Difference between

[Jan Il]

Hi all! PPT 2002, and WinME

At the risk of appearing totally hollow between the ears,
as I will now be working between PPT and Corel Draw GS11,
I would truly apprecaite it if someone would explain the
exact difference between CMYK and RGB, and what the
effects are. I have read and reviewed various posts in
both NG's on this, but, I just can't seem to get just what
one does in which program that is different.

If there is a tutorial on this to explain all the details
and how they affect one format from the other I would be
most grateful. Also, how this would work in Visio. It
would save time at PPT Live, so I can bend the ears of the
Help Center staff on more important matters. ;-))

Best regards,
Jan

 

[TAJ Simmons]

CMYK,
Cyan Magenta, Yellow, BlacK
Designed for print, as that's what printers use for printing.

You start off with a white page...you add the 4 colors above to make all the
colors available.

RGB
Red Green Blue
Designed for screen, as that's what screens use for displaying anything

You start off with a black screen...you add the 3 colors above to make all
the colors available.



In short if you are using powerpoint and corel draw for
presentations....stick to RGB.


If you are designing something in Corel Draw that will be sent to a printer
(And by printer I mean a proper printing house...and not that thing attached
to your computer)...then stick to CMYK.

If you are using powerpoint to print to your own printer (the one connected
to your computer), then it really does not matter if you use RGB or HSL

Cheers
TAJ Simmons
microsoft powerpoint mvp

awesome - powerpoint backgrounds,
free sample templates, tutorials, hints and tips etc
http://www.powerpointbackgrounds.com

 

[Steve Rindsberg, PPTMVP]

At the risk of appearing totally hollow between the ears,

as I will now be working between PPT and Corel Draw GS11,
I would truly apprecaite it if someone would explain the
exact difference between CMYK and RGB, and what the
effects are.

For your purposes, it's easy, Ma'am. Use RGB. PPT don't know nuffin' from
CMYK.
Anything you do in CMYK will get converted to RGB, either on export from
Draw or on import to PPT, and since that can distort the colors, you're best
off sticking with RGB in Draw to start with.

RGB is a way of specifying colors based on their red, green and blue
components and it's also how your monitor creates color.

CMYK is another way of specifying colors, but it's based on the Cyan,
Magenta, Yellow and Black (K instead of B to avoid confusion with Blue) inks
that printing presses and some color printers use.

Draw's default will be CMYK. Whack it upside the head.
Once you start using RGB, it will also by default do color correction- ie,
it'll try to show you on screen what your RGB colors will look like when
printed to some mystical CMYK device.
Whack it upside the head again. You're not printing to a CMYK device,
you're PowerPointing. Your RGB Draw colors will stay RGB in PPT. No need
for color management.
Choose Tools, Color Management. In the Style dropdown, pick Color
Management Off, then click OK.

To verify: Draw a rectangle or something then use the paint bucket tool to
bring up the Uniform fill dialog. Choose the RGB model, set the color to 0
red, 0 green, 255 blue. First check: is it a bright PPT background-looking
blue or is it kinda purplish? If purplish, color management is on. Get out
the byte bat. Second check: change the color model to CMYK. It should now
be 100 Cyan, 100 Magenta, zeros from there on down. If it's something else,
or if 100/100/0/0 converts back to anything but 0/0/255 RGB when you change
it back to RGB, go upside its pate.

If there is a tutorial on this to explain all the details
and how they affect one format from the other I would be
most grateful. Also, how this would work in Visio.

Visio doesn't speak CMYK either, does it?

would save time at PPT Live, so I can bend the ears of the
Help Center staff on more important matters. ;-))

Like "What kind of beer can I buy you next?"

I'm reserving you a chair of your own. ;-)

 

[Jan Il]

Hi TAJ!

CMYK,
Cyan Magenta, Yellow, BlacK
Designed for print, as that's what printers use for printing.

You start off with a white page...you add the 4 colors above to make all the
colors available.

RGB
Red Green Blue
Designed for screen, as that's what screens use for displaying anything

You start off with a black screen...you add the 3 colors above to make all
the colors available.



In short if you are using powerpoint and corel draw for
presentations....stick to RGB.


If you are designing something in Corel Draw that will be sent to a printer
(And by printer I mean a proper printing house...and not that thing attached
to your computer)...then stick to CMYK.

If you are using powerpoint to print to your own printer (the one connected
to your computer), then it really does not matter if you use RGB or HSL

I see. Thank you very much for your input TAJ, I really appreciate it. Not
being familiar with the ins and outs between the two programs just yet, I
was not sure what applied to which.

