Deploying Access 2007 to PCs with older versions of Office

[Joe A]

Sorry for re-posting but, I have 10 years of development invested in an
Access App which I sell by allowing the public to download the msi from my
web site. The App expires after 30 days or they can buy it. I can not
figure out how to deploy my App
now that Vista and Office 2007 exist on the public's PCs.

Currently the App is Access 2003 (mdb BE & mde FE) and the msi is created
using the MS Developer Extensions Packaging Wizard for Access 2003. The msi
creates a shortcut on the users desktop and installs Access 2003 runtime. If
the customer has Vista, the customer must right click the shortcut that is
installed on their desktop and select "Run as Administrator" in order for the
app to run without errors. (The mde FE is installed in the users C:\Program
Files folder with is read only in Vista.) New users don't know to do this so
they don't buy my App. Obvious problem. The 2003 Packaging Wizard can not
install the App into the users profile.

I thought Access 2007 was the answer to my problem! The Access 2007
Packaging Wizard CAN install to the Users Profile/Documents folder which
solves the above problem. A New user can double click the desktop shortcut
without problems. Thus I now work on my FE.mdb in Access 2007 and create an
mde file. I package the mde file with the Access 2007 Packaging Wizard to
create an msi which includes the Access 2007 runtime. Works fine but here's
the remaining problem...

1) Many potential clients have Office 2003 (or earlier) on their PCs. When
they switch between running my App (Acesss 2007 runtime) and their older
office programs, the installer has to run (takes forever) and sometimes gives
errors.

2) KB 928091 discusses issues if multiple versions of office are on the same
PC. I can not control the order that Offices are installed nor can I control
the automatic updating of these versions.

Can anyone help? How do I install my Access App on any PC regardless of OS
or version of office, and have a clean running App without user or IT
intervention? I feel boxed in a corner and ready to throw away my business
and 10 years of development work. Please help if you can.

 

[Armen Stein]

Can anyone help? How do I install my Access App on any PC regardless of OS
or version of office, and have a clean running App without user or IT
intervention? I feel boxed in a corner and ready to throw away my business
and 10 years of development work. Please help if you can.

We use SageKey scripts to build the MSIs for Access 2003 runtime
installs. We have successfully installed on Vista 32 bit and Vista 64
bit. We found that the extra cost for SageKey was worth it.

Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP
www.JStreetTech.com

 

[Joe A]

Armen,

Thank you for your reply. I'm not familiar with SageKey scripts but I will
certainly look into it. My concern is... Most new PCs come with Vista &
Office 2007 preinstalled. if you then install Access 2003 runtime on this PC
you bump into the following 2 issues.

1) When you switch between running your App (Access 2003 runtime) and some
other App using Access 2007, the windows installer has to run (slow but
livable) and sometimes gives errors. (see below Error 2711)

2) KB 928091 discusses issues if multiple versions of office are on the same
PC. They must be installed in the correct order (older version of Office to
newer version of Office). If the PC comes from the manufacturer with Office
2007, you can never install your 2003 App in the correct order. This article
also says that windows Updates to Office must also be installed in the
correct order. I can not control the order that versions of Office are
installed nor can I control
the order of automatic updating of these versions.

One of my test PCs is Vista Business with factory installed Office 2007.
After running the msi for my current App which installs Access 2003 runtime
and then switching between an App that uses Access 2007 vs my App that uses
Access 2003 runtime, I get the following error when launching an Access 2007
App:

Error 2711. An internal error has occured. (ACCESSRTNonBootFiles )

When I searched for this error on-line one tech said he solved it by
uninstalling both versions of office and reinstalling them in the correct
order. This will not be acceptable when a customer downloads my App for
consideration of purchasing it.

Do you think your SageKey Packaging program can solve these types of issues?
Do you find the installations to work reliably when installed by
non-technical users?

Thank you so much in advance for your thoughts on this. I'm desparate to
resolve this & appreciate your help.

Joe A

 

[Armen Stein]

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 18:15:02 -0700, Joe A

Hi Joe,

Thank you for your reply. I'm not familiar with SageKey scripts but I will
certainly look into it. My concern is... Most new PCs come with Vista &
Office 2007 preinstalled. if you then install Access 2003 runtime on this PC
you bump into the following 2 issues.

1) When you switch between running your App (Access 2003 runtime) and some
other App using Access 2007, the windows installer has to run (slow but
livable) and sometimes gives errors. (see below Error 2711)

I think this is going to happen regardless, but I haven't heard that
our customers have had the errors you mention.

2) KB 928091 discusses issues if multiple versions of office are on the same
PC. They must be installed in the correct order (older version of Office to
newer version of Office). If the PC comes from the manufacturer with Office
2007, you can never install your 2003 App in the correct order. This article
also says that windows Updates to Office must also be installed in the
correct order. I can not control the order that versions of Office are
installed nor can I control
the order of automatic updating of these versions.

Of course not - see below. But I think there may be an issue with
updating the Access 2003 runtime engine with service packs. I've read
other threads that indicate that the runtime will not be updated
automatically - you would have to package up and send out another
install.

