Document Properties as compared to Fields

N

Naseer_Khan

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: intel

I've used the Gallery to insert a Cover Page and Headers into my document, but trying to modify some things is very confusing with regards to my understanding of messing with Fields.

I've turned on Field Shading to Always and yet Document Properties (which act like Field in that they are automatically entered) do not highlight. When I change the item in one place, the other changes - which is great. But when I want to delete an instance from one place, the Property itself is being edited to be blank.

Any hints or pointers to references on Document Property items and how they behave (or rather, how to control them) that you can provide would be very educational.
 
J

John McGhie

Yeah, we would love to get this information. But we don't have it either!!

I suspect that what you are referring to are "Content Controls", not
"Fields".

If I am correct, there's a tutorial on them here:
http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=6559444

And here:
http://www.microsoft.com/uk/msdn/screencasts/screencast/235/Structuring-Docu
ments-in-Word-2007-Using-Content-Controls.aspx

If you Google on "word 2007 content controls" you will find several other
references.

Sadly, most of what they tell you to do with them is not possible in Word
2008 because they left out the needed functions.

In Word 2008, they're pretty much a "What you see is what you get"
proposition.

Sorry to be no use at all!

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: intel

I've used the Gallery to insert a Cover Page and Headers into my document, but
trying to modify some things is very confusing with regards to my
understanding of messing with Fields.

I've turned on Field Shading to Always and yet Document Properties (which act
like Field in that they are automatically entered) do not highlight. When I
change the item in one place, the other changes - which is great. But when I
want to delete an instance from one place, the Property itself is being edited
to be blank.

Any hints or pointers to references on Document Property items and how they
behave (or rather, how to control them) that you can provide would be very
educational.

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
N

Naseer_Khan

John,

Thanks for your reply. After reading through some other related questions last night before this, my first post, I was hoping there was an answer that was eluding me.

What I am struggling with is in Word 2008 related to Document Elements in the Gallery and my quick reading of the links you've provided seems related but not directly (since I am in 2008 and not 2007 as the docs allude to). So I am imagining that Microsoft has provided some way of manipulating the devices that they have included, or if they haven't, maybe this will help with further "bug fixing."

The main problem I have is as I mentioned where the Document Property such as Title that's inserted in the Cover Page and Header/Footer is automated but does show itself as such when Fields shading is turned on. By automated I mean that when you edit the Title in the Cover Page and you have Header/Footer with Title in it, the actual text changes in all instances. And it changes in the Properties dialog. And if you change it in the dialog (or other property such as Author), the text changes in the document. So they act like automatically updated fields but you can't tell that they're fields!!!

And the most frustrating part is if you want a particular style Header/Footer, but choose to remove the Title from there, you're actually editing the content of the Property and thus all places where it's referenced say something like "Type The Document Title." For now, I am simulating the same look by studying the automatically generated Header and making same manually. But I felt that there might be a better way if one were to understand the mechanisms involved.

But I find with new versions of Office, it's somewhat like finding a derelict alien spacecraft. You gotta pull a few levers, push a few buttons, hope nothing goes "kablooiey." And the I'm not sure it's different for the people who supposedly created the code...!!! ;-) [Mactopia personnel, please notice the wink!]

BTW, I hope they handed you a check on your trip to Microsoft last week for all the great service you provide here at this forum. From what I've read in the few threads, you're certainly fulfilling the MVP title!

Thanks...

--Naseer
 
N

Naseer_Khan

Correction: I meant to say "Document Property does NOT show itself as such when Fields shading is turned on."

Distracted by the Control Contents video from your second link...!!! That thing is like gaining knowledge that you know you're not gonna need anytime soon...!!! Those things seem great for forms and templates making....
 
J

John McGhie

Hi Naseer:

Thanks for your reply. After reading through some other related questions last
night before this, my first post, I was hoping there was an answer that was
eluding me.

So was I. There isn't :)
What I am struggling with is in Word 2008 related to Document Elements in the
Gallery and my quick reading of the links you've provided seems related but
not directly (since I am in 2008 and not 2007 as the docs allude to). So I am
imagining that Microsoft has provided some way of manipulating the devices
that they have included, or if they haven't, maybe this will help with further
"bug fixing."

