Expand Container Concept

[Gerald]

I get involved with many projects that have various combinations of Word,
Excel, PowerPoint, PDF, Project, Email, simple Notes, Web pages (both active
links and static pictures of pages) and other applications associated with
them. I want to be able to organize them on an easy to navigate, user
friendly manner. Hierarchal Directory type views are nice, so is the Tab
structure in OneNote. Navigation through/across a project is the key, not
navigation through/across file types or application programs.

I want a Project Notebook that contains all the documents associated with
that project. Some documents may be shared between multiple projects and
must be shareable (shareable in the view organization. So A Windows
Explorer approach would not work well.) Whether the actual application can
handle sharing or not would be a function of the actual application ---- not
the container app.

I would not be overly impressed with an application that provideds the Word
Processing, spread sheet, web browsing... functionality. What ever it does,
it wouldn't do it as well as Word, or brand X or what ever I like best. It
certainly would not include some really hot functionality just released by
FooBarSoft that I need in my Business. Any one company trying to implement
these solutions would be on a dead end road --- What is needed is a product
design as a container that would allow the user to organize their documents
(one might say file types or application programs --- that is just so 20th
century
thinking) as they see fit. OneNote does that do a degree ---- only the
number of documents is severely limited: most documents are just pictures of
a document --- not the real live document.

My initial expectations would not be all that high --- an end application
that was not built with consideration to being used in a container might not
work perfectly in that environment. If the container concept caught on and
became accepted, that would 'force' software vendors to be come 'container
aware'. Obviously, if MS was the container vendor, and they espoused
openness (with a little more openness to MS products???), then over a fairly
short period of time, either most vendors would be 'container aware', or
someone would make middle ware to allow any app to be 'container aware' ----
whatever the hell that means.

So who needs the container app? Wasn't it Steve Balmer's mother who
wondered why any one needed a computer? ... and here we all are. Who needs
a container app ----> everyone ... they just don't know it yet.



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[Ben M. Schorr - MVP]

I want a Project Notebook that contains all the documents associated with
that project. Some documents may be shared between multiple projects and
must be shareable (shareable in the view organization. So A Windows
Explorer approach would not work well.) Whether the actual application
can
handle sharing or not would be a function of the actual application ----
not
the container app.

What about using Windows Explorer and creating shortcuts in the folders of
other projects that need to share the same files?

Or...this might be a good application for Sharepoint; which is really
designed for document management.

My initial expectations would not be all that high --- an end application
that was not built with consideration to being used in a container might
not
work perfectly in that environment. If the container concept caught on
and
became accepted, that would 'force' software vendors to be come
'container
aware'. Obviously, if MS was the container vendor, and they espoused
openness (with a little more openness to MS products???), then over a
fairly
short period of time, either most vendors would be 'container aware', or
someone would make middle ware to allow any app to be 'container aware'

I wonder if the old Microsoft Binder would be able to do something more
like what you're looking for. I'm not sure it's still available unless
you install an older version of MSOffice though.

--
-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, MVP-OneNote/Outlook
Operations Coordinator
Stockholm/KSG - Honolulu
Microsoft OneNote FAQ:
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/schorr/computers/onenotefaq.htm

 

[Diane Poremsky [MVP]]

I wonder if the old Microsoft Binder would be able to do something more

like what you're looking for. I'm not sure it's still available unless
you install an older version of MSOffice though.

It sure sounds like binder should do it... the reason binder was removed
from Office was because very few people used it.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)



Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/

 

[Gerald]

I missed Binder when it was here.

Until the past few years I thought of the world (computers) as files,
directories and applications (30 years of computing can put ones mind into a
rut) Since I have retired for the development business, I now find that I use
the computer strictly as a tool to manage information related to hobbies,
interests and a few small sideline businesses. I now tend to look at
projects as collections of information ---- not files and applications. I
want a “container†app that allows me to do that. OneNote does that nicely
with simple notes and static views of other sources. Step in the right
direction --- not far enough. Binder may have been it --- don’t know ---
never used it --- still in the file and application mindset back then. The
fact that no one used it then doesn't mean that it is lacks great potential
today. It may have been a poor implementation -- only integrating a few MS
apps rather that totally open architecture to allow anyone's apps to be
incorporated. Or it may have been before its time.

Maybe I need to dust off my compiler reference manual and get a prototype up
to explain my vision a little more clearly.

I wonder if the old Microsoft Binder would be able to do something more
like what you're looking for. I'm not sure it's still available unless
you install an older version of MSOffice though.

It sure sounds like binder should do it... the reason binder was removed
from Office was because very few people used it.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)



Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/

 

[Preston B]

I am a community college instructor who used Binder quite frequently. I was
able have each evening's lecture lesson plan, supporting PowerPoint
presentation, quiz, handout material and other documents all in one
container. It was great!

Binder was a little quirky, but it did work and I was surprised (and a
little unhappy) that it was not part of Office 2003. Forunately, I was able
to un-bind each of thirty binders using the utility!

I certainly aggre with gerald that a "container" approach to document
handling is needed. Also, while SharePoint is great for interprise-wide
sharing, it is not very useful for a single user who simply wants a
container for related douments.

One-Note is a step in the right direction, and it very useful for me. Keep
up the good work on One-Note! I am sure it will continue to evolve.
--
Preston
Columbia, CA USA

I missed Binder when it was here.