One of my test PCs is Vista Business with factory installed Office 2007.
After running the msi for my current App which installs Access 2003 runtime
and then switching between an App that uses Access 2007 vs my App that uses
Access 2003 runtime, I get the following error when launching an Access 2007
App:

Error 2711. An internal error has occured. (ACCESSRTNonBootFiles )

When I searched for this error on-line one tech said he solved it by
uninstalling both versions of office and reinstalling them in the correct
order. This will not be acceptable when a customer downloads my App for
consideration of purchasing it.

I agree, that's not acceptable.

Do you think your SageKey Packaging program can solve these types of issues?
Do you find the installations to work reliably when installed by
non-technical users?

Well, SageKey is another company's product - we just use it. Plenty
of non-technical users install our desktop application which uses the
Access 2003 runtime. I'm not the expert in our shop on this, but my
understanding is that once adjusted for Vista, the installs work fine.
And I'm sure some of our customers must have Office 2007 already
loaded. I suggest you contact SageKey and see how they address your
concerns. Maybe they have a guarantee or free trial.

Thank you so much in advance for your thoughts on this. I'm desparate to
resolve this & appreciate your help.

I understand - I hope you find something that works for you.

Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP
www.JStreetTech.com

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

But I think there may be an issue with
updating the Access 2003 runtime engine with service packs. I've read
other threads that indicate that the runtime will not be updated
automatically - you would have to package up and send out another
install.

That has been fixed in the last year or so. Microsoft Update now
finds the A2003 runtime with no service pack installed and updates it
to, currently, SP3.

That said you can include SP3 and hot fixes in the runtime if so
desired. See the section titled
Q: How can I include SP3 and the combo box hotfix in the Access 2003
runtime?
http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/developereditionfaq.htm

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

Sorry for re-posting but, I have 10 years of development invested in an
Access App which I sell by allowing the public to download the msi from my
web site. The App expires after 30 days or they can buy it. I can not
figure out how to deploy my App
now that Vista and Office 2007 exist on the public's PCs.

Sample inno script which checks to see if a version of Access is
installed. If not it tells you to install a runtime version of
Access. If installed then it continues to install your FE MDE and
other assorted files.
http://groups.google.com/group/microsoft.public.access/msg/10e3fc9234660872?hl=en

Sample inno script which "wraps" the package wizard install into a
single .exe
http://groups.google.com/group/comp.databases.ms-access/msg/4aa1b33a191bf1f8?hl=en

The idea being that if the user already has a version of Access
installed then why install it another time. Which can be quite
troublesome.

BTW I distribute my apps as A2000 MDEs.

Note that a bit of fiddling is required to remove the Access 2007
ribbon from the A2000 MDE when running under Access 2007.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

Sample inno script which checks to see if a version of Access is
installed. If not it tells you to install a runtime version of
Access. If installed then it continues to install your FE MDE and
other assorted files.

Note that I ship an A2000 MDE so any version of Access 2000 or newer
including A2007, retail or runtime will run my app.

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

Sorry for re-posting but, I have 10 years of development invested in an
Access App which I sell by allowing the public to download the msi from my
web site. The App expires after 30 days or they can buy it.

Tools available from sites such as sysinternals.com can crack any
method you use to store a future date anywhere on a system such as in
the registry or a file. Unless it's encrypted. But even then if you
delete the date from wherever it's stored your app may think it's just
installed.

Thus I prefer to limit the number of records in one key table such as
5 units or 50 volunteers but allow unlimited access for everything
else. Once I get paid then I email them an encrypted file containing
the number of records they are licensed for as well as their company
name which goes on the bottom of every page of every report and
frequently used forms.

For more of my thoughts on this topic see the "Copy protection or how
to safely distribute a demo Microsoft Access Application" page at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/access/demo.htm

Tony
--
Tony Toews, Microsoft Access MVP
Please respond only in the newsgroups so that others can
read the entire thread of messages.
Microsoft Access Links, Hints, Tips & Accounting Systems at
http://www.granite.ab.ca/accsmstr.htm
Tony's Microsoft Access Blog - http://msmvps.com/blogs/access/

 

[Armen Stein]

That has been fixed in the last year or so. Microsoft Update now
finds the A2003 runtime with no service pack installed and updates it
to, currently, SP3.

Right, thanks Tony.

What about hotfixes? Do you have a documented approach for applying
them to A2003 runtimes? Or does the install just seek out and replace
the right components regardless of Retail or Runtime?

Armen Stein
Microsoft Access MVP
www.JStreetTech.com

 

[Tony Toews [MVP]]

Right, thanks Tony.

What about hotfixes? Do you have a documented approach for applying
them to A2003 runtimes?

Hot fixes can be included as well. More info in that section.

Or does the install just seek out and replace
the right components regardless of Retail or Runtime?

I'm not sure what happens if the A2003 runtime install is attempted on
a system with A2003 retail. I suspect it wouldn't bother installing.

Tony

 

[Joe A]

Tony & Armen,

Thank you both for your assistance with this. The SageKey scripts do seem
to solve all my issues but is a pricey solution. And Tony's suggestions give
me a bit more work but sound like they would solve my issues as well.

Thank you both.

Joe A