with PowerPC apps which 04).
 
K

Kerry

(not
much for 500 megs or 1T)

Meant 500 gigs. Big whoops! This would be a bit costly at 500 megs :)
 
H

Hartvik

Hi all, and thank you for the responses.
Thought I'd just share what I found to be my (apparent) solution:
I read somewhere that recurring error messages actually could be a problem with the error message system and not necessarily what the message is about. So I decided to give it a try and deleted the relevant .plist files (reminders and error reporting) - and sure enough: Since doing that - no more claims of corrupted database and everything seems to work fine.
 
K

Kerry

Hi all, and thank you for the responses.
Thought I'd just share what I found to be my (apparent) solution:
I read somewhere that recurring error messages actually could be a problem with the error message system and not necessarily what the message is about. So I decided to give it a try and deleted the relevant .plist files (reminders and error reporting) - and sure enough: Since doing that - no more claims of corrupted database and everything seems to work fine.

Interesting. I'll try this the next time I try a rebuild. However,
I've found after a rebuild that I might either get a situation where
the new DB just won't open or it opens fine (after a verify reports no
problem) but something just isn't working properly. As an example,
after the last time I did a rebuild I kept getting a parse error in my
e-mail account for Google. I just reverted to a backup and that error
was gone. I'm not sure how deleting these files would resolve that but
who knows. Anyway, I don't do a rebuild unless the Daemon reports an
error. I'll try rebuild first but if that doesn't work (which I tend
to find it doesn't) I just revert to a backup.
 
D

Diane Ross

Kerry said:
I've found after a rebuild that I might either get a situation where
the new DB just won't open or it opens fine

After importing an older version to Entourage 2008, users have experienced
database corruption. Rebuild does not seem to help. In these cases you need
to manually move to a new Identity. Once you do then your database should be
extremely stable. It's something in the import process that just doesn't
seem to clear up.

How to manually move your data. (when import fails and/or you need to move
to a new Identity same version or revert to an older version)

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/install/manual_install.html>
 
K

Kerry

After importing an older version to Entourage 2008, users have experienced
database corruption. Rebuild does not seem to help. In these cases you need
to manually move to a new Identity. Once you do then your database shouldbe
extremely stable. It's something in the import process that just doesn't
seem to clear up.

How to manually move your data. (when import fails and/or you need to move
to a new Identity same version or revert to an older version)

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/install/manual_install.html>

Yes, I suppose this is true but I wouldn't count on an extremely
stable DB. My ENT08 DB was based on a new, empty Identity after I
purchased 08 on Jan 15, 08. My archive DB holds on my Entourage
information going back to March 2003 with some of that information in
there being based on archives on the 08 active identity. There is only
one problem with Entourage that vexes me (other users have various
problems) and that has to do with sync and sync services and this can
cause either data corruptions, data loss etc however, my identity has
corrupted on more than one occasion however, I have no idea if this is
to do with the sync issue. Regardless, the DB has corrupted and of
course my first course of action was to verify the DB and if it
reported that it wasn't working properly I then did a rebuild. This is
when I first encountered a problem with the rebuild database not
working properly. Since I'm a long term user of Entourage I didn't
even bother to look at the support forums to see if I was doing
anything wrong but rather called Microsoft. The tech rep was
immediately aware of the problem, had already dealt with calls on the
issue that day, identified that this is a known issue to Microsoft and
indicated they are trying to figure out what's wrong but at that point
they didn't know. Since I haven't seen a update that specifies a fix
for the issue nor has there been an update in while, the issue still
exists. A recent attempt at a rebuild that resulted in an issue in the
rebuilt DB told me there are still issues. I have repeatedly suggested
that the prudent thing for any Entourage user to do is ensure they
have backups. Also, it is probably advisable, especially until we see
resolution to the many issues in 08, especially the significant ones,
to have relatively lean databases. Not only does this reduce the
potential for corruption but it is also more efficient. Since so much
of my work involves extensive categorization, linking and ongoing
projects, I can't afford to break all this by either say having iCal
and Address book overwrite an existing identity or a new identity in
Entourage or bringing raw data back in to an identity. Therefore, I
just revert to an uncorrupted backup identity wherein I may only loose
a few items (in IT though this is considered totally unacceptable - I
could not say to a banking client well we'll just revert to a previous
version of your SQL database but you'll loose only a few entries (yeah
right!!! - end of my career)).

There is, of course, one other approach that we can take and that is
to move to something entirely different if we don't need the
functionality of Entourage and many users have done this - move to the
Apple apps or something else such as Daylite or Contactizer or even
move to Outlook running in Parallels if you don't mind split data
between Entourage and Outlook. I've tried these but return to
Entourage for its functionality and I don't want my data split and
since I work for myself, I can work with my workarounds as annoying as
this is. I'd just love Microsoft to get Entourage fixed as I think its
an excellent product but database corruption and sync issues,
considering the world is going mobile faster than we can snap a finger
(reference Nokia's sharp reduction in revenue due to their inability
to provide a robust Smartphone platform that can compete with the
BlackBerry and iPhone) just really aren't acceptable but well this is
Microsoft....!!!
 

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