#ERROR in additional date fields

[Michael.Tarnowski]

Hi MSPwizards,
my boss gave me a task list with start and end dates (calendar). I use
start1 and end1 date fields to track this given dates and not to
stipulate start / end dates in MSP.
I clustered tasks to summary tasks. For these summary tasks the start1
and end1 field show NA, but for other summary tasks the end1 fields
show #ERROR. When I change the summary task to a detail tasks, the
field show NA again.
Whats going on there?
Thanks for your help
Michael

 

[Michael.Tarnowski]

Hi MSPwizards,
my boss gave me a task list with start and end dates (calendar). I use
start1 and end1 date fields to track this given dates and not to
stipulate start / end dates in MSP.
I clustered tasks to summary tasks. For these summary tasks the start1
and end1 field show NA, but for other summary tasks the end1 fields
show #ERROR. When I change the summary task to a detail tasks, the
field show NA again.
Whats going on there?
Thanks for your help
Michael

Hi folks,
I found the solution of my problem! - Since I disabled automatic
calculation pressing F9 solved the problem, the #ERRORS disappeared.
But the question still remains: What is the reason for this error?

Michael

 

[Michael.Tarnowski]

The reason for the error is you not allowing the software to perform the
calculation.
Why did you disable automatic calculation?
Um, since life is short, I take the view that if you can make a problem
disappear there is no need find the reason that it occurred.

How are you making the summaries draw a bar from the earliest start1 to the
latest end1 of you rack of tasks if you haven't actually estimated their
durations and linked them together or (heaven forbid) given them date
constraints?

Um, if you already know the dates, you don't really habe any need for the
software.
--
Trevor Rabey
0407213955
61 8 92727485
PERFECT PROJECT PLANNINGwww.perfectproject.com.au

Hi Trevor,
thanks for your feedback.

How are you making the summaries draw a bar from the earliest start1 to the
latest end1 of you rack of tasks if you haven't actually estimated their
durations and linked them together or (heaven forbid) given them date
constraints?

I took as first estimated duration the calendar interval endDate-
startDate. No date constraints, since that is a No-No ;-)

 

[JulieS]

"Michael.Tarnowski" wrote in message

Hi Trevor,
thanks for your feedback.

I took as first estimated duration the calendar interval endDate-
startDate. No date constraints, since that is a No-No ;-)

Hello Michael,

Summary task start and finish dates are calculated by Project based
upon the start of the earliest task and the finish of the latest
task. If you are using spare date fields (Start1 and Finish1) by
default, the summary level task is not calculating the Start1 and
Finish1 as it would for the standard Start and Finish fields. You
might wish to have those Start1 and Finish1 fields calculate instead
of having to manually enter values for the summary tasks. Right
click on the Start1 column heading and choose Customize Fields. In
the dialog, under "Calculation for group or summary rows" choose
Rollup and select minimum. That will set the Start1 for the summary
row equal to the earliest of any subtask. For the Finish1 field,
set the Rollup to Maximum.

For the calculation to occur, your calculation mode should be set to
Automatic, not manual. As Trevor mentions, you should also create
the predecessor/successor relationships between the tasks to begin
to derive the schedule based upon the durations and relationships
between the tasks.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie
Project MVP

Visit http://project.mvps.org/ for the FAQs and additional
information about Microsoft Project

 

[Michael.Tarnowski]

"Michael.Tarnowski" wrote in message

<snip> On May 19, 11:46 am, "Trevor Rabey - Perfect Project
Planning"





Hello Michael,

Summary task start and finish dates are calculated by Project based
upon the start of the earliest task and the finish of the latest
task. If you are using spare date fields (Start1 and Finish1) by
default, the summary level task is not calculating the Start1 and
Finish1 as it would for the standard Start and Finish fields. You
might wish to have those Start1 and Finish1 fields calculate instead
of having to manually enter values for the summary tasks. Right
click on the Start1 column heading and choose Customize Fields. In
the dialog, under "Calculation for group or summary rows" choose
Rollup and select minimum. That will set the Start1 for the summary
row equal to the earliest of any subtask. For the Finish1 field,
set the Rollup to Maximum.

