Excel worksheets embedded in Word revert to original contents after modification

[Patricio Mason]

I'm a translator. I translate a weekly report in Word format which
contains two embedded Excel worksheets. These worksheets contain both
text and figures. I dutifully translate the text from Spanish into
English. I send the completed job to the client, who on opening the
Word file finds that my translation of the text in the embedded
worksheets has reverted to Spanish.

This only seems to affect the two embedded Excel worksheets. Other
embedded artifacts, including charts done in Microsoft Graph, as well
as the body of the report and standard tables, are unaffected.

This happens consistently, report after report, and has forced me to
resort to sending PDF versions. I exchange such files with clients
regularly and it is the first time I see this kind of behavior.

I'm using Office 2004 for the Mac, the client is using a PC.

Ideas, anyone?

TIA.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

what do you mean by "reverted to Spanish"? The language is tagged as
Spanish and spellchecked as wrong, since it's in English? Or the text
has actually changed?

Also, can you reconcile these two conflicting statements?

This happens consistently, report after report, and has forced me to
resort to sending PDF versions. I exchange such files with clients
regularly and it is the first time I see this kind of behavior.

It's the first time--but you see it repeatedly--so what is the
difference with this situation? Does it always/only happen with this
client? Do you translate other embedded Excel worksheets without the
same issue (being reported to you)?

Daiya

 

[little_creature]

Hello,
I was thinking about what John once said:
http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=d97bc30b73ecaedd

Local: Fri, Jan 26 2007 4:46 am
Subject: Re: Chart data different than displayed Chart

The Chart application in Word 2003 and the chart application in Word 2004
are different.

When you open the chart in Word 2004, it converts everything into Mac
format, including the charts. You then have two versions stored in the
document.

When you edit, you edit the Mac version.

Whereas your client will see PC version.

As Daiya has mentioned please tell us wherther it happens regularly or just
acciently.

 

[Patricio Mason]

what do you mean by "reverted to Spanish"? The language is tagged as
Spanish and spellchecked as wrong, since it's in English? Or the text
has actually changed?

We're dealing with text actually changing, not with spellchecking. The
embedded worksheet contains a list of countries in table format -
Estados Unidos, Japón, Holanda, etc.- which I translate as "United
States, Japan, The Netherlands", etc. When the Word document leaves my
computer, the embedded worksheet correctly displays the English text.
But when the client opens the document, it is back to "Estados Unidos,
Japón, Holanda", etc. -as if no translation had ever taken place.

It's the first time--but you see it repeatedly--so what is the differencewith this situation?

I see it repeatedly with this particular document (it's a weekly
report) and client. Have never seen it before, although I handle
similar documents often.

Does it always/only happen with this client?

Time after time.

Do you translate other embedded Excel worksheets without the same issue (being reported to you)?

Correct.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile

 

[Patricio Mason]

Hello,
I was thinking about what John once said:http://groups.google.com/groups/search?q=d97bc30b73ecaedd [...]

When you open the chart in Word 2004, it converts everything into Mac
format, including the charts. You then have two versions stored in the
document.

When you edit, you edit the Mac version.

Whereas your client will see PC version.

You may be on to something here, although the Chart application is not
involved in this particular case. I wonder if anyone knows whether a
similar issue might be affecting embedded Excel worksheets.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

We're dealing with text actually changing, not with spellchecking. The
embedded worksheet contains a list of countries in table format -
Estados Unidos, Japón, Holanda, etc.- which I translate as "United
States, Japan, The Netherlands", etc. When the Word document leaves my
computer, the embedded worksheet correctly displays the English text.
But when the client opens the document, it is back to "Estados Unidos,
Japón, Holanda", etc. -as if no translation had ever taken place.

Weird.

My guess would be that a link is set up that is updating the text on
opening the file. I'm not very good with embedded Excel worksheets, but
let's say, for instance, that the Excel object was inserted as a link.
When you open it, it does nothing as it can't find the original. When
the client open it, the link tries to update and pulls the original text
again, overriding your translation. This hypothesis depends on the
attachment going back to the same client, or at least a client on the
same server network.

