Extended MAPI support - non-Outlook e-mail clients

T

Trumpet, Inc.

We've noticed that if we have an e-mail application other than Outlook
selected, the Send E-mail buttons in OneNote are removed from the user
interface. We are using an e-mail client that is fully Extended MAPI
compliant, but OneNote refuses to work with it (I actually renamed our mail
client to be 'Microsoft Outlook' in the registry, and then OneNote worked
perfectly).

Does anyone have any ideas on why OneNote checks the exact name of the mail
client, and only sends email attachments if the user is using Outlook?

Thanks!

- Kevin
Attach Plus
www.attachplus.com
 
D

Diane Poremsky [MVP]

it's only supposed to work with outlook 2003...

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)



Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/

Vote for your favorite Outlook and Exchange utilities in the
Slipstick Ratings Raffle at http://www.slipstick.com/contest/
 
T

Trumpet, Inc.

Does anyone have a good reason why? If another mail app is 100% compatible,
why would they artificially restrict the system?

I guess we'll just tell our users that they can't use the e-mail interface
in OneNote, but I wish I had a better reason to give...

Thanks!

- Kevin


Diane Poremsky said:
it's only supposed to work with outlook 2003...

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)



Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/

Vote for your favorite Outlook and Exchange utilities in the
Slipstick Ratings Raffle at http://www.slipstick.com/contest/

Trumpet said:
We've noticed that if we have an e-mail application other than Outlook
selected, the Send E-mail buttons in OneNote are removed from the user
interface. We are using an e-mail client that is fully Extended MAPI
compliant, but OneNote refuses to work with it (I actually renamed our
mail
client to be 'Microsoft Outlook' in the registry, and then OneNote worked
perfectly).

Does anyone have any ideas on why OneNote checks the exact name of the
mail
client, and only sends email attachments if the user is using Outlook?

Thanks!

- Kevin
Attach Plus
www.attachplus.com
 
G

Grant Robertson

"Trumpet said:
We've noticed that if we have an e-mail application other than Outlook
selected, the Send E-mail buttons in OneNote are removed from the user
interface. We are using an e-mail client that is fully Extended MAPI
compliant, but OneNote refuses to work with it (I actually renamed our mail
client to be 'Microsoft Outlook' in the registry, and then OneNote worked
perfectly).

Does anyone have any ideas on why OneNote checks the exact name of the mail
client, and only sends email attachments if the user is using Outlook?

Well, it couldn't be that Microsoft is artificially trying to limit the
functionality of a competing product. Because we all know that Microsoft
doesn't do that any more. ;-p
 
D

Diane Poremsky [MVP]

probably support reasons "but it [fill the blank] when I use it with
[program]". Tricking it in to using any other program is unsupported - but
if you can trick it and are willing to support any problem the users of your
client run into, go for it.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)



Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/

Vote for your favorite Outlook and Exchange utilities in the
Slipstick Ratings Raffle at http://www.slipstick.com/contest/

Trumpet said:
Does anyone have a good reason why? If another mail app is 100%
compatible,
why would they artificially restrict the system?

I guess we'll just tell our users that they can't use the e-mail interface
in OneNote, but I wish I had a better reason to give...

Thanks!

- Kevin


Diane Poremsky said:
it's only supposed to work with outlook 2003...

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)



Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/

Vote for your favorite Outlook and Exchange utilities in the
Slipstick Ratings Raffle at http://www.slipstick.com/contest/

Trumpet said:
We've noticed that if we have an e-mail application other than Outlook
selected, the Send E-mail buttons in OneNote are removed from the user
interface. We are using an e-mail client that is fully Extended MAPI
compliant, but OneNote refuses to work with it (I actually renamed our
mail
client to be 'Microsoft Outlook' in the registry, and then OneNote worked
perfectly).

Does anyone have any ideas on why OneNote checks the exact name of the
mail
client, and only sends email attachments if the user is using Outlook?

Thanks!

- Kevin
Attach Plus
www.attachplus.com
 
T

Trumpet, Inc.

I doubt this is for support reasons - if it were, they'd have the same
restriction in Word, Excel, Powerpoint, etc..., etc... All those apps work
just fine with the MAPI interface, and OneNote is using the exact same MAPI
calls.

