Does "Print to PDF" embed fonts?

[sv650kd]

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger)
Processor: Intel

I fear that I will need to make an expensive Acrobat purchase in order to embed the fonts in my document. Please say it isn't so!

 

[John McGhie]

Well, if you want me to, I will "say it isn't so", but I am lying

Generally, font embedding is not supported ANYWHERE on the Mac, by anything.
The sole exception that I know of is Acrobat*

* For a very small selection of fonts that will allow themselves to be
embedded.

Most modern fonts are set to deny embedding for copyright reasons.

Before you waste your money, test that the fonts you want are actually
embeddable.

Cheers

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.4 (Tiger)
Processor: Intel

I fear that I will need to make an expensive Acrobat purchase in order to
embed the fonts in my document. Please say it isn't so!

--
Don't wait for your answer, click here: http://www.word.mvps.org/

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

John McGhie, Microsoft MVP, Word and Word:Mac
Sydney, Australia. mailto:[email protected]

 

[CyberTaz]

Hey John;

Generally, font embedding is not supported ANYWHERE on the Mac, by anything.
The sole exception that I know of is Acrobat*

What about inDesign, QuarkXPress, Illustrator, and at least half a dozen
other apps designed for commercial output?... But you're quite right that
many fonts are restricted from embedding.

One other thought on the subject, though...

The only reason for embedding fonts in PDFs is if they're headed for
commercial press. If that's the case not only is pro-caliber software called
for (not necessarily Acrobat) but any decent printing agency has access to
virtually any font you might use - and if your business is worth it to them
they will be glad to obtain any they don't have

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hey John;



What about inDesign, QuarkXPress, Illustrator, and at least half a dozen
other apps designed for commercial output?... But you're quite right that
many fonts are restricted from embedding.

One other thought on the subject, though...

The only reason for embedding fonts in PDFs is if they're headed for
commercial press. If that's the case not only is pro-caliber software called
for (not necessarily Acrobat) but any decent printing agency has access to
virtually any font you might use - and if your business is worth it to them
they will be glad to obtain any they don't have

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

I'm sure both of you are at least partially wrong.
see
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?path=Mac/10.4/en/mh1035.html
see also
http://www.pdf-x.com/pdfx_123_1.php
PDF-X insists on partial font embedding
You can print to PDF-X from any Mac application.

I say partially, since our definitions of embedding may differ.
The PDF specification requires the description of each character in
each font used in the document to be included. That means you must have
at least subset embedding. A PDF document in any font should be
displayable at full vector resolution.

I checked a few pdfs I created from Word using OS X print to PDF. All
of them show all the fonts used as 'embedded subset'
(Using Acrobat Pro 8.1.2 and its properties.. menu)

Bob, you are sort of right about InDesign and its uncles and aunts. You
may optionally include the complete font for any font which already has
more than x% of its characters already used. However, at least for
InDesign, I /think/ that applies to the packaged .indd file rather than
the pdf you may choose to make from it. The x% is user settable, so
you can embed the whole thing as long as there is a single character in
that font.

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Elliott;

However, at least for
InDesign, I /think/ that applies to the packaged .indd file rather than
the pdf you may choose to make from it.

Have a look at the Adobe PDF Presets in the File menu of InDy. Al default
presets provide user-adjustable percentage settings... And of course you can
create your own presets to include settings of your choice. (This is
specifically CS3, but IIRC CS2 - not sure about CS - had the same
capability.)

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hi Elliott;



Have a look at the Adobe PDF Presets in the File menu of InDy. Al default
presets provide user-adjustable percentage settings... And of course you can
create your own presets to include settings of your choice. (This is
specifically CS3, but IIRC CS2 - not sure about CS - had the same
capability.)

Hi Bob,
OK. I was being lazy. I didn't check. I come out in hives every time I
have to use Acrobat Pro. God it is an ugly horrible program, full of
numpty UI ineptitude. It looks so Windows XP. How can something with
such a Kandy Kolored interface produce good typography?
I honestly can't see the point of worrying about embedded fonts too
much. I'll generally send the job off to the printer with PDF complete
with partial embedded fonts, the indd package file and (ignoring the
copyright cops) the full fonts just in case. I agree with you that in
most cases the typesetting shop would already have 'em, so I don't lose
too much sleep over the legality of it all.
Come to think of it, I would be distraught if the typesetter didn't
have the fonts I chose. It would mean I was committing a design sin.

 

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

That's mostly true.

But I have found that for website items (see some examples at
www.phillipmjones.net) That if I don't embed fonts into the pdf. While
if I view them using Acrobat or Reader on computer they may look good.
But, if I strip all the font information out; if you view them using a
plugin such as Adobe PDF viewer. Or PDFViewer by Schubert. They look
ragged looking and don't look professional Looking.

Microsoft absolutely refuses to allow under any circumstances, embedding
of fonts. But if you use Adobe fonts, you generally have permission to
allow embedding.

IF adobe has entered into an agreement with BitStream, or Linotype to
license Font Families, usually those can be embedded as well.