Jan

 

[Jan Il]

Hi Steve!

For your purposes, it's easy, Ma'am. Use RGB. PPT don't know nuffin' from
CMYK.
Anything you do in CMYK will get converted to RGB, either on export from
Draw or on import to PPT, and since that can distort the colors, you're best
off sticking with RGB in Draw to start with.
'k..

RGB is a way of specifying colors based on their red, green and blue
components and it's also how your monitor creates color.

CMYK is another way of specifying colors, but it's based on the Cyan,
Magenta, Yellow and Black (K instead of B to avoid confusion with Blue) inks
that printing presses and some color printers use.
Understood...

Draw's default will be CMYK. Whack it upside the head.
Once you start using RGB, it will also by default do color correction- ie,
it'll try to show you on screen what your RGB colors will look like when
printed to some mystical CMYK device.
Whack it upside the head again. You're not printing to a CMYK device,
you're PowerPointing. Your RGB Draw colors will stay RGB in PPT. No need
for color management.
Choose Tools, Color Management. In the Style dropdown, pick Color
Management Off, then click OK.
Done...

To verify: Draw a rectangle or something then use the paint bucket tool to
bring up the Uniform fill dialog. Choose the RGB model, set the color to 0
red, 0 green, 255 blue. First check: is it a bright PPT background-looking
blue or is it kinda purplish? If purplish, color management is on. Get out
the byte bat. Second check: change the color model to CMYK. It should now
be 100 Cyan, 100 Magenta, zeros from there on down. If it's something else,
or if 100/100/0/0 converts back to anything but 0/0/255 RGB when you change
it back to RGB, go upside its pate.

'k...flyswatter is on sight and at the ready.....

Visio doesn't speak CMYK either, does it?

Ahm...I dunno??? We have not conversed in about two years up until now..so
I have no idea how much...eh...'B'..it's been fed since then by those who
only want to send you the very best. I'll have to brush up on my V lingo
again.

Like "What kind of beer can I buy you next?"

I'm reserving you a chair of your own. ;-)

??? Well...what can I say...some people are just naturally gluttons for
punishment... ;-)))






BTW...does the chair have my name on it....??? I mean, just so I know which
one is mine...?

 

[Steve Rindsberg, PPTMVP]

Like "What kind of beer can I buy you next?"

Hmm....good point.....

Close. Make it "good pint" and you have a deal.

BTW...does the chair have my name on it....??? I mean, just so I know which
one is mine...?

It's the one you'll be sitting in.

 

[Kathryn Jacobs]

I'll make a sign for her chair.... It'll be movable so it can go from
session to session to dinner to help desk to....

--
Kathryn Jacobs, Microsoft PPT MVP
If this helped you, please take the time to rate the value of this post:
http://rate.affero.net/jacobskl/
Get PowerPoint answers at http://www.powerpointanswers.com
Cook anything outdoors with http://www.outdoorcook.com
Kathy is a trainer, writer, Girl Scout, and whatever else there is time for
I believe life is meant to be lived. But:
if we live without making a difference, it makes no difference that we lived

 

[Jan Il]

Close. Make it "good pint" and you have a deal.
Deal!

It's the one you'll be sitting in.

...oh...'k.....I'll just look for that one then. Thanks! )

 

[Kathryn Jacobs]

Jan,
I'm going to give you another take on the difference (conceptually) between
the two systems:
CMYK was designed for paper. It prints four colors of ink on a white sheet.
The different amounts of each ink on any given spot on the paper gives you
the different colors. This system comes close to the three basic colors on
the wheel that you were taught in grade school (red, blue, yellow).

On the other hand, RBG was designed for TV and computer monitors. It is
based on the strength of each color gun used on consecutive pixels on a
screen. The proximity of each color combines to trick your eye into thinking
that different colors are appearing. The colors are generated by light, not
ink, so your eye sees them differently.

--
Kathryn Jacobs, Microsoft PPT MVP
If this helped you, please take the time to rate the value of this post:
http://rate.affero.net/jacobskl/
Get PowerPoint answers at http://www.powerpointanswers.com
Cook anything outdoors with http://www.outdoorcook.com
Kathy is a trainer, writer, Girl Scout, and whatever else there is time for
I believe life is meant to be lived. But:
if we live without making a difference, it makes no difference that we lived

 

[Jan Il]

I'll make a sign for her chair.... It'll be movable so it can go from
session to session to dinner to help desk to....

Oh hey, way cool Kathy, thank you! )) That'll sure make it easier to
know which one I'm in no matter where I go.

