Footnote Help

[jcshirke]

Hi,


I'm having some serious problems with Word putting my footnotes in the
right place. In many cases the footnote does not appear on the same
page as its corresponding superscript number. In other words, if I
have a superscript footnote (#5, for instance) in the main body of my
text, there is a chance that the actual note may not begin on the same
page; it may start on the next page. As just about everyone knows,
that's not acceptable. Notes need to begin on the same page in which
the superscript appears.

I've been trying to correct these problems manually by cutting and
pasting notes into the appropriate pages. However, that's created
another problem. In some cases I have a footnote continuation
separator continuing all the way across a page that doesn't have any
footnotes at all, or I may have the footnote continuation separator on
a page with footnotes, but there's no need for the separator--the
first note on the page is a new note, not a contination of a note from
the previous page.

This is maddening. These problems only popped up because Word didn't
do what it should--put the notes on the pages they should appear on.
This should be an automatic process, no??

If anyone can help me, I would greatly appreciate it. The situation is
critical. I'm in the final stages of formatting my dissertation. If I
can't get this sorted out, I can't graduate.

If you reply to the group, great, but could people also email me
privately: (e-mail address removed)

I'm using Word X with Mac OS 10.4.10.

Jeff

 

[Elliott Roper]

Hi,


I'm having some serious problems with Word putting my footnotes in the
right place. In many cases the footnote does not appear on the same
page as its corresponding superscript number. In other words, if I
have a superscript footnote (#5, for instance) in the main body of my
text, there is a chance that the actual note may not begin on the same
page; it may start on the next page. As just about everyone knows,
that's not acceptable. Notes need to begin on the same page in which
the superscript appears.

Footnotes should *always* appear on the page they were called out from.
About the only way that could have screwed up is that somehow you left
Word with no choice.
Have you always let Word decide the page breaks?
Have you overdone "keep with next" or "keep lines together"?
Have you got empty lines at the end of your footnote text?

I've been trying to correct these problems manually by cutting and
pasting notes into the appropriate pages. However, that's created
another problem. In some cases I have a footnote continuation
separator continuing all the way across a page that doesn't have any
footnotes at all, or I may have the footnote continuation separator on
a page with footnotes, but there's no need for the separator--the
first note on the page is a new note, not a contination of a note from
the previous page.

No No No! You are only compounding the problem. I am amazed it worked
at all.
You have not gone mad with text boxes have you?

This is maddening. These problems only popped up because Word didn't
do what it should--put the notes on the pages they should appear on.
This should be an automatic process, no??

See above.
You are in deep dog doo.
If you have time, spend a day with Clive Huggan's "Bend Word to Your
WIll" before making your dissertation worse.
http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html

You might be facing a major document cleanup.

If anyone can help me, I would greatly appreciate it. The situation is
critical. I'm in the final stages of formatting my dissertation. If I
can't get this sorted out, I can't graduate.

If you reply to the group, great, but could people also email me
privately: (e-mail address removed)

Nope.
If you want paid consulting, or someone to fix your doc up for you for
money *then* you will get a personal reply.

There a couple of people here that are very good with footnotes. Try
cleaning out some of your manual formatting, then ask again with more
specific questions about particular situations e.g. a footnote on a
page that follows a massive footnote from the same page that comes
close to continuing.

Oh, and work on a copy. I'd really hate to see Word claim another
repeat year.

 

[jcshirke]

Footnotes should *always* appear on the page they were called out from.

Indeed. My point exactly.

About the only way that could have screwed up is that somehow you left
Word with no choice.
Have you always let Word decide the page breaks?

Yes. It's all automated.

Have you overdone "keep with next" or "keep lines together"?
Have you got empty lines at the end of your footnote text?

I've never used either of these functions, although I know where they
are in the menus. Neither box is checked.

No No No! You are only compounding the problem. I am amazed it worked
at all.

It has worked, and it's continuing to (mostly) work. I still have one
footnote continuation separator going all the way across the bottom of
one page, however.