Try hitting Alt-F9 to show fields. In the test where I selected "link
to file" on inserting the Object--Excel worksheet, the field is:

{LINK Excel.Sheet.8} (plus a filepath and various switches)

The not-linked file shows a field of:

{EMBED Excel.Sheet.8}

Can you do the same and see what shows up?

(Does this even need to be an embedded worksheet? If it's just a table,
and the list is always the same, perhaps you can just delete it and
insert an autotext. Or possibly Locking the field might work, if this is
really the cause. Or I manually changed Link to Embed and it *seemed* to
behave even after updating fields, although I did not test to see
whether the embedded sheet would pull changes from the source doc.)

Daiya

 

[Patricio Mason]

{EMBED Excel.Sheet.8}

Can you do the same and see what shows up?

Thanks for your interest. The test shows {EMBED Excel.Sheet.8}. No
links.

(Does this even need to be an embedded worksheet? If it's just a table,
and the list is always the same, perhaps you can just delete it and
insert an autotext.

Since this is a client-produced report, I have no control on what
format they choose to use. In addition, as I mentioned in my first
posting, it is more than a table. As a translator I am concerned only
with the text part, but the table contains both text and figures which
are calculation results. So yes, at least from their point of view (no
sense telling Excel-loving technocrats that Word could do it just as
well) it does need to be a worksheet.

If you're curious, and since these reports are intended for worldwide
circulation, you can see a copy (showing the extraneous Spanish) here
(right hand side, top of page 2):
http://www.cochilco.cl/anm/articlefiles/585-WeeklyReview03-16-07.pdf

This is what happens when I forget to include a PDF version and the
client does it himself. You wouldn't think that conversion to PDF was
somewhat involved, would you?

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile

 

[CyberTaz]

Is the "transfer" of the doc being made by email as an attachment? And are
you opening the *attachment* and editing it? If so, you're saving your
changes into cyberspace, not the file because your editing a file that
exists only in memory.

If that sounds at all familiar try this: Save the attachment to your hard
drive, open, edit & save that copy. Then zip it and email that as an
attachment.
--
HTH |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

what do you mean by "reverted to Spanish"? The language is tagged as
Spanish and spellchecked as wrong, since it's in English? Or the text
has actually changed?

We're dealing with text actually changing, not with spellchecking. The
embedded worksheet contains a list of countries in table format -
Estados Unidos, Japón, Holanda, etc.- which I translate as "United
States, Japan, The Netherlands", etc. When the Word document leaves my
computer, the embedded worksheet correctly displays the English text.
But when the client opens the document, it is back to "Estados Unidos,
Japón, Holanda", etc. -as if no translation had ever taken place.

It's the first time--but you see it repeatedly--so what is the difference
with this situation?

I see it repeatedly with this particular document (it's a weekly
report) and client. Have never seen it before, although I handle
similar documents often.

Does it always/only happen with this client?

Time after time.

Do you translate other embedded Excel worksheets without the same issue
(being reported to you)?

Correct.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile

 

[Patricio Mason]

Is the "transfer" of the doc being made by email as an attachment? And are
you opening the *attachment* and editing it? If so, you're saving your
changes into cyberspace, not the file because your editing a file that
exists only in memory.

Sorry, I don't follow. The document comes as an attachment to email.
When I start work on it, it has by definition been already downloaded
and saved to my hard drive by my email client. Changes obviously exist
only in RAM as long as you don't save, which I do often. When I return
the report, changes -i.e., the fully translated document- are final so
far as the cyberspace is concerned.

If that sounds at all familiar try this:

Not in the least. I don't know what you mean by it.

Save the attachment to your hard drive, open, edit & save that copy.

I can't see how you could open, edit and save a Word file which has
not yet been saved to your hard drive. Do you mean while it's still on
the POP server? You can't do that, either.

