Folders Disappear in Saved Searches

[Jerry_Plotnick]

Version: 2008
Operating System: Mac OS X 10.5 (Leopard)
Processor: Intel
Email Client: Exchange

The folders specify in a Saved Search frequently disappear. The folder name gets replaced by "None." This problem makes my saved searches almost useless, since they must constantly be replaced manually. Is there any way to avoid losing folders in saved searches? Or is the problem with the software. I see no reason why the information must disappear as it does.

 

[Diane Ross]

The folders specify in a Saved Search frequently disappear. The folder name
gets replaced by "None." This problem makes my saved searches almost useless,
since they must constantly be replaced manually. Is there any way to avoid
losing folders in saved searches? Or is the problem with the software. I see
no reason why the information must disappear as it does.

I think I understand your problem. Just to be clear. You have selected
Folder A, but after it's saved, it shows Folder B.

Normally only a rebuild changes a folder destination. Are all the Saved
Searches for mail on your Exchange account? I've never seen a report like
you are describing so it must be something in YOUR setup. Could be
corruption, but since this hasn't been reported before it's probably low on
the list.

Since it is an Exchange account, create a new Identity in Entourage. Enter
your Exchange account and let Entourage sync back up. Does the problem go
away?

Optimize Entourage to better work with Exchange

<http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/2008/03/optimize_entourage_to_better_work_wi
th_exchange.html>

<http://tinyurl.com/56ea7k>

--
Diane Ross, Microsoft Mac MVP
Entourage Help Page <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://tinyurl.com/bzcrjy> <-- Entourage mailing list
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/entouragehelp>

 

[JJP]

Sorry, I may not have been very clear. If I specify Folder A in a save search as a criterion (e.g., "Folder IS NOT Sent Messages"), then I frequently discover not long after that the folder I specify ("Sent Messages" in this example) has been changed to NONE. So Folder A isn't replaced by some other folder, namely Folder B. It disappears from the criterion altogether. In other words, saved searches remain at best partially saved.

I will email you some screen captures to illustrate.

The problem occurs for Exchange or for Imap folders.

I have recently started using Entourage after being put on an Exchange server at work. This problem started occurring virtually right away, and it happened on both my iMac at home and a Macbook I use at work. So in effect I have reproduced the problem in two different settings.

 

[Diane Ross]

Sorry, I may not have been very clear. If I specify Folder A in a save search
as a criterion (e.g., "Folder IS NOT Sent Messages"), then I frequently
discover not long after that the folder I specify ("Sent Messages" in this
example) has been changed to NONE. So Folder A isn't replaced by some other
folder, namely Folder B. It disappears from the criterion altogether. In other
words, saved searches remain at best partially saved.

I just created a test search to see if I can duplicate on my IMAP account.

I will email you some screen captures to illustrate.

Please do so I can replicate the search exactly on my computer.

Send me an email:

<http://www.entourage.mvps.org/support_options/email.html>

--
Diane Ross, Microsoft Mac MVP
Entourage Help Page <http://www.entourage.mvps.org/>
Entourage Help Blog <http://blog.entourage.mvps.org/>
YouTalk <http://tinyurl.com/bzcrjy> <-- Entourage mailing list
Twitter: follow <http://twitter.com/entouragehelp>

 

[JJP]

Thanks. Please see the before and after images at the following pages:

<http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/1917/beforeq.png>

<http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1595/after.png>

 

[Diane Ross]

<http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/1595/after.png>

You have two identical actions in this search.

Is there a reason you have excluded folders? I find that Spotlight search is
quick enough I don't need to exclude.

I'm testing now to see if the exceptions stick.

 

[JJP]

I'm not sure what you mean by two identical actions. Note that "Deleted Messages" and "Deleted Items" are distinct folders.

I exclude folders because I don't want deleted folders and junk mail to be included in the results of the search. It's not a question of speed.

Thanks for pursuing this.

 

[Diane Ross]

I'm not sure what you mean by two identical actions. Note that "Deleted
Messages" and "Deleted Items" are distinct folders.

You have two "Folder is not None".

I exclude folders because I don't want deleted folders and junk mail to be
included in the results of the search. It's not a question of speed.

I see. Wouldn't it be nice to exclude certain folders from search like Time
Machine and Spotlight exclusions?

 

[JJP]

You have two "Folder is not None".

That's true, but those two criteria corresponded to two distinct ones before the original file name was stripped.

I see. Wouldn't it be nice to exclude certain folders from search like Time
Machine and Spotlight exclusions?

Yes, I put in a request to the Feedback page that both Preferences and individual Saved Searches include an exclusion checklist, similar to what one gets in Apple Mail.

 

[Diane Ross]

That's true, but those two criteria corresponded to two distinct ones before
the original file name was stripped.

Now that makes sense.

So far my search is not altered. I'll keep checking.

Since this is for IMAP and Exchange, have you considered setting up a new
Identity to see if a new Identity will clear the problem?

BTW, how big is your database?