You have not gone mad with text boxes have you?

Haven't used a single text box.

If you have time, spend a day with Clive Huggan's "Bend Word to Your
WIll" before making your dissertation worse.http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html

I've seen that link (found it earlier this evening). At the moment,
though, no, I'm afraid I don't have time to do more reading. I need
immediate answers/help.

You might be facing a major document cleanup.

It sure looks that way. But, as I said, if Word worked properly to
begin with, I wouldn't be in this mess.

Nope.
If you want paid consulting, or someone to fix your doc up for you for
money *then* you will get a personal reply.

I don't get it. You could have CC'ed your reply to my email also, no?
How is that any different from posting to the newsgroup? And, yes, I
would pay someone to do this crap for me. I was going to mention it in
my first post. I don't have time to deal with this nightmare.

There a couple of people here that are very good with footnotes. Try
cleaning out some of your manual formatting

Aside from attempting to undo Word's mistakes, I haven't used any
manual formatting. Everything is automatic.

, then ask again with more

specific questions about particular situations e.g. a footnote on a
page that follows a massive footnote from the same page that comes
close to continuing.

See above Re: footnote continuation separator. That's the only problem
I have at the moment. Everything else I've been able to fix. But I
have a long, long way to go.

Thanks.

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

I'm amazed that anything manual appears to be working--print it to PDF
quick, before you change printers and it goes all crazy. Word doesn't
like manual, it's prone to rebel at any given moment.

By the way--you said you had a long way to go with formatting the
dissertation. First of all, thinking about anything related to page
breaks before you are ready to print is a fool's game, page breaks
change *all* the time in Word. Second, describe a little bit more about
what else you need to do, we'll try to offer some tips or possibly
forward your message to consultants who might take on the job.

For this problem--the correct tips for making Word automatically lay out
your notes properly are listed here:
http://word.mvps.org/faqs/formatting/FootnoteOnDiffPage.htm
(hit reload a few times in Safari, or use a different browser)
Not sure what applying them now will do, test it ON A COPY.

Actually, you could try the corrupt document fixes ON A COPY. The doc
isn't corrupt, but forcing Word to rebuild everything might kick it into
noticing that there is no need for a footnote continuation separator.
Might also screw up whatever manual fixes you applied, no idea.
http://word.mvps.org/Mac/DocumentCorruption.html

Actually, on the same rebuild principle, first try deleting the
problematic note and the ones around it, closing the doc, and then
re-inserting them--go into Print Preview and out before you re-insert
them. Again, this has a chance of kicking Word into figuring it out.

Are you seeing the FCS when you Print? in Print Preview? in Page
Layout? Page Layout is a guess-estimate of where page breaks will be,
and only about 98% reliable, at a guess.

Good luck with your dissertation! I compiled this page, by the way, of
links useful when I was writing mine:
http://daiya.mvps.org/bookword.htm

Daiya

PS. I recently told a friend of mine that there was a big market on
university campuses for a service like this.... check flyers around the
U of C for people offering editorial or proofing services, perhaps they
will do the whole sort Word out, build the automatic TOC, etc as well.

 

[CyberTaz]

Hi Daiya -

Can't the sort of problems cited be caused by Track Changes - at least if
there is an ongoing accumulation of revisions?

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac

 

[Daiya Mitchell]

Hi Bob,

I'd expect footnote mis-locations to go away once all the Changes have
been Accepted. For instance, note numbers go wacky while tracking
changes but then usually sort themselves out.

But footnote on the wrong page is a common enough problem that someone
wrote the article, even without reference to Track Changes. The tips in
the article are largely about simplifying or changing the complex
calculations that Word might occasionally get wrong.

HOWEVER, jcshirke, if Track Changes ARE involved, be sure to say so.

(Bob, admittedly, I didn't think of Track Changes partially because I
don't know that dissertations accumulate Track Changes in the way that
corporate reports do, at least in disciplines that use footnotes--plenty
of profs don't use them and I find track changes not really conducive to
guiding academic writing, personally).