For the calculation to occur, your calculation mode should be set to
Automatic, not manual. As Trevor mentions, you should also create
the predecessor/successor relationships between the tasks to begin
to derive the schedule based upon the durations and relationships
between the tasks.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie
Project MVP

Visithttp://project.mvps.org/for the FAQs and additional
information about Microsoft Project

Julie, Trevor,
thank you for your tips.
I used the spare fields only to compare the calculated starts/ends by
MSP with the objectives derived by paper/pencil planing.
To adjust the Gantt chart I adopted all task's depiction to the spares
instead (Format>Bar Styles>From...To). I scheduled backwards and
linked all tasks (fix work) and milestones from a PrjStrt_milestone to
a PrjEnd_milestone where some milestones are constrained by MFO dates
due to contractual agreements; resources are not assigned yet.
I set all durations manualy to the net work days of the time interval
end date - start end.
What drives me crazy is, that some tasks are well in line with the
objective dates (sparse fields) others are scheduled by MSP with
sometimes weeks or a month delay (compared to the objectives). I have
stated durations and task type (fixed work) only - no work. -- I
thought I had understand the way MSP adopts the duration/work changes,
but I can't figure out how MSP schedules these delays.
Michael

 

[Michael.Tarnowski]

"Michael.Tarnowski" wrote in message

<snip> On May 19, 11:46 am, "Trevor Rabey - Perfect Project
Planning"





Hello Michael,

Summary task start and finish dates are calculated by Project based
upon the start of the earliest task and the finish of the latest
task. If you are using spare date fields (Start1 and Finish1) by
default, the summary level task is not calculating the Start1 and
Finish1 as it would for the standard Start and Finish fields. You
might wish to have those Start1 and Finish1 fields calculate instead
of having to manually enter values for the summary tasks. Right
click on the Start1 column heading and choose Customize Fields. In
the dialog, under "Calculation for group or summary rows" choose
Rollup and select minimum. That will set the Start1 for the summary
row equal to the earliest of any subtask. For the Finish1 field,
set the Rollup to Maximum.

For the calculation to occur, your calculation mode should be set to
Automatic, not manual. As Trevor mentions, you should also create
the predecessor/successor relationships between the tasks to begin
to derive the schedule based upon the durations and relationships
between the tasks.

I hope this helps. Let us know how you get along.

Julie
Project MVP

Visithttp://project.mvps.org/for the FAQs and additional
information about Microsoft Project

Julie, Trevor,
thank you both for your comments.
I used the spare fields only to compare the calculated starts/ends by
MSP with the objectives derived by paper/pencil planing. To adjust the
Gantt chart I adopted all task's depiction to the spares instead
(Format>Bar Styles>From...To). I scheduled backwards and linked all
tasks (fix work) and milestones from a PrjStrt_milestone to a
PrjEnd_milestone where some milestones are constrained by MFO dates
due to contractual agreements; resources are not assigned yet. I set
all durations manualy to the net work days of the time interval end
date - start end.

What drives me crazy is, that some tasks are well in line with the
objective dates (sparse fields) others are scheduled by MSP with
sometimes weeks or a month delay (compared to the objectives). I have
stated durations and task type (fixed work) only - no work. -- I
thought, I would had understand the way MSP adopts the duration/work
changes, but I can't figure out how MSP schedules these delays. My
basic understanding is that for the first run both schedules should be
identical since no resources, no actual work are involved; both should
be a list of tasks equally distributed along the time line -- aren't
they?

Michael

 

[JulieS]

Julie, Trevor,
thank you both for your comments.
I used the spare fields only to compare the calculated starts/ends
by
MSP with the objectives derived by paper/pencil planing. To adjust
the
Gantt chart I adopted all task's depiction to the spares instead
(Format>Bar Styles>From...To). I scheduled backwards and linked
all
tasks (fix work) and milestones from a PrjStrt_milestone to a
PrjEnd_milestone where some milestones are constrained by MFO
dates
due to contractual agreements; resources are not assigned yet. I
set
all durations manualy to the net work days of the time interval
end
date - start end.

What drives me crazy is, that some tasks are well in line with the
objective dates (sparse fields) others are scheduled by MSP with
sometimes weeks or a month delay (compared to the objectives). I
have
stated durations and task type (fixed work) only - no work. -- I
thought, I would had understand the way MSP adopts the
duration/work
changes, but I can't figure out how MSP schedules these delays. My
basic understanding is that for the first run both schedules
should be
identical since no resources, no actual work are involved; both
should
be a list of tasks equally distributed along the time line --
aren't
they?

