Entourage Database Corruption Problem - Ongoing Occurrences

[exiled2tx]

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: Intel
Email Client: pop

I originally posted on this back in October. Diane gave me a response as well as several questions. However, I didn't get back to the forum quickly and the problem stopped again. However, it has started again this week, with a vengeance. (And the old thread was both diverted and now locked due to age)

The problem is with database corruption. It seems to hit me on a semi-regular basis – normally about once a month since I installed Entourage 2008 at the beginning of the year. (I had it typically twice a year when using E-2001). This week, it has happened at least four times.

Normally during the failure /rebuilding I've also lost an item – typically a task or a piece of mail.

I have on several occasions taken an old copy of my database and made a new identity of it. This normally solves the problem for a week or two but not this week (I've had to do it twice this week).

I was almost at the point of dropping MS Entourage a couple of months ago and may very well do it this weekend. There has to be something wrong and I’d appreciate some help.

In answer to Diane’s previous questions / comments:
• I am currently using 10.5.4. This was the current version in October but I recognize that it is ‘out of date’ right now. I have historically used “Software Update” to update things. Diane had mentioned that perhaps I should use a Combo Updater. Can I apply such an update for 10.5.6 to my current system?
• My computer came with 10.5 factory installed. It is a Macbook Pro, late 2007 vintage.
• I don’t remember if I had Office on this machine before 2008. I think (but not 100% sure) that I kept using my previous machine until the new version of Office was available.
• Here is how I’ve been doing the new identity thing: I export my current info to an .rge file. I then set up a new identity and import from the .rge file. Then have to go through resetting my preferences, filters, categories, etc.
• My database file until this week was typically in the 90 – 120 M range. This week, I did my end of the year cleanup (storing everything on a DVD, deleting old calendar entries, old completed tasks, etc.) so right now it is about 62 M. My database has about 700 old emails and 300 upcoming tasks right now for the next year.

So basically, I need some HELP to put this problem behind me. Not only is it a hassle but also I’m really worried that I’ll loss something with Entourage 2008. I’m willing to apply the combo updater (or whatever) if that will help or to build a new identity a different way.

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Diane Ross]

In answer to Diane¹s previous questions / comments:
€ an I apply such an update for 10.5.6 to my current system?

Yes. When you download the combo, be sure all applications are quit by
logging out/in with Shift key down. Then run the combo.

Mac OS X 10.5.6 Combo Update
(For both PowerPC- and Intel-based Macs )
<http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/macosx_updates/macosx1056combou
pdate.html>

€ Here is how I¹ve been doing the new identity thing: I export my current info
to an .rge file. I then set up a new identity and import from the .rge file.
Then have to go through resetting my preferences, filters, categories, etc.

I know. PITB

€ My database file until this week was typically in the 90 ­ 120 M range. This
week, I did my end of the year cleanup (storing everything on a DVD, deleting
old calendar entries, old completed tasks, etc.) so right now it is about 62
M. My database has about 700 old emails and 300 upcoming tasks right now for
the next year.

Very small as far as databases go.

The fact that you are having periodic episodes of corruption is highly
unusual.

More questions:

1) What size is your hard drive and how full? You can find this info in the
Activity Monitor (Applications/Utilities)

2) Are you backing up? How often? What method?

3) Do you do any kind of regular maintenance? What applications? (I'm
looking for something that might be a causative agent to the corruption)

4) What type of account(s)? (POP, IMAP, Exchange)

5) Exactly what happens to let you know you have corruption? What error
message do you see? Is it the same error each time? (take screenshots to
help get the entire error)

Instead of doing the export as Entourage archive (.rge) this time, let's
create a new Identity by using the MBOX method. You can try one of the
export MBOX files scripts.

For MBOX files: The script will fail on a folder with corruption.

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/database/export_mbox.html>

Until we discover what is causing your problems, be sure you backup daily.
Set each account to leave on server.

