format empty table cells

D

dannyd

I would like to format an empty table with a font other than the
defauls.
When I try to format empty table cells the font size is ok but the
font stays with the default.
If there are characters in the cell then the font formats fine.
I tried assigning a style to the empty cells also but no luck.
When I type in an empty cell the font is the default.
Thanks. Danny
 
J

John McGhie [MVP Word, Word Mac]

Hi Danny:

That's a real PITA but it is an unavoidable consequence of the way Word
tables are constructed! I blame WordPerfect for this... :)

Way back before most of us were born, WordPerfect was the dominant
word-processor. It constructed "tables" using paragraphs and tabs and
special ASCII "line" characters such as | to draw the lines. When they
designed Word, they designed it around a similar mechanism to preserve
compatibility. Now we're stuck with a mechanism that is compatible with a
product that virtually no longer exists, in the same way as Excel gets its
dates wrong in a manner exactly compatible with VisiCalc :)

In Microsoft Word, a "Table" is a "Collection" of "Paragraphs". It's a
nested structure, in which the table is a paragraph that contains paragraphs
(which can contain tables which contain paragraphs, and so on down to nine
levels of nesting...)

One of the rules that make a paragraph a paragraph in Word is the fact that
it must have both a paragraph format and a character format. Unless you
change these, they are both set to "Normal" style (which internally is
"Style 0" from which every other style in the document inherits its
properties (unless you change that too)). As you have now discovered, this
results in a very complex structure that is difficult to control.

But not impossible.

An easy way around it is to take advantage of the fact that every table cell
in the document starts out formatted with the Normal style. Set your Normal
style to the Font and Paragraph formats you want for your table cells and
every table cell will have the formatting you want!

That means you need to use a different style for your document text. May I
suggest "Body Text". It is a built-in style that is designed for the
purpose. It starts out by inheriting all of the properties of normal style,
you only need to change the ones you want. If you use Body Text for all of
your text paragraphs, you are then free to assign any properties you like to
Normal style. Just be aware that every style in the document inherits from
Normal style, so you need to break those links before you change Normal
otherwise all of the text in the document changes.

The other alternative, is to select the entire Cell and apply your
formatting. I don't use this technique, because unless you have text in
there it's very hard to see what is what (as you have discovered). However,
in each table cell there is a text paragraph and an end-of-cell delimiter
(which is a special kind of paragraph). They both have formatting. By
selecting within the cell, you cannot select the outer "end of cell
delimiter", so you can't apply formatting to it. But if you select the
whole cell, you can apply formatting to both.

Sorry it's so complex: Blame WordPerfect.

Cheers

--

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
C

Clive Huggan

Hello Danny,

If you frequently need to insert tables, you might find it a good idea to
insert them, pre-formatted, via AutoText. Essentially you create a table the
way you want it and turn it into an AutoCorrect entry. Thereafter, you
simply key in a chosen AutoCorrect term and the complete table appears. I
have many such pre-formatted tables, so I use a combination of letters --
for example, 3ch for a 3-column table with horizontal lines between the
rows. The full sequence, therefore, is to type 3ch followed by
Command-Option-v

The whole procedure, and examples, are on pages 126 and 127 of some notes on
the way I use Word for the Mac, titled "Bend Word to Your Will", which are
available as a free download from the Word MVPs' website
(http://word.mvps.org/Mac/Bend/BendWordToYourWill.html).

[Note: "Bend Word to your will" is designed to be used electronically and
most subjects are self-contained dictionary-style entries. If you decide to
read more widely than the item I've referred to, it's important to read the
front end of the document -- especially pages 3 and 5 -- so you can select
some Word settings that will allow you to use the document effectively.]

The above is consistent with John's advice (not surprisingly, since he has
been the source of a great many of the ideas in "Bend Word to Your Will").