Jan

 

[Jan Il]

Hi Kathy!

Jan,
I'm going to give you another take on the difference (conceptually) between
the two systems:
CMYK was designed for paper. It prints four colors of ink on a white sheet.
The different amounts of each ink on any given spot on the paper gives you
the different colors. This system comes close to the three basic colors on
the wheel that you were taught in grade school (red, blue, yellow).

On the other hand, RBG was designed for TV and computer monitors. It is
based on the strength of each color gun used on consecutive pixels on a
screen. The proximity of each color combines to trick your eye into thinking
that different colors are appearing. The colors are generated by light, not
ink, so your eye sees them differently.

I see, this is a little easier to sort...I think. So, ...if I understand
this correctly, in practice, for the things that I want to print out on
paper or such, I would use the CMYK, and if I am creating things for just
visual purposes, such as for a website or Presentation, which would be
displayed on a monitor or screen of some sort, then I would use the RBG?

I am going to be trying my hand with Snow Globes in CDGS11 as part of a new
project. They will ultimately be used on a website, and also in an animated
PPT project, so, I should use the RBG colors to create them? However, if
they needed to print out brochures or such, then I should have a copy using
the CMYK's for printing purposes to ensure better color quality?

Is that correct, or is the vapor between my ears a bit foggy just now?

Thanks Kathy!

Jan

 

[Kathryn Jacobs]

Sounds like you have got it. But as Yogi Berra is frequently quoted for
saying:
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in
practice there is"

(In other words, it should work this way, but your mileage may vary. Let us
all know how it comes out.)

(And your sign would work best in CMYK, but I'm going to cheat and do it in
black on colored paper!)
--
Kathryn Jacobs, Microsoft PPT MVP
If this helped you, please take the time to rate the value of this post:
http://rate.affero.net/jacobskl/
Get PowerPoint answers at http://www.powerpointanswers.com
Cook anything outdoors with http://www.outdoorcook.com
Kathy is a trainer, writer, Girl Scout, and whatever else there is time for
I believe life is meant to be lived. But:
if we live without making a difference, it makes no difference that we lived

 

[Jan Il]

Kathy -

Jan,
I'm going to give you another take on the difference (conceptually) between
the two systems:
CMYK was designed for paper. It prints four colors of ink on a white sheet.
The different amounts of each ink on any given spot on the paper gives you
the different colors. This system comes close to the three basic colors on
the wheel that you were taught in grade school (red, blue, yellow).

On the other hand, RBG was designed for TV and computer monitors. It is
based on the strength of each color gun used on consecutive pixels on a
screen. The proximity of each color combines to trick your eye into thinking
that different colors are appearing. The colors are generated by light, not
ink, so your eye sees them differently.

I just re-read Steve's earlier reply regarding which I
should use between CD & PPT, which would be the RBG, since
PPT does not pay any attention to the CMYK. So, at least
when working between these two programs I best stay with
the RBG, or, at least have a copy with this to use with
PPT.

Jan

 

[Jan Il]

Sounds like you have got it. But as Yogi Berra is
frequently quoted for

saying:
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice, but in
practice there is"

Yea, 'Ol Yogi has a lot of really good sayings. And, I
hear a very good businessman. I mean...he knows that cash
is actually as good a money. That's a very good point.

(In other words, it should work this way, but your

mileage may vary. Let us all know how it comes out.)

I have 3 projects to clear up before the 10th, as I will
be flying to Tucson on the 11th, but, I will see if I can
test out a couple of things to see how things go twix now
and then, in case I have some questions to add for PPT
Live. I already have a small list, which will be flown in
separately and delivered direct to the hotel by United Van
Lines.

(And your sign would work best in CMYK, but I'm going to

cheat and do it in black on colored paper!)

Oh good..that should work really great, Kathy, it'll stand
out more, and make it easier to find when I go from place
to place. Thank You!)

BTW...Kathy...did I mention that I'm color blind??


NOT!! <VBG>

Jan

 

[Steve Rindsberg, PPTMVP]

Oh hey, way cool Kathy, thank you! )) That'll sure make it easier to

know which one I'm in no matter where I go.

And then all you need to do is carry a mirror around.
Check the chair back and if it says it's you, then it's you sitting there.
Saves so much wandering around in search of one's self.
Why, if we'd had these things back in the sixties and seventies, we wouldn't
have needed to HAVE the sixties and seventies.