 

[Kerry]

Entourage 08 is, in my view, like one of those relationships you get
into that you find is High Maintenance. Eventually, you ask yourself,
is it worth it. That's a personal decision. I keep my database around
the size you do and have had numerous problems since switching to 08
from 04. I use a Blackberry and switched from Missing sync to
PocketMac for sync'g due to the sync problems in Entourage. In
PocketMac's support they suggest, if you are an active Entourage user,
rebuilding your database I think rather frequently. I kind of forget
the reason but it seems to me that active use can cause errors in the
database which can cause sync problems for PocketMac. The problem is
rebuild in O8 has issues (confirmed with Microsoft tech support). If
you do a scan of this forum and others where people are posting on
Entourage you will see an enormous amount of posts like yours where
Entourage is just not working right and requires a lot of kicking to
get it working again. Really, who wants to do this. I only want to
just use my software and if it mucks up occassionally and I mean just
every so often well....that's life in the digital world. But Entourage
08 really does require extreme maintenance. Its totally unacceptable.
So you're not the only one who asks whether they should give up on it
and many have. Don't expect Microsoft to get this resolved anytime
soon. The issues are numerous and some of the very critical ones they
can't figure out how to fix. So you need to ask yourself whether its
worth it and also the data you might loose. Really, it is, from what I
can see, the only product in the Mac market that is very powerful and
flexible. But its not working well and I just want it to work. I don't
want to constantly fix it nor do I want to live in support forums
trying to figure out how. So you'll see people just making themselves
content with the Apple apps and others using Outlook through Parallels
or VMFusion and XP etc to do their work. However, I think everyone
would just love Entourage to just work again.

 

[Diane Ross]

In
PocketMac's support they suggest, if you are an active Entourage user,
rebuilding your database I think rather frequently.

Rebuilding should be avoided unless there is database corruption. Here's
what Jud Spencer [one of Entourage¹s original developers] said on the issue:

There is a small benefit to compacting regularly. Entourage maintains
internal sort tables. Those sort tables are optimized on a compact.

However, you should only choose the rebuild option if your database is
damaged. Many people believe that rebuilding your database will protect you
from future corruption. That just isn¹t the case.

Re: Compacting database - frequency?
<http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg20892.htm
l>

 

[exiled2tx]

After the problem happened a couple of times, I did start doing a rebuild semi-regularly - maybe once a week whether I thought it needed it or not. Maybe I contributed to my own problems.

I will try the combo installer to upgrade my system as well as the MBOX transfer to a new identity. Probably will be tomorrow. Not as bad right now as it could have been as I just finished my year end cleanup.

When things are working fine, I do not do a lot of identity switching - during the year, I just have my current identity and my file from the previous year (if I need something for reference). Everything else is .zip'd away.

My hard drive is 160 G. I am using a little over 30 G on it.

I back up 2-3 times a week. As I don't have an external hard drive, I just burn cheap DVDs of my Desktop, Document, and Download folders. Keep the last three or four, replacing the oldest as I burn a new one. Whenever I burn a DVD, I open three or four files at random just to be sure that it all works.

No maintainence from running programs or utilities or anything.

POP account.

Most of the time the corruption happens in one of two places - as I launch Entourage I get the message (and I'll copy down the message the next time) or when I'm scrolling down a list of tasks or mail and it will give me an error message and make about 10 items invisible until clicked on - typically I loss one or two just where this section starts.

Diane - at least once when I went to rebuild I damaged database, I mistakenly clicked on the check or verify option (I don't have it open right now so I don't remember the right term) - it told me that there was an error and, besides asking me if I want to rebuild, it asked if I wanted to save the report for Microsoft? Any value in that - I can do it again before rebuilding next time I get the error.

thanks,
Alan

 

[Diane Ross]

After the problem happened a couple of times, I did start doing a rebuild
semi-regularly - maybe once a week whether I thought it needed it or not.
Maybe I contributed to my own problems.

This is possibility.

I will try the combo installer to upgrade my system as well as the MBOX
transfer to a new identity. Probably will be tomorrow. Not as bad right now as
it could have been as I just finished my year end cleanup.

I just tested Jolly's new export script and was surprised at how quick it
worked. I have a 1.27 GB database. It got all my subfolders sorted
correctly.

When things are working fine, I do not do a lot of identity switching - during
the year, I just have my current identity and my file from the previous year
(if I need something for reference). Everything else is .zip'd away.

My hard drive is 160 G. I am using a little over 30 G on it.

That's plenty of room. Often a stuffed to the gills hard drive is the cause
of many problems.