Anyway, I have no interest in actually tricking OneNote into doing something
it ought to do anyway - fiddling with the mail app names in the registry was
just to test to see if there was actually a reason for the restriction.

I think our solution is going to be to tell people they just can't email
from OneNote.

Oh well - so much for standard APIs...

- K

Diane Poremsky said:
probably support reasons "but it [fill the blank] when I use it with
[program]". Tricking it in to using any other program is unsupported - but
if you can trick it and are willing to support any problem the users of your
client run into, go for it.

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)



Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/

Vote for your favorite Outlook and Exchange utilities in the
Slipstick Ratings Raffle at http://www.slipstick.com/contest/

Trumpet said:
Does anyone have a good reason why? If another mail app is 100%
compatible,
why would they artificially restrict the system?

I guess we'll just tell our users that they can't use the e-mail interface
in OneNote, but I wish I had a better reason to give...

Thanks!

- Kevin


Diane Poremsky said:
it's only supposed to work with outlook 2003...

--
Diane Poremsky [MVP - Outlook]
Author, Teach Yourself Outlook 2003 in 24 Hours
Coauthor, OneNote 2003 for Windows (Visual QuickStart Guide)
Author, Google and Other Search Engines (Visual QuickStart Guide)



Join OneNote Tips mailing list: http://www.onenote-tips.net/

Vote for your favorite Outlook and Exchange utilities in the
Slipstick Ratings Raffle at http://www.slipstick.com/contest/

"Trumpet, Inc." <x> wrote in message
We've noticed that if we have an e-mail application other than Outlook
selected, the Send E-mail buttons in OneNote are removed from the user
interface. We are using an e-mail client that is fully Extended MAPI
compliant, but OneNote refuses to work with it (I actually renamed our
mail
client to be 'Microsoft Outlook' in the registry, and then OneNote worked
perfectly).

Does anyone have any ideas on why OneNote checks the exact name of the
mail
client, and only sends email attachments if the user is using Outlook?

Thanks!

- Kevin
Attach Plus
www.attachplus.com
 
T

Trumpet, Inc.

Now that is extremely sarcastic :) - In some cases, I might agree with
you - but I actually suspect that this is more a newbie programmer that made
a decision without an understanding of the impact it would have on other,
fully MAPI compliant, e-mail apps.

I'm sure that if I could find said programmer, they would agree that the
restriction should be removed. Now finding the right person - well, that
would probably be a full time job, and the missing functionality just isn't
important enough to us to pursue it beyond what I've done here...

- K
 
C

Chris_Pratley \(MS\)

No, as usual, Grant is right - it's an evil plot on our part.

hrmph.

The reason is that (just like Word), we only host the email envelope from
Outlook (the thing that pops down when you press the email button) that
matches the same version as us (2003), for stability and quality reasons. Of
course, everything is just software so with enough time and effort and
money, any code could be written and tested and verified and so on, but we
were only able to verify that OLK2003 works for sure. We debated leaving
certain integration with e.g. older versions of Outlook enabled in case
things happened to work, but where we were concerned there might be
stability issues we disabled it. Believe it or not, we do this sort of thing
to try to avoid problems for customers, not because it is an evil plot.

As for other MAPI-enabled clients, I am am not sure how that is working for
you. Do you have Outlook installed as well? (to get the envelope code). If
not, I am not sure how you are able to address the mail? If yes, then sure,
since you have the required Outlook envelope code, if you make your other
app masquerade as Outlook, then you can get around our attempt to protect
you from potential untested harm and probably send some mail. But we can't
say for sure there won't be other problems.

We used to enable for example different versions of Word to work with
Outlook (Word95, 97), but we found too many subtle problems crept up in the
differences between the implementations of the interfaces and the old apps
had already shipped and so could not be modified, so we decided to stay away
from that for quality reasons.

In a future release we may be able to make other MAPI clients work, but for
now copy/paste to your other mail client works pretty well.

Chris Pratley (MS)
OneNote team
 
G

Grant Robertson

"Chris_Pratley \(MS said:
Believe it or not, we do this sort of thing
to try to avoid problems for customers, not because it is an evil plot.

