Exchange 2003 communication differences

[Neko-]

Utilizing an Exchange 2003 machine, an Outlook 2007 infrastructure and
one Entourage 2008 system. And suely, the Entourage one is giving us
grief

My question is simple, although the answer is probably going way too
far for most of you people: What are the differences between
communication from Entourage connecting to Exchange, in respects to
Outlook connecting to Exchange, and why are these differences present?
The cause of my concern is this: we are planning on utilizing a 3rd
party product on Exchange (server based, NOT client based!), which
relies highly on two things:

1) Distinctive HTML / RTF / Text posts
2) Reply separators

The 3rd party program, Outlook and Exchange are working beautifully.
So is Entourage... until the two above items come into play.

It seems that the reply separators in Outlook are different from those
in Entourage, and it causes the 3rd party program to completely
misinterpret the submitted e-mails from Entourage.

Also, Entourage seems to download mails, display them as RTF mails
(eventho we KNOW them to be HTML mails), and on replies change them
back to HTML mails again.

In Outlook with Exchange the 3rd party program works great. We've
tested it extensivly, but never stopped to consider Entourage could
cause us issues. By now we worked around the problem, by disabling the
utilization of the program by the Entourage client.

Microsoft already stated that due to there being a server system in
there, I'm going to have to pay to ask them a question. Since the
obvious answer is going to be 'it's by design, and due to OS
constraints it is the way it is', which basically means me paying for
an answer that I can't do anything with, I'm not at all that inclined
to actually start paying for a question on this front. Moreso since I
really doubt it's something I CAN do anything with.

Thanks for any and all replies. They're appreciated!!!!

 

[William Smith [MVP]]

My question is simple, although the answer is probably going way too
far for most of you people: What are the differences between
communication from Entourage connecting to Exchange, in respects to
Outlook connecting to Exchange, and why are these differences present?
The cause of my concern is this: we are planning on utilizing a 3rd
party product on Exchange (server based, NOT client based!), which
relies highly on two things:

1) Distinctive HTML / RTF / Text posts
2) Reply separators

First, you're correct that Entourage and Outlook connect to Exchange
Server in different ways. Outlook uses MAPI and Entourage uses WebDAV.

However, the connection method is not responsible for the differences in
the way Outlook and Entourage compose mail.

The 3rd party program, Outlook and Exchange are working beautifully.
So is Entourage... until the two above items come into play.

It seems that the reply separators in Outlook are different from those
in Entourage, and it causes the 3rd party program to completely
misinterpret the submitted e-mails from Entourage.

Also, Entourage seems to download mails, display them as RTF mails
(eventho we KNOW them to be HTML mails), and on replies change them
back to HTML mails again.

Outlook is one of the few mail applications that allows you to compose
messages in HTML, RTF and Plain text. RTF use to be the default, which
many folks still use to this day, but Microsoft realized RTF can be
problematic to non-Outlook clients and later changed the default to
HTML, however, old mail stores still have RTF as the default.

Entourage composes mail in either HTML (more closely resembling
Outlook's RTF) and Plain text.

I'm not sure what third party application you're using but I suggest
sticking with standards and lowest common denominators.

If you can use Plain text then do so. All mail applications can
understand Plain text and it doesn't include any of the overhead of HTML
markup.

If you need to send pre-formatted text (this can make reading difficult
for some folks with vision disabilities) then do so in HTML. Keep in
mind that Outlook uses Microsoft Word as its HTML composition engine and
that means it's not standard HTML.

Avoid RTF.

Also, keep in mind that you can't always control the format of reply
messages you receive. Just because you send a message in one format that
doesn't stop the sender or his client from changing to his preferred format.

Hope this helps!

--

bill

Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://nine.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/youtalk>
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/meck>

 

[Neko-]

First, you're correct that Entourage and Outlook connect to Exchange
Server in different ways. Outlook uses MAPI and Entourage uses WebDAV.

However, the connection method is not responsible for the differences in
the way Outlook and Entourage compose mail.

Thanks for clearing that up... That atleast issome more insight into
the matter then I've sofar been able to find out.

Outlook is one of the few mail applications that allows you to compose
messages in HTML, RTF and Plain text. RTF use to be the default, which
many folks still use to this day, but Microsoft realized RTF can be
problematic to non-Outlook clients and later changed the default to
HTML, however, old mail stores still have RTF as the default.

Entourage composes mail in either HTML (more closely resembling
Outlook's RTF) and Plain text.

The weird thing I find, is that it appearantly mixes up HTML and RTF,
instead of either sticking to one or the other...

I'm not sure what third party application you're using but I suggest
sticking with standards and lowest common denominators.

http://www.exclaimer.com/ - A pretty standard server-side tool to
utilize disclaimers and signatures. It should be completely client
independant... but Entourage managed to actually find a weak spot in
it.

If you can use Plain text then do so. All mail applications can
understand Plain text and it doesn't include any of the overhead of HTML
markup.

Depending on the recipients configuration and capabilities, the mail
will be shown in either HTML, RTF or Plain Text. It wouldn't really be
a problem if it got send that way either, since Exclaimer doesn't care
what format it is in. Entourage however receives it in one form, and
sends it on in another... and this cause the whole signature to drop
out of whack.

Not to mention the use of the non-Outlook like reply separators, but
this is likely due to WebDAV I suppose...

If you need to send pre-formatted text (this can make reading difficult
for some folks with vision disabilities) then do so in HTML. Keep in
mind that Outlook uses Microsoft Word as its HTML composition engine and
that means it's not standard HTML.

Avoid RTF.

We'll keep that in mind. Also, not planning on utilizing RTF, but
either HTML or Plain Text. But since RTF isa valid mail formatter, it
is something we need to also keep in consideration.

Also, keep in mind that you can't always control the format of reply
messages you receive. Just because you send a message in one format that
doesn't stop the sender or his client from changing to his preferred format.

We did... The disclaimer software keeps this in mind, and provides
various views to be used depending on the capacities of the receivers
e-mail system.

Hope this helps!

It clears some stuff up. That still leaves me wondering why Entourage
would utilize WebDAV when talking to Exchange, when MSMail back in the
days and Outlook/Exchange Client would use MAPI... Is that just
because it's impossible for Microsoft to create a MAPI-version for the
Apple platform?

Thanks for your reply. It's appreciated.

 

[William Smith [MVP]]

It clears some stuff up. That still leaves me wondering why Entourage
would utilize WebDAV when talking to Exchange, when MSMail back in the
days and Outlook/Exchange Client would use MAPI... Is that just
because it's impossible for Microsoft to create a MAPI-version for the
Apple platform?

When Entourage was first considered for Exchange support the developers
decided to use WebDAV instead of MAPI because back in the early part of
this century WebDAV was seen as the future in Exchange connectivity.

However, the Exchange Server team found WebDAV couldn't quite support
everything like MAPI and MAPI was never deprecated.

Both MAPI and WebDAV have been "de-emphasized" in Exchange, which means
they'll both be going away. The replacement is a new protocol called
"Exchange Web Services".

--

bill

Entourage Help Page <http://entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://nine.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/youtalk>
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/meck>