They haven't, and that won't change in the current version of the product.
It would be nice to think that we would get the full version of Word in the
next release, but we will just have to wait and see.
The main problem I have is as I mentioned where the Document Property such as
Title that's inserted in the Cover Page and Header/Footer is automated but
does show itself as such when Fields shading is turned on. By automated I mean
that when you edit the Title in the Cover Page and you have Header/Footer with
Title in it, the actual text changes in all instances. And it changes in the
Properties dialog. And if you change it in the dialog (or other property such
as Author), the text changes in the document. So they act like automatically
updated fields but you can't tell that they're fields!!!

That's because they're "not" fields. They are Content Controls. They are
updating properties in their underlying XML. Since we did not get the XML
Structure View or XML Editor in Word 2008, you can't change them -- what you
see (or don't see...) is what you get.
And the most frustrating part is if you want a particular style Header/Footer,
but choose to remove the Title from there, you're actually editing the content
of the Property and thus all places where it's referenced say something like
"Type The Document Title." For now, I am simulating the same look by studying
the automatically generated Header and making same manually. But I felt that
there might be a better way if one were to understand the mechanisms involved.

Yes, there is. You can relace the content controls with the old-style
Fields. If you do that, you can then replicate the functionality you want,
yet remain in control of it.

If you look in File>Properties, you will find that the old "Title" field is
exposed there.

If you Insert>Field>"Title" anywhere in your document, whatever you type in
the Title field will appear there any time you update fields.

To make it dynamic, use a slightly different technique.

1) Set the text of the title on your front cover in Title style.

2) In your first section header, insert a "StyleRef" field and specify
"Title" as the style from which it draws its result.

3) Unlink your following section headers, then change the StyleRef field to
pick up "Heading 1" style instead of "Title" style. That will pick up each
new chapter into the header, provided you have your chapter headings
formatted with Heading 1.

You can extend this idea to drop a StyleRef field in the footer to pull up
the Title, and another one in the right-hand header to pull up "Heading 2".

So you have document title in the footer, Chapter title in the left header
and Section header in the right header.
But I find with new versions of Office, it's somewhat like finding a derelict
alien spacecraft. You gotta pull a few levers, push a few buttons, hope
nothing goes "kablooiey." And the I'm not sure it's different for the people
who supposedly created the code...!!! ;-) [Mactopia personnel, please notice
the wink!]

I delivered exactly this message to them in Seattle last week. Without the
wink! All I got was a load of waffle. But decoding the waffle, the problem
is that they simply haven't got enough staff to write the help they would
like to offer for this version.

So I told them we would write the help FOR them if they told us where to
send it :)

I now have the help writer's email address :) If you ever find out how to
edit Content Controls in Word 2008, write it up and send it in: I will
deliver it with love and kisses :)
BTW, I hope they handed you a check on your trip to Microsoft last week for
all the great service you provide here at this forum. From what I've read in
the few threads, you're certainly fulfilling the MVP title!

No. MVPs will not accept payment from Microsoft. Because if we did, we
would no longer be "independent" :) If I want to recommend Pages to a
user, I can. That ability would go if I were paid for this. (MVPs are
required to resign their MVP status immediately if they accept paid-for work
from Microsoft.)

However, I am a typical geek with utterly appalling dress sense. So a
substantial part of my wardrobe consists of "Microsoft" shirts and T-shirts.
Some of which still fit :)

When I got into this industry, about 40 years ago, people patiently taught
me the ropes. Now it's my turn to do that for someone else.

When you get to the age where your back goes out more than you do, and your
hairdresser gives you half-price because there's not much left, remember
where you got the knowledge you earned your living with, and look for your
own opportunity to pass it on to the next generation :)

Best cheers

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 
J

John McGhie

Correction: I meant to say "Document Property does NOT show itself as such
when Fields shading is turned on."

I knew what you meant :)

That's because it is a Content Control, not a Field :)
Distracted by the Control Contents video from your second link...!!! That
thing is like gaining knowledge that you know you're not gonna need anytime
soon...!!! Those things seem great for forms and templates making....

And Document Parts, of which Cover Pages are some. We now need the Content
Control Editor that is built in to Word 2007.

Maybe next version... {Mutter}.

Cheers

--

Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Nhulunbuy, NT, Australia. mailto:[email protected]
 

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