Just thinking out loud here, I'm wondering if there is something in your
setup that causes Entourage to loose the ID to the folders. I don't use
Exchange or Entourage in multiple locations so one of the Exchange experts
might know some questions to ask about how you are connecting that would
cause something like this.

However, from reading user messages, I don't remember this coming up in
regards to location and Exchange accounts so I'm leaning on it being an
Entourage problem. Since it's not a known problem, it has to be something in
your Identity, or your User's folder. Hardware issues don't seem to apply
here.

 

[JJP]

So far my search is not altered. I'll keep checking.

Thanks.

Since this is for IMAP and Exchange, have you considered setting up a new
Identity to see if a new Identity will clear the problem?

Well, I did find the problem happening on two separate computers in separate locations. Isn't that the equivalent to testing on a separate identity?

BTW, how big is your database?

1.26 GB, I believe.

Just thinking out loud here, I'm wondering if there is something in your
setup that causes Entourage to loose the ID to the folders. I don't use
Exchange or Entourage in multiple locations so one of the Exchange experts
might know some questions to ask about how you are connecting that would
cause something like this.

Well, I do use three different mail programs and three different computers, and I have three mail accounts, which yields 27 permutations. Feel free to pass on any questions to me.

However, from reading user messages, I don't remember this coming up in
regards to location and Exchange accounts so I'm leaning on it being an
Entourage problem. Since it's not a known problem, it has to be something in
your Identity, or your User's folder. Hardware issues don't seem to apply
here.

Yes, it does seem to a somewhat naive user like me that this is a problem with Entourage. I don't see any reason for saved searches to lose elements of a criterion other than some sort of software glitch. I did wonder whether the types of folders that are disappearing from criteria may get emptied and recreated on servers by the email programs that rely on them. Perhaps when Entourage checks a folder that temporarily doesn't exist (e.g. a Deleted Items folder), it decides that the folder name is no longer valid and deletes the folder. But I have never actually seen any of the folders in question (various junk and deleted items folders) disappear from the list of folders in an iMap or Exchange account. In any case, the Entourage code should be written so that the folder name is stored and reappears in the criterion as soon as it is accessible on the server.

 

[Diane Ross]

Well, I did find the problem happening on two separate computers in separate
locations. Isn't that the equivalent to testing on a separate identity?

Yes. I pinged Bill and hopefully he will be able to offer some suggestions.

1.26 GB, I believe.

That's small so size shouldn't be an issue here.

 

[Diane Ross]

So far my search is not altered. I'll keep checking.

Well, today I verified the problem. Out of 4 actions, 3 were reset to
"none." I'll report this as a bug.

 

[JJP]

Thanks, Diane. It did seem like a bug, so I'm glad to hear the diagnosis, since I take it that means the problem might be resolved in an upcoming update.

 

[Diane Ross]

Thanks, Diane. It did seem like a bug, so I'm glad to hear the diagnosis,
since I take it that means the problem might be resolved in an upcoming
update.

You never know, but the developer is now aware there is a problem. He did
ask....

Just to verify, you didn¹t flush your cache or rebuild your database at any
point did you?

 

[JJP]

Just to verify, you didn�t flush your cache or rebuild your database at any

point did you?

I did flush my cache on my iMac, but only just yesterday, on the advice of a Mac helpline worker, who suggested this action as a way of improving performance. (He insisted that none of my programs would be affected.) Spotlight for Entourage seemed not to work at all immediately after that, so I rebuilt my Spotlight index from my Preferences. That seemed to resolve the issue. But this would have had nothing to do with the problem we have been discussing.

I never rebuilt my database, though I did verify it twice (no problems).

 

[Diane Ross]

Thanks for the feedback. I'll let the developer know.

 

[Diane Ross]

I did flush my cache on my iMac, but only just yesterday, on the advice of a
Mac helpline worker, who suggested this action as a way of improving
performance.

What Mac helpline advised this?

I received this back from the developer:

I¹m troubled at the advise of flushing the cache for performance. The only
reason to flush the cache would be some type of corruption which this might
fix. I don¹t see any reason to expect any performance increase and given the
loss of data (links, category, project, rules and saved search information)
I would never recommend it for performance.

Any saved search that is referencing an Exchange folder is going to break
when/if you flush the Exchange account cache.

Flushing the cache is going to give the Spotlight index generator a lot of
work to do and it might take a while to catch up. That may be all the user
was seeing with the Spotlight problem. Rebuilding only this makes this worse
because now instead of re-indexing just the data refilling the cache, it has
to re-index everything. On the other hand if you have the patience to wait
for it to rebuild, there really isn¹t much downside to rebuilding the index.

Hope this helps!

 

[JJP]

After my experience, I agree with you whole-heartedly. This was the mac helpline that comes via apple care. I asked the helper about five times whether there was any danger to any of my programs in flushing the cache, and he insisted there wasn't. I was to say the least not very happy after I got off the phone to see my searches stop working altogether, and I was at first clueless about how to remedy the problem. That will be the last time I ever flush the cache.