Until the past few years I thought of the world (computers) as files,
directories and applications (30 years of computing can put ones mind into a
rut) Since I have retired for the development business, I now find that I use
the computer strictly as a tool to manage information related to hobbies,
interests and a few small sideline businesses. I now tend to look at
projects as collections of information ---- not files and applications. I
want a “container†app that allows me to do that. OneNote does that nicely
with simple notes and static views of other sources. Step in the right
direction --- not far enough. Binder may have been it --- don’t know ---
never used it --- still in the file and application mindset back then. The
fact that no one used it then doesn't mean that it is lacks great potential
today. It may have been a poor implementation -- only integrating a few MS
apps rather that totally open architecture to allow anyone's apps to be
incorporated. Or it may have been before its time.

Maybe I need to dust off my compiler reference manual and get a prototype up
to explain my vision a little more clearly.

I wonder if the old Microsoft Binder would be able to do something more
like what you're looking for. I'm not sure it's still available unless
you install an older version of MSOffice though.

It sure sounds like binder should do it... the reason binder was removed
from Office was because very few people used it.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)



Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/

 

[Ben M. Schorr - MVP]

I am a community college instructor who used Binder quite frequently. I
was
able have each evening's lecture lesson plan, supporting PowerPoint
presentation, quiz, handout material and other documents all in one
container. It was great!

Binder was a little quirky, but it did work and I was surprised (and a
little unhappy) that it was not part of Office 2003. Forunately, I was
able
to un-bind each of thirty binders using the utility!

I certainly aggre with gerald that a "container" approach to document
handling is needed. Also, while SharePoint is great for interprise-wide
sharing, it is not very useful for a single user who simply wants a
container for related douments.

Well, perhaps the Binder tool needs to be revived (and improved) for the
next version of Office. Chris can correct me if I'm wrong but I really
don't think that OneNote is intended to be a replacement for Binder.


--
-Ben-
Ben M. Schorr, MVP-OneNote/Outlook
Operations Coordinator
Stockholm/KSG - Honolulu
Microsoft OneNote FAQ:
http://home.hawaii.rr.com/schorr/computers/onenotefaq.htm

 

[alainr]

I am also really looking forward to this functionality in the next version of
OneNote (or hopefully the next patch). I find that the inability to
incorporate live objects in OneNote is one of its greatest limitations right
now. Dead information is just that, dead information.

Files and folders and applications were nice in the beginning. But what is
important nowadays are objects assembled and ordered in their proper context.
These objects should be editable in place, be linkable, and should be able
to be moved from location to location without losing parts or at least remain
coherent.

OneNote seems to be a promising platform for this. I hope it will continue
to evolve in the right direction. Or else, it will just be a tool to shape a
heap of dead information into another heap of dead information.

 

[ArchiPaul]

I've never tried "One Note" and will certainly give it a try. Meanwhile,
having lived in the "world-view" you describe and begrudgingly adopted its
mindset, I've developed a workaround for myself using shortcuts.
Like you, I have many interests that involve different types of information.
I have a desktop folder called "Projects". In it are shortcuts to other
folders I create for each Project. Within those folders are shortcuts to the
"documents" themselves. If the Project is a complicated one, it can have
sub- and sub-sub-folders. This allows the "documents" to reside in a
conventional folder\sub-folder\file structure, but lets me access them (via
shortcuts) from my "Project" folders. The same ("live") document may be
accessed from several different "Projects".
I'm gradually discovering that this approach actually allows my conventional
folder\subfolder\file structure to be less nested than in the past, but old
habits are hard to break...

I missed Binder when it was here.

Until the past few years I thought of the world (computers) as files,
directories and applications (30 years of computing can put ones mind into a
rut) Since I have retired for the development business, I now find that I use
the computer strictly as a tool to manage information related to hobbies,
interests and a few small sideline businesses. I now tend to look at
projects as collections of information ---- not files and applications. I
want a “container†app that allows me to do that. OneNote does that nicely
with simple notes and static views of other sources. Step in the right
direction --- not far enough. Binder may have been it --- don’t know ---
never used it --- still in the file and application mindset back then. The
fact that no one used it then doesn't mean that it is lacks great potential
today. It may have been a poor implementation -- only integrating a few MS
apps rather that totally open architecture to allow anyone's apps to be
incorporated. Or it may have been before its time.

Maybe I need to dust off my compiler reference manual and get a prototype up
to explain my vision a little more clearly.

I wonder if the old Microsoft Binder would be able to do something more
like what you're looking for. I'm not sure it's still available unless
you install an older version of MSOffice though.

It sure sounds like binder should do it... the reason binder was removed
from Office was because very few people used it.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)



Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/

 

[srd]

I have a desktop folder called "Projects". ... This allows the
"documents" to reside in a
conventional folder\sub-folder\file structure, but lets me access them
(via shortcuts) from my "Project" folders. The same ("live") document
may be
accessed from several different "Projects".

OneNote is built on a traditional hierarchy. A program with features along
the lines of your suggestions would have two properties: 1) allowing items
to belong in multiple disjoint folders. (The notetaking program Ultra
Recall is centered on this approach, as well as having numerous other
refinements to the traditional tree notetaker/organizer application; 2)
setting up a structure of virtual folders that cross-classify what's in
the Windows folders. (As with the first, various programs offer this
capability, but the program that has centered on it and refined it to the
nth degree, while leaving other parts of the program quite primitive, is
Zoot! Very different in approach from OneNote, but arguably the main
competitor of OneNote, when it come to power and elegance.

Stephen R. Diamond