Frontpage and ASP.NET

[Terry Michal]

What are the disadvantages of using FrontPage and Visual Studio ASP.NET with
pages written in C#? I like the templates in FrontPage, but am I going to
have an integration problem if I want to then modify the Web site with
Visual Studio 2003, with C#?

I'd rather not have to create the menus and Web navigation from scratch in
Visual Studio.

Thanks in advance.

 

[clintonG]

The main disadvantage is the fact that FrontPage is NOT genuinely integrated
nor does it genuinely interoperate with any release of Visual Studio. The
fact that Visual Studio.NET 2003 has a 'Designer' that mangles and deletes
HTML source does not make for a great experience causing lots of wasted time
and anguish. So using FrontPage 2003 to develop ASP.NET applications remains
a wasteful and costly work in progress. Everything remains a work-around as
there is pithy support for developing ASP.NET when using FrontPage. The
documents at [1],[2] and [3] should be reviewed. More documents from others
reading this topic are welcome.

Developers working for or with Microsoft have stated at recent ASP.NET
events that Visual Studio 2005 will not mangle or delete HTML source. I have
finally gotten Visual Studio 2005 Beta 2 loaded late last night so I have no
clue about the facts yet.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

[1]
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d...a/html/odc_FPUsingASPNETWithFrontPage2003.asp
[2]
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/d...en-us/odc_fp2003_bk/html/odc_fp_c43615101.asp
[3] http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;EN-US;871217

 

[Kevin Spencer]

Hi Terry,

If you are doing ASP.Net, you will not be able to use FrontPage run-time
components to design your pages.

That said, I use FrontPage to design any in-page HTML, and Visual Studio.Net
to do the server-side coding. VS.Net has a terrible HTML designer, but I can
design my HTML in FrontPage, and paste it into my page in VS.Net.

Common elements in an ASP.Net app, such as navigarion elements, "shared
borders" (not FrontPage Shared Borders, but shared components that are
common to all pages), are handled using ASP.Net Controls. You can create
custom User Controls, which are similar in functionality to "included
content" components in FrontPage, or Custom Server Controls (which require
more programming expertise, but are more portable).

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You Seek Is What You Get.

 

[Jim Buyens]

Please consult:

Chapter 43: Using FrontPage 2003 and Visual Studio .NET Together

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/en-us/odc_fp2003_bk/html/odc_fp_C43615101.asp

Jim Buyens
Microsoft MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
|| Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services Inside Out
||---------------------------------------------------
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------

 

[Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)]

What are the disadvantages of using FrontPage and Visual Studio
ASP.NET with pages written in C#? I like the templates in FrontPage,
but am I going to have an integration problem if I want to then
modify the Web site with Visual Studio 2003, with C#?

I'd rather not have to create the menus and Web navigation from
scratch in Visual Studio.

Thanks in advance.

I disagree with Clinton. I use FrontPage and VS.NET together extensively
and do not encounter problems.

I am in the process of creating an add-in that will make working with VS.NET
and FrontPage together much easier.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

New Spawn Version!
Version 1.9.6 adds new features!
Get it today FREE at:
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

 

[Kevin Spencer]

I agree with Jim. I do the same. And Jim, let us know when your add-in is
ready!

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You Seek Is What You Get.

 

[clintonG]

Let's see what is being said here.
What part of my comments are disagreeable? The truthful parts or the factual
parts?

If my comments were not truthful or factual why would an add-in be needed to
make FrontPage work with Visual Studio.NET 2003?
I can't accept any any 'easier' blah blah bullsh!t as a response. State the
reason the add-in is needed.

<%= Clinton Gallagher
METROmilwaukee (sm) "A Regional Information Service"
NET csgallagher AT metromilwaukee.com
URL http://metromilwaukee.com/
URL http://clintongallagher.metromilwaukee.com/

 

[Kevin Spencer]

What part of my comments are disagreeable? The truthful parts or the

factual parts?