 

[Steve Rindsberg, PPTMVP]

I see, this is a little easier to sort...I think. So, ...if I understand

this correctly, in practice, for the things that I want to print out on
paper or such, I would use the CMYK, and if I am creating things for just
visual purposes, such as for a website or Presentation, which would be
displayed on a monitor or screen of some sort, then I would use the RBG?

Yes and no. If you're going to print from an application that understands
CMYK, then yes.
Draw does, for example.

PowerPoint doesn't speak CMYK, so everything gets converted to RGB on the
way in (except EPS, but we'll ignore them for now). You have no control
over PPT's CMYK to RGB conversion, so it's better to do the conversion, or
start right in with RGB, in the first place.

I am going to be trying my hand with Snow Globes in CDGS11 as part of a new
project. They will ultimately be used on a website, and also in an animated
PPT project, so, I should use the RBG colors to create them?
Yes.

However, if
they needed to print out brochures or such, then I should have a copy using
the CMYK's for printing purposes to ensure better color quality?

Or create in RGB then convert to CMYK later if/when needed.

RGB has a wider "gamut" (more range, you might say) than CMYK. Converting
to CMYK is mostly a matter of compressing the range down to something that
CMYK can handle.

Going the other way is kind of like trying to make chickens from chicken
soup.

 

[Steve Rindsberg, PPTMVP]

(And your sign would work best in CMYK, but I'm going to cheat and do it
in

black on colored paper!)

That may depend too ..

You'd think that with a printer that uses CMYK inks, CMYK would be the best
place to start.
Often it's not, though.

Printers often present themselves to Windows as RGB devices. Windows sends
RGB data, the printer driver or printer internals do the conversion to CMYK
or CMYK++ for the printers that have >4 inks.

So if you start in CMYK, Windows converts to RGB, sends that to the printer
driver/printer, where it gets converted back to CMYK. Sometimes you're
better off sticking with RGB in that case.

 

[Jan Il]

Yes and no. If you're going to print from an application that understands
CMYK, then yes.
Draw does, for example.

That is more or less what I gathered from a lot of the questions and
responses there too. But, was not sure how this would relate to PPT.

PowerPoint doesn't speak CMYK, so everything gets converted to RGB on the
way in (except EPS, but we'll ignore them for now). You have no control
over PPT's CMYK to RGB conversion, so it's better to do the conversion, or
start right in with RGB, in the first place.

I see...since Draw can work with either, but PPT can only work with the one4
RBG, then it would be best to just work within the limitations of PPT.

...'k..

Or create in RGB then convert to CMYK later if/when needed.

RGB has a wider "gamut" (more range, you might say) than CMYK. Converting
to CMYK is mostly a matter of compressing the range down to something that
CMYK can handle.

Ah...then ..more becomes less with the conversion to CMYK? Seems to me that
in the old days, when Novell had Presentations in the custom color portion
there was a selection you could choose from for both RBG and CMYK to
customize your colors. Maybe that's what confused me. Then....maybe
not....???

Going the other way is kind of like trying to make chickens from chicken
soup.

Oh...gadzoolie!! I can see that would really be kinda hard.
Shoo....trying to stick all those feathers back on the chickens. I mean...
just trying to stain 'em all out of the soup would be hard enough. Whew!

 

[Jan Il]

And then all you need to do is carry a mirror around.
Check the chair back and if it says it's you, then it's you sitting there.
Saves so much wandering around in search of one's self.
Why, if we'd had these things back in the sixties and seventies, we wouldn't
have needed to HAVE the sixties and seventies.

Yea...see, that way I won't be late to the sessons because I'll know where I
am at all times. Right?

Ahm...there was a sixties? ...and seventies? When did this happen? Boy, do
I feel like a Guppy..<sigh>

 

[Steve Rindsberg, PPTMVP]

over PPT's CMYK to RGB conversion, so it's better to do the conversion,
or

I see...since Draw can work with either, but PPT can only work with the one4
RBG, then it would be best to just work within the limitations of PPT.

Yup. 'Cause working without them isn't on the menu. ;-)

Ah...then ..more becomes less with the conversion to CMYK? Seems to me that
in the old days, when Novell had Presentations in the custom color portion
there was a selection you could choose from for both RBG and CMYK to
customize your colors. Maybe that's what confused me. Then....maybe
not....???


Oh...gadzoolie!! I can see that would really be kinda hard.
Shoo....trying to stick all those feathers back on the chickens. I mean...
just trying to stain 'em all out of the soup would be hard enough. Whew!

See, that's the problem. Good chicken soup got no feathers.
Now how you gonna make a chicken without feathers?