Database Design Tools

[Thomas Kroljic]

All,
I was wondering if folks use 3rd party ERD programs to help them design
their databases. If so, what products do they use? I am currently reviewing
a product from Chilli Source called DDS-Lite.

Any comments would be helpful.
Thank you,
Thomas J. Kroljic

 

[Vincent Johns]

All,
I was wondering if folks use 3rd party ERD programs to help them design
their databases. If so, what products do they use? I am currently reviewing
a product from Chilli Source called DDS-Lite.

Any comments would be helpful.
Thank you,
Thomas J. Kroljic

I don't have a direct answer to your question (knowing nothing about
DDS-Lite), and perhaps DDS-Lite will do a great job for you... but what
comes to my mind from what you ask is to wonder what activities the
program will do for you that will make your design job easier.

Most of the work of designing a database consists (IMHO) of ascertaining
how the database will model some part of your real world. Not only will
each field in a Table need to represent something meaningful, but the
relationships among Tables will also need to represent meaningful
real-world relationships, and the Queries should display meaningful
results, and each Report should make sense, etc. I rarely have enough
repetitive, routine work to do in setting up a database that a 3rd-party
tool would save me much effort. If DDS-Lite presents you with a
pretty-much-complete database design that you can modify to suit your
needs and then maintain using the native MS Access tools, that might be
pretty useful; but if you have to go through DDS-Lite also to make all
changes to the database, you might find that it gets in the way. Even
with an already-defined set of Tables that you can modify yourself (such
as Northwind Traders, which Microsoft supplies with Access as an
example), you'll have to verify that those Tables, Queries, &c., really
do the kinds of things you want to do, and that verification will take a
certain amount of effort.

-- Vincent Johns <[email protected]>
Please feel free to quote anything I say here.

 

[Thomas Kroljic]

Vincent,
Thanks for your reply. Is it safe to say that you do not use anything
outside of Access to help you design (layout your tables and relationships)?

DDS-Lite allows you to build your ERD and then create an Access Database.
Once the database is created, you can make all of your changes in Access if
you wish. Obviously, Access will not update you ERD file.

I was just curious to see if other programmers/developers use ERD modeling
tools to help them with their database design before opening up Access.
I guess building your tables within Access and then using the Relationship
window can do the same job if the JET database is your target DB.

Thomas j. Kroljic

 

[Jeff Boyce]

Thomas

No need to limit your target back-end database to JET. Consider using
Access to design your relational database structure (as it sounds like you
now use another ERD product).

When you are satisfied that the structure and data are working as you
expect, you can decide whether your security, data volume, user volume,
transaction vs. lookup mix warrant a more robust back-end than JET. If you
do decide to migrate to a SQL-Server-like back-end, there may be application
changes you'd need to make in Access.

 

[Vincent Johns]

Vincent,
Thanks for your reply. Is it safe to say that you do not use anything
outside of Access to help you design (layout your tables and relationships)?

That's true for me, but it's kind of immaterial for you -- you should
use what works best for you. (I've sometimes written VBA code to create
Tables, etc., but normally do that using Access's Database Window.)

DDS-Lite allows you to build your ERD and then create an Access Database.
Once the database is created, you can make all of your changes in Access if
you wish. Obviously, Access will not update you ERD file.

Then at least DDS-Lite will not get in your way. My guess is that using
a tool like that, if you have to create new database files frequently,
can help you standardize the database structures (all would be
compatible with what DDS-Lite sets up), and might save you time. The
downside would be having to learn how to use the tool (I assume you've
already done so) and the extra expense of buying licenses.

I was just curious to see if other programmers/developers use ERD modeling
tools to help them with their database design before opening up Access.
I guess building your tables within Access and then using the Relationship
window can do the same job if the JET database is your target DB.

Thomas j. Kroljic

One big advantage of modeling tools in general (I can't comment on this
one) is that they can hide some of the irrelevant details and let you
focus on the problem at hand, saving time and giving a potentially
cleaner solution to your problem. (But you or someone in your
organization might still need to understand the details of how to
maintain an Access database.)

-- Vincent Johns <[email protected]>
Please feel free to quote anything I say here.

 

[John Vinson]

I was just curious to see if other programmers/developers use ERD modeling
tools to help them with their database design before opening up Access.
I guess building your tables within Access and then using the Relationship
window can do the same job if the JET database is your target DB.

That's been my experience. There are things I dislike about the
relationships window as a tool, but it has been adequate for me.

John W. Vinson[MVP]

 

[Thomas Kroljic]

Jeff,
Thanks for your input. I think I'm blowing this process, step, way out of
proportion. Even though I think I have a fairly above average Database
design for one of my clients, I thought using something other than the
Access relationship window would help me not only design a better database
(currently in the process of redesigning the above mentioned DB) but I
thought it would help my show the client how I see thier business
procedures/process and how they relate to each other.

Thanks,
Thomas j. Kroljic

 

[Thomas Kroljic]

Vincent,
Thanks for your reply. I just started using DDS-Lite (I stepped through
their tutorials twice). I both it would be helpful in designing databases,
especially the ability to show my clients how I see their busiess
procedures/processes and how they relate.
I guess it comes down to whatever you are comfortable with. I'm quite
sure I can continue to use Access' Relationship window and still get the
client to feel good that I fully understand his business needs.

I was curious to see what other Access (JET) developers use.

 

[Amy Blankenship]

I usually use Word for this. Some clients find it useful if you write up a
real-world scenario and show how that scenario would play out in "paper"
tables.

HTH;

Amy

 

[Jeff Boyce]

Thomas

I find that very few of my customers understand or appreciate an ER
diagram -- it isn't a way many of them view their world.
Object-relationship modeling seems to work better to fit with something they
know.

 

[Thomas Kroljic]

Jeff,
I agree with what you're saying. I find it easier at times to depict the
processes that I see and show this to the client then an ERD printout.
Again, thanks for your thoughts in this matter.

 

[Thomas Kroljic]

Amy,
I hear what you're saying. Could you possible send me an example of what
you present to your clients?
I'd love to see what someone else creates for their client.

 

[Amy Blankenship]

Sure, no problem. The best example I have comes from a client who still
owes me many $$$, so no ethical issue there

On its way.

-Amy