Michael

Hi Michael,

I think there may be a misunderstanding about what "fixed work" task
types mean. Fixed work really only matters when you have resources
assigned. If the tasks aren't scheduled where you expected I'd
check a couple of things:
Did you manually enter any dates into the Start or Finish fields?
Check the indicator column for constraint indicators.

I'm not sure why you are scheduling from a finish date. If you
schedule from a fixed finish date, Project will impose a "As Late As
Possible" constraint on the task. If the task has no predecessors,
it will be scheduled as close to the project end date as possible.
Try changing the schedule to "Schedule from project start" and see
if things are better.

Julie

 

[Michael.Tarnowski]

I think there may be a misunderstanding about what "fixed work" task
types mean. Fixed work really only matters when you have resources
assigned. If the tasks aren't scheduled where you expected I'd
check a couple of things:
Did you manually enter any dates into the Start or Finish fields?

No - I 've read enough in this group that this is a bad habit

Check the indicator column for constraint indicators.

I'm not sure why you are scheduling from a finish date. If you
schedule from a fixed finish date, Project will impose a "As Late As
Possible" constraint on the task.

backward scheduling because we started having a contracted delivery
date - a common situation in planning I guess.

If the task has no predecessors,
it will be scheduled as close to the project end date as possible.
Try changing the schedule to "Schedule from project start" and see
if things are better.

Actually I changing the planning direction showed now effect in
changing start/end dates.

-------------------------------
Cheers Michael

Julie,
thanks, for replying. Please find my answers in your post.
Michael

 

[JulieS]

Hi Michael,

My comments are inline.

No - I 've read enough in this group that this is a bad habit


backward scheduling because we started having a contracted
delivery
date - a common situation in planning I guess.

True, having a contracted delivery date is very common, but the
problem with scheduling from a finish date is that everything is
pushed to the finish date. In your last post, you also note setting
MFO constraints. Certainly setting constraints will disturb the
schedule. As I noted, set the start date of the project and based
upon your estimates for tasks, durations, etc. Project will
calculate the end date. If the end date is not going to work with
the contract, then you need to figure out how to excellerate the
schedule.

Actually I changing the planning direction showed now effect in
changing start/end dates.

Set the constraints to ASAP and see if the tasks move. You may wish
to add the Constraint Type field to the table to get a quick method
of checking and
changing constraints.

 

[Michael.Tarnowski]

Hi Michael,







True, having a contracted delivery date is very common, but the
problem with scheduling from a finish date is that everything is
pushed to the finish date. In your last post, you also note setting
MFO constraints. Certainly setting constraints will disturb the
schedule. As I noted, set the start date of the project and based
upon your estimates for tasks, durations, etc. Project will
calculate the end date. If the end date is not going to work with
the contract, then you need to figure out how to excellerate the
schedule.




Set the constraints to ASAP and see if the tasks move. You may wish
to add the Constraint Type field to the table to get a quick method
of checking and
changing constraints.

Julie,
I appreciate very much the time you spent with my concerns.
The MFO constraints are only contractually agreed milestones on top of
the task list having predecessors inside the task list to raise a flag
that due to project internal re-scheduling these milestones couldn't
be met any longer.
I inserted as you suggested a constraint type column - no other task
is constrained.
In changing the planning direction all dates keep like static - no
effects.
Michael

 

[JulieS]

Julie,
I appreciate very much the time you spent with my concerns.
The MFO constraints are only contractually agreed milestones on
top of
the task list having predecessors inside the task list to raise a
flag
that due to project internal re-scheduling these milestones
couldn't
be met any longer.
I inserted as you suggested a constraint type column - no other
task
is constrained.
In changing the planning direction all dates keep like static - no
effects.
Michael

But what constraint type are they? ALAP? Change to ASAP and see if
the dates change.
Julie

 

[Michael.Tarnowski]

But what constraint type are they? ALAP? Change to ASAP and see if
the dates change.
Julie

Julie,
all other tasks are ALAP due to backward planning, changing to ASAP
had no significant difference.
That the changes showed no results was caused by the manual
calculation option -- I forgot this setting, shame on me!
Michael

 

[JulieS]

Julie,
all other tasks are ALAP due to backward planning, changing to
ASAP
had no significant difference.
That the changes showed no results was caused by the manual
calculation option -- I forgot this setting, shame on me!
Michael

Great Michael -- I'm glad you worked it out. No good reason in my
mind to set calculation to manual. Leave Project to calculate and
show you the results of your actions.

Julie