Then perhaps it is just a subtle difference in your mind set that even
you don't notice. Other vendors know they can't get away with just
ensuring compatibility with only the latest version of their OWN
products. So they pick a standard or two and try to make sure their
software meets the standards. Then they say that their software will work
with any other software that meets the standard so the customer has a
choice. Not everyone is entirely successful, of course, but they do seem
to try. Especially, e-gads, the open-source and shareware developers.
They know that their software will live or die based solely on it's own
merits rather than marketing muscle or customer lock-in. Those programs
that play the best with others rise to the top and those that don't get
fixed or die lingering deaths.

Microsoft, on the other hand, seems to go with the notion that everyone
either has or should have the latest version of EVERY other Microsoft
product installed on either the desktop or an attached server. (I know
you have the friend that worked really hard to ensure compatibility with
Windows 95. But even with all his hard work I didn't expect all the old
Win 3.11 stuff to work with it. I considered Win 95 to be a NEW
standard.) Anyway, I am talking about all the standards that have been
developed since then. Things like MAPI, TAPI, HTML, XML, SOAP, etc.
Microsoft always embraces and EXTENDS. The problem seems to be that they
never extend in the same direction twice. So, to get your programs to
work together you actually have to go to more work than you would have
had you stuck to the standard. If you competed on how well you could do
WITHIN the standard and how well you played with others rather than
creating lock-in at every turn (whether inadvertently or intentional) I
think you would have a much better product and far fewer legal battles.


Now, personally, I just think it is an evil plot and you are merely an
unwitting coconspirator. But I put forth these theories just to give you
the benefit of the doubt. ;^)

...the old apps had already shipped and so could not be modified...

It's done all the time. It's called a patch. Granted, patches can only
change so much and a patch of this nature should only be used by people
who need this feature but it is doable.


Really, all of your explanations are making it sound as if the real
problem isn't an evil plot but a conspiracy of errors and the mind set
that it's an all Microsoft all the time world. The first can't be fixed
retroactively but it can be fixed for the future if Microsoft can just
get over the mind set problem. Rather than trying to crush open source,
you should just beat them at their own game.
 
C

Chris_Pratley \(MS\)

Grant, to have OneNote work with another email program, select all the
content and paste it into the other program's mail note. That's hardly
"incompatible". There's no need to blow this out of proportion.

We went the extra bit to integrate the built-in "envelope" toolbar that
Outlook offers. Note that this toolbar is an Office thing, not a MAPI thing.

Issuing a "patch" is not as trivial a task as you seem to think. Sorry,
issuing a patch is easy - making sure it doesn't break anything else is hard
(including install correctly, not break or prevent other patches, etc). In
the end there are only so many hours in a day. And frankly, it is not the
case that every app author makes their tools work with every other app. They
make things work (i.e. test) for the scenarios they consider valuable and a
worthwhile return on investment.

Chris Pratley (MS)
OneNote team
 
T

Trumpet, Inc.

Chris-

Thank you very much for the information - it definitely helps us to
understand why the decision was made. Personally, I would have prefered to
have seen SMAPI support be the way to add e-mail integration to OneNote. If
you used SMAPI then you would pretty much be guaranteed to not have
compatability issues (I get a real kick out of knowing that you run into
interface compatability issues with MS products just like we do!), etc...

The reality of it, is that if this is too much of an issue for our users, we
could always just provide a OneNote add-in (I haven't tried this, but I'm
assuming there is a plugin extension point for OneNote) that emulates the
SMAPI interface.


That said, I would think a much better way of determining whether those
buttons get disabled would be to check for envelope registry keys for the
current mail app - another email client provider could very well provide an
enevelope interface, and it really isn't "playing nicely with others" to
prevent OneNote from working with those mail clients that are willing to
take the additional step to make it compliant at that level with MS's
standards...

Just a suggestion - there are more than one way to skin this cat - but
disabling the feature based on just the mail client name is an awkward
hack... Much better to check the version on the DLL you are actually going
to be using... or have a function exposed in the Envelope COM interface that
returns compatability level information.

Anyway - no big deal!

PS - our mail client is actually a very thing wrapper around Outlook, so,
yes, we are using Outlook's envelope dll's.

- Kevin
 

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