Then zip it and email that as an attachment.

Assuming that, for some strange reason, embedded Excel objects -and
nothing but- will get changed in transit, which is something I've
never seen.

Thanks for your interest.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Is the "transfer" of the doc being made by email as an attachment? And are
you opening the *attachment* and editing it? If so, you're saving your
changes into cyberspace, not the file because your editing a file that
exists only in memory.

I'm not sure this is true on the Mac. Entourage saves things to a
special folder in the the MUD folder, and I assume that Mail similarly
does something logical.

Daiya

 

[John McGhie]

Hi Patricio:

My guess is that the original user inserted the Excel sheet as "Linked AND
embedded". On your computer, the original is not available, so yu edit the
embedded version.

When it gets back to the original user's computer, the original Excel file
IS available, and promptly overwrites the translated version when he opens
the file.

You need to highlight the Excel sheet then go to the Edit>Links menu and
BREAK the link to that object.

Hope this helps

--

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer,
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs

+61 4 1209 1410, <mailto:[email protected]> mailto:[email protected]

what do you mean by "reverted to Spanish"? The language is tagged as
Spanish and spellchecked as wrong, since it's in English? Or the text
has actually changed?

We're dealing with text actually changing, not with spellchecking. The
embedded worksheet contains a list of countries in table format -
Estados Unidos, Japón, Holanda, etc.- which I translate as "United
States, Japan, The Netherlands", etc. When the Word document leaves my
computer, the embedded worksheet correctly displays the English text.
But when the client opens the document, it is back to "Estados Unidos,
Japón, Holanda", etc. -as if no translation had ever taken place.

It's the first time--but you see it repeatedly--so what is the difference
with this situation?

I see it repeatedly with this particular document (it's a weekly
report) and client. Have never seen it before, although I handle
similar documents often.

Does it always/only happen with this client?

Time after time.

Do you translate other embedded Excel worksheets without the same issue
(being reported to you)?

Correct.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile

 

[CyberTaz]

Yes Daiya, you're right and Mail does do the same thing. I'm afraid I didn't
clearly make the point. Let me try again...

When you receive the attachment & double-click it a copy is saved (by
default) into the User\Library\Downloads folder in the case of Mail or to
the User\Documents\MUD\Saved Attachments folder in the case of E'rage. Word
opens the doc for editing & when you save the changes those files *are*
updated accordingly.[1]

However, the *attachment*, itself, is *not* updated, so if you simply reply
or forward directly from your email client you're just returning/forwarding
(a copy of) the original (unmodified) attachment to the recipient. In order
for them to get a copy of the _modified_ file you have to attach (a copy of)
the file that's in the folder on your HD - that's the "real" file that
contains the changes.

[1] This may vary depending on email configuration.

Does that make more sense?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Patricio Mason]

My guess is that the original user inserted the Excel sheet as "Linked AND

embedded". On your computer, the original is not available, so yu edit the
embedded version.

When it gets back to the original user's computer, the original Excel file
IS available, and promptly overwrites the translated version when he opens
the file.

You need to highlight the Excel sheet then go to the Edit>Links menu and
BREAK the link to that object.

John,

The Excel worksheet is not linked, as yesterday's reveal codes test
showed. As a matter of fact, if I try your suggestion, the Links menu
is greyed out, showing that there are no links to work on.

I have been aware that this wasn't the case all along. Why? Because
ONLY the text gets overwritten. Not the figures, which change from
week to week and are therefore easy to compare.

I don't want to bother a busy client with details as to when it
exactly happens, but I'm beginning to suspect that the PDF conversion
process may be involved somehow. I wonder if anyone is aware of issues
when printing a Word document to PDF on the PC platform.

Thanks!

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Oh, I see. It's never crossed my mind to email back the same
attachment, but I guess people might be doing that.

Yes Daiya, you're right and Mail does do the same thing. I'm afraid I didn't
clearly make the point. Let me try again...