Cheers,

Clive Huggan
Canberra, Australia
(My time zone is 5-11 hours different from North America and Europe, so my
follow-on responses to those regions can be delayed)
============================================================
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re-visiting the newsgroup for several days after the first response comes
in. Sometimes it takes a few responses before the best or complete solution
is provided; sometimes you'll be asked for further information. Good tips
about getting the best out of posting are at
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http://word.mvps.org/FindHelp/Posting.htm (if you use Safari you may see a
blank page and have to hit the circular arrow icon -- "Reload the current
page" -- two or more times).
============================================================
 
P

Phillip Jones

Hmmm! Wonder if WordPerfect Corp,Novel, and Corel could sue MS for
filching such idea from WordPerfect now that you have let the cat out of
the bag. ;-)
Hi Danny:

That's a real PITA but it is an unavoidable consequence of the way Word
tables are constructed! I blame WordPerfect for this... :)

Way back before most of us were born, WordPerfect was the dominant
word-processor. It constructed "tables" using paragraphs and tabs and
special ASCII "line" characters such as | to draw the lines. When they
designed Word, they designed it around a similar mechanism to preserve
compatibility. Now we're stuck with a mechanism that is compatible with a
product that virtually no longer exists, in the same way as Excel gets its
dates wrong in a manner exactly compatible with VisiCalc :)

In Microsoft Word, a "Table" is a "Collection" of "Paragraphs". It's a
nested structure, in which the table is a paragraph that contains paragraphs
(which can contain tables which contain paragraphs, and so on down to nine
levels of nesting...)

One of the rules that make a paragraph a paragraph in Word is the fact that
it must have both a paragraph format and a character format. Unless you
change these, they are both set to "Normal" style (which internally is
"Style 0" from which every other style in the document inherits its
properties (unless you change that too)). As you have now discovered, this
results in a very complex structure that is difficult to control.

But not impossible.

An easy way around it is to take advantage of the fact that every table cell
in the document starts out formatted with the Normal style. Set your Normal
style to the Font and Paragraph formats you want for your table cells and
every table cell will have the formatting you want!

That means you need to use a different style for your document text. May I
suggest "Body Text". It is a built-in style that is designed for the
purpose. It starts out by inheriting all of the properties of normal style,
you only need to change the ones you want. If you use Body Text for all of
your text paragraphs, you are then free to assign any properties you like to
Normal style. Just be aware that every style in the document inherits from
Normal style, so you need to break those links before you change Normal
otherwise all of the text in the document changes.

The other alternative, is to select the entire Cell and apply your
formatting. I don't use this technique, because unless you have text in
there it's very hard to see what is what (as you have discovered). However,
in each table cell there is a text paragraph and an end-of-cell delimiter
(which is a special kind of paragraph). They both have formatting. By
selecting within the cell, you cannot select the outer "end of cell
delimiter", so you can't apply formatting to it. But if you select the
whole cell, you can apply formatting to both.

Sorry it's so complex: Blame WordPerfect.

Cheers

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:p[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>
 
J

John McGhie [MVP Word, Word Mac]

No, Phillip -- you can't sue someone for knocking off an outrageous kludge.
There has to be something "Intellectual" about the Property stolen :)

--

Please reply in the group. Please do NOT email me unless I ask you to.

http://jgmcghie.fastmail.com.au/

John McGhie, Consultant Technical Writer
McGhie Information Engineering Pty Ltd
Sydney, Australia. GMT + 10 Hrs
+61 4 1209 1410, mailto:[email protected]
 
P

Phillip Jones

I like it when people tell the truth . :-D
No, Phillip -- you can't sue someone for knocking off an outrageous kludge.
There has to be something "Intellectual" about the Property stolen :)

--
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Phillip M. Jones, CET |LIFE MEMBER: VPEA ETA-I, NESDA, ISCET, Sterling
616 Liberty Street |Who's Who. PHONE:276-632-5045, FAX:276-632-0868
Martinsville Va 24112 |[email protected], ICQ11269732, AIM pjonescet
------------------------------------------------------------------------

If it's "fixed", don't "break it"!

mailto:p[email protected]

<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/90th_Birthday/index.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Fulcher/default.html>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Harris/default.htm>
<http://www.kimbanet.com/~pjones/Jones/default.htm>

<http://www.vpea.org>
 
C

CyberTaz

.... And [usually] the "something stolen" has to have been copyrighted,
patented, or in some way protected. Otherwise - once it is put out there -
it is essentially "public domain", although there may be a great deal of
variation by jurisdiction.

Regards |:>)
Bob Jones
[MVP] Office:Mac
 

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