But the only true way of embedding fonts or controlling the fonts that
get embedded is to purchase Acrobat. IF you've ever own ed a version of
acrobat they can sell it at an upgrade price which is not as tough as
buying first time. (I've owned acrobat since version 4 and just recently
upgraded to version 9).


Its my understanding That adobe has come out with a service that you can
actually use Reader 9.0 to create simple PDF through adobe.com. Might be
worth while to look into if you just create a simple PDF, once in a blue
moon.

Hey John;



What about inDesign, QuarkXPress, Illustrator, and at least half a dozen
other apps designed for commercial output?... But you're quite right that
many fonts are restricted from embedding.

One other thought on the subject, though...

The only reason for embedding fonts in PDFs is if they're headed for
commercial press. If that's the case not only is pro-caliber software called
for (not necessarily Acrobat) but any decent printing agency has access to
virtually any font you might use - and if your business is worth it to them
they will be glad to obtain any they don't have

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET mailto[email protected]
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! http://www.vpea.org
http://www.phillipmjones.net
G4-500 Mac 1.5 GB RAM OSX.3.9 G4-1.67 GB PowerBook 17" 2GB RAM OSX.4.11
------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

[Elliott Roper]

That's mostly true.

No it is not. All three of you are full of it.
The PDF-X definition *requires* the fonts to be subset embedded.
It is the normal practice to do so in other flavours of PDF, and OS X
print to PDF does so.
Philip, you can check this for yourself in Acrobat Professional.
Open any PDF document and hit cmd-D
The fonts tab will show which fonts are embedded.

But I have found that for website items (see some examples at
www.phillipmjones.net) That if I don't embed fonts into the pdf. While
if I view them using Acrobat or Reader on computer they may look good.
But, if I strip all the font information out; if you view them using a
plugin such as Adobe PDF viewer. Or PDFViewer by Schubert. They look
ragged looking and don't look professional Looking.

Exactly! That proves the fonts *were* embedded until you ripped 'em out.

Microsoft absolutely refuses to allow under any circumstances, embedding
of fonts. But if you use Adobe fonts, you generally have permission to
allow embedding.

Wrong and wrong again if you are talking complete fonts

IF adobe has entered into an agreement with BitStream, or Linotype to
license Font Families, usually those can be embedded as well.

But the only true way of embedding fonts or controlling the fonts that
get embedded is to purchase Acrobat. IF you've ever own ed a version of
acrobat they can sell it at an upgrade price which is not as tough as
buying first time. (I've owned acrobat since version 4 and just recently
upgraded to version 9). Wrong and right (sort of)

Its my understanding That adobe has come out with a service that you can
actually use Reader 9.0 to create simple PDF through adobe.com. Might be
worth while to look into if you just create a simple PDF, once in a blue
moon.

If you are all talking about embedding the entire font, then I give up.
That would be such an incredibly stupid thing to do. If you want to
send the font to the recipients, send 'em the fonts as separate files
and play games with the copyright openly. Why pollute your PDF with
more than it needs to display correctly wherever it ends up? That is
why subset fonts are always embedded.
Unless, of course, someone like you goes to extreme lengths to rip them
out to prove the opposite of what you think you are proving.

 

[Phillip Jones, C.E.T.]

No it is not. All three of you are full of it.
The PDF-X definition *requires* the fonts to be subset embedded.
It is the normal practice to do so in other flavours of PDF, and OS X
print to PDF does so.
Philip, you can check this for yourself in Acrobat Professional.
Open any PDF document and hit cmd-D
The fonts tab will show which fonts are embedded.
Exactly! That proves the fonts *were* embedded until you ripped 'em out.

In Acrobat you have a feature called PDF optimizer , that you can remove
or compress certain items to reduce the size of the PDF.
Most of the time I always find 2, 3,4, 5. 6 copies of the same exact
fonts embedded with in the Pdf.
I usually to reduce size will remove the multiple copies. and leave only
one copy of each different version. example you might have multiple
copies of Plain, bold, Italic, demi. condensed, etc. I will remove all
but one copy of each. It drastically reduces the size of the PDF with
out reducing the quality of what the person sees when they view the PDF.

Wrong and wrong again if you are talking complete fonts.

That word was gleaned from MS itself, they do not allow font embedding.
And if you open Distiller and have it choose fonts to embed, it skips
over any MS fonts.

If you are all talking about embedding the entire font, then I give up.
That would be such an incredibly stupid thing to do. If you want to
send the font to the recipients, send 'em the fonts as separate files
and play games with the copyright openly. Why pollute your PDF with
more than it needs to display correctly wherever it ends up? That is
why subset fonts are always embedded.
Unless, of course, someone like you goes to extreme lengths to rip them
out to prove the opposite of what you think you are proving.

I don't remove all fonts. But I have received and viewed PDF's in which
all fonts have been removed.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET mailto[email protected]
If it's "fixed", don't "break it"! http://www.vpea.org
http://www.phillipmjones.net
G4-500 Mac 1.5 GB RAM OSX.3.9 G4-1.67 GB PowerBook 17" 2GB RAM OSX.4.11
------------------------------------------------------------------------