I back up 2-3 times a week. As I don't have an external hard drive, I just
burn cheap DVDs of my Desktop, Document, and Download folders. Keep the last
three or four, replacing the oldest as I burn a new one. Whenever I burn a
DVD, I open three or four files at random just to be sure that it all works.

You will really appreciate the ease of backing up if you ever get an
external. Watch for specials.

No maintainence from running programs or utilities or anything.

Good. Optimizing drives can cause problems just like rebuilding too often.

POP account.

You might consider switching to IMAP until you get a handle on this
corruption issue.

Most of the time the corruption happens in one of two places - as I launch
Entourage I get the message (and I'll copy down the message the next time) or
when I'm scrolling down a list of tasks or mail and it will give me an error
message and make about 10 items invisible until clicked on - typically I loss
one or two just where this section starts.

You can post it using ImageShack or send it to me personally off list.

dianeross at mvps dot org <-- fix before replying.

Prefix your subject with: newsgroup response

Diane - at least once when I went to rebuild I damaged database, I mistakenly
clicked on the check or verify option (I don't have it open right now so I
don't remember the right term) - it told me that there was an error and,
besides asking me if I want to rebuild, it asked if I wanted to save the
report for Microsoft? Any value in that - I can do it again before rebuilding
next time I get the error.

A report would be helpful. Not sure how much I can get from it, but might be
able to get someone that reads these things to help.

Thanks for answering my questions.

 

[Kerry]

In
PocketMac's support they suggest, if you are an active Entourage user,
rebuilding your database I think rather frequently.

Rebuilding should be avoided unless there is database corruption. Here's
what Jud Spencer [one of Entourages original developers] said on the issue:

There is a small benefit to compacting regularly. Entourage maintains
internal sort tables. Those sort tables are optimized on a compact.

However, you should only choose the rebuild option if your database is
damaged. Many people believe that rebuilding your database will protect you
from future corruption. That just isnt the case.

Re: Compacting database - frequency?
<http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg20892.htm
l>

Yes I would agree that rebuilding is not advisable unless required and
there are issues in rebuild that can damage the DB. This is
PocketMac's view but why do they have that view? My real point is the
software is High Maintenance and this user isn't the only one who is
frustrated and asking the question should I switch. And compacting is
a good idea when you delete a pile of items as this is now just white
space along with the value it provides to the DB's integrity. But
users really should avoid rebuild especially until Microsoft gets this
working probably. The outcome is currently pretty unpredicatable.

 

[Diane Ross]

This is
PocketMac's view but why do they have that view?

You would have to ask them, but when you point one finger at another there 4
fingers pointing back to you.

My real point is the
software is High Maintenance and this user isn't the only one who is
frustrated and asking the question should I switch.

I can go years without having to rebuild. I'm pretty hard on my database too
because I do a lot of testing. You only hear from those that have problems.
The ones that are stable have no reason to post.

 

[exiled2tx]

Diane,
In the week since I last checked in, I have not had to rebuild nor did I do a routine rebuild. Not sure if that means anything or not - it could just be too short a time.

Also, did manage to update my OS with the combo update, rather than software update. Probably too early to tell if that did anything.

The last 'new identity' I did was back about Jan. 2 or so - I did it manually. Do you think I should do it again? If so, can you give me a little more info on how to use the script - it seemed a little bit spartan in directions.

 

[Diane Ross]

The last 'new identity' I did was back about Jan. 2 or so - I did it manually.
Do you think I should do it again? If so, can you give me a little more info
on how to use the script - it seemed a little bit spartan in directions.

At this point, I would not. Do daily backups and set to "keep mail on
server" for at least 3 days so you are covered. If you do start having
problems, then we can consider a new Identity.

Combo updaters are the best way to go for every big Apple OS update.
Sometimes you can instantly see they have fixed a problem, and other times,
it's more subtle. In addition, we can't forget that often problems have
multiple contributors making it harder to fix. That's why we test in a clean
environment. If you can identify the source(s) of the problem, you can fix
it.

 

[exiled2tx]

Two weeks later and still no crashes - we'll see what happens about the 2-3 month point.

I have not done a PM rebuild of the database. Perhaps that is also helping.

Alan