When you receive the attachment & double-click it a copy is saved (by
default) into the User\Library\Downloads folder in the case of Mail or to
the User\Documents\MUD\Saved Attachments folder in the case of E'rage. Word
opens the doc for editing & when you save the changes those files *are*
updated accordingly.[1]

However, the *attachment*, itself, is *not* updated, so if you simply reply
or forward directly from your email client you're just returning/forwarding
(a copy of) the original (unmodified) attachment to the recipient. In order
for them to get a copy of the _modified_ file you have to attach (a copy of)
the file that's in the folder on your HD - that's the "real" file that
contains the changes.

[1] This may vary depending on email configuration.

Does that make more sense?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

I'm not sure this is true on the Mac. Entourage saves things to a
special folder in the the MUD folder, and I assume that Mail similarly
does something logical.

Daiya

 

[Patricio Mason]

Oh, I see. It's never crossed my mind to email back the same
attachment, but I guess people might be doing that.

:-D

 

[John McGhie [MVP Word, Word Mac]]

Hi Patricio:

There are only THREE things it can be: either the client is mis-handling
tracked changes, or the spreadhseet contains a formula or macro that is
computing the content of some cells, or he has the spreadsheet linked

It may be that the spreadsheet is linked to another spreadsheet: that's
fairly common among people who know Excel well.

Either way, you're either going to have to live with it, or you're going to
have to ask him. We can't see your screen or his from here, and we're not
getting enough detail to be able to help you.

The only difference between PDF on the PC and PDF on the Mac is that if you
use Adobe's PDFMaker.dot application on the PC, it can recognise and convert
Word's links, including its hypertext links (URLs). I guess there is an
outside possibility that the content of some cells in the spreadsheet are
hyperlinks, and that the hyperlinks are being resolved at output time to
their "Display Names" (the text displayed, rather than the linked URL).

Cheers

--

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Patricio Mason]

Hi Patricio:

There are only THREE things it can be: either the client is mis-handling
tracked changes, or the spreadhseet contains a formula or macro that is
computing the content of some cells, or he has the spreadsheet linked

When the weekly file comes to me it gets massaged by a five-macro
collection that does a lot of things, starting with turning track
changes off. So that's not it.

I'm not an Excel or PC user, so there's little I can assume about what
those factors can account for. Guess I'll have to take the time to go
to my client's office downtown and watch the process in person.

Thanks all.

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile

 

[John McGhie [MVP Word, Word Mac]]

Hi Patricio:

When the weekly file comes to me it gets massaged by a five-macro
collection that does a lot of things, starting with turning track
changes off. So that's not it.

Actually, that may well be exactly it I would need to see the code for
those macros to be sure. However, if you simply "Turn Track Changes off"
without Accepting All changes afterwards, this kind of thing is exactly what
you can expect.

Hope that helps

I'm not an Excel or PC user, so there's little I can assume about what
those factors can account for. Guess I'll have to take the time to go
to my client's office downtown and watch the process in person.

I think so. There's no significant difference in Excel and Word between the
PC and the Mac. A few controls are in different places (which irritates the
hell out of us who have to skip from one to the other...) but the
functionality is either exactly the same, or not there at all on the Mac.
Excel and Word on the Mac do not have any functions that work "differently"
to the PC versions. They have some extra functions on the PC: but by
definition you are not using those.

Cheers
--

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]

 

[Patricio Mason]

Actually, that may well be exactly it I would need to see the code for

those macros to be sure.

Here's some sample code from the beginning of the first macro:

ActiveDocument.AcceptAllRevisions

So that's still not it.

However, if you simply "Turn Track Changes off"
without Accepting All changes afterwards, this kind of thing is exactly what
you can expect.

Correct, except I do.

Besides, even if I didn't, that could not explain why only embedded
Excel objects get changed while nothing else does -not several pages
of text, not embedded Chart objects, not tables, nothing. Just the
Excel objects.

The mystery continues.

Thanks!

Patricio Mason
Santiago, Chile