I'm afraid you're responding to the wrong fellow. I said nothing about you.
I said something about and to Jim. I was agreeing (not disagreeing) with his
statement "I use FrontPage and VS.NET together extensively
and do not encounter problems." What you say means nothing to me.

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
..Net Developer
What You Seek Is What You Get.

 

[Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)]

Let's see what is being said here.
What part of my comments are disagreeable? The truthful parts or the
factual parts?

If my comments were not truthful or factual why would an add-in be
needed to make FrontPage work with Visual Studio.NET 2003?
I can't accept any any 'easier' blah blah bullsh!t as a response.
State the reason the add-in is needed.

As a quick teaser:

* Suppose you could choose selected file types (i.e. cs, vb, vbproj,
csproj, sln, suo) so that they will NEVER publish when your site is
published? Sure, you can just set publish status on that file type, but
when you add new files, will you always remember? Can you afford to push
your source up to your host?

* Suppose you could ensure that Debug was False in all of your ASP.NET
pages before you deploy? (This is critically important!)

What part of your post do I disagree with? Inline:

[clintonG said]

The main disadvantage is the fact that FrontPage is NOT genuinely
integrated
nor does it genuinely interoperate with any release of Visual Studio. The

How do you define "interoperate"? It is quite easy to open a site in
FrontPage and VS.NET at the same time and edit in each. However, they
really aren't supposed to interoperate. As long as each one of them was
designed to provide UI functionality for ASP.NET, that's all that is
required.

fact that Visual Studio.NET 2003 has a 'Designer' that mangles and deletes
HTML source does not make for a great experience causing lots of wasted
time
and anguish. So using FrontPage 2003 to develop ASP.NET applications
remains
a wasteful and costly work in progress.

I disagree with that simply because that's what I do with my site and I
never have any problems. I've been doing it for over 2 years now.

Does VS.NET 7.x have designer issues? Yes, it does. However, it doesn't
have any issues with the HTML created by FrontPage in my experience. I do
know the issues involving the designer, I know why they happen, and I know
how to effectively work around them should I encounter them. Truth is that
I don't.

Everything remains a work-around as
there is pithy support for developing ASP.NET when using FrontPage. The
documents at [1],[2] and [3] should be reviewed. More documents from
others
reading this topic are welcome.

Are you sure that pithy is the word you wanted here? If it is, then that's
one statement we can agree upon.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

New Spawn Version!
Version 1.9.6 adds new features!
Get it today FREE at:
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

 

[clintonG]

Oh yea --- that add-in will be helpful noting the description of the
functionality just helps establish my point that FrontPage 2003 was released
as lame crippleware with regard to its use with Visual Studio.NET 2003.

Anybody that has questions about the use of FrontPage 2003 with Visual
Studio.NET 2003 and vice versa should do themselves a favor and ask
questions in newsgroups such as
news://microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet and
news://microsoft.public.dotnet.general where they will learn what I stated
to be both factual and truthful without embellishment of any kind.


<%= Clinton Gallagher

Let's see what is being said here.
What part of my comments are disagreeable? The truthful parts or the
factual parts?

If my comments were not truthful or factual why would an add-in be
needed to make FrontPage work with Visual Studio.NET 2003?
I can't accept any any 'easier' blah blah bullsh!t as a response.
State the reason the add-in is needed.

As a quick teaser:

* Suppose you could choose selected file types (i.e. cs, vb, vbproj,
csproj, sln, suo) so that they will NEVER publish when your site is
published? Sure, you can just set publish status on that file type, but
when you add new files, will you always remember? Can you afford to push
your source up to your host?

* Suppose you could ensure that Debug was False in all of your ASP.NET
pages before you deploy? (This is critically important!)

What part of your post do I disagree with? Inline:

[clintonG said]

The main disadvantage is the fact that FrontPage is NOT genuinely
integrated
nor does it genuinely interoperate with any release of Visual Studio. The

How do you define "interoperate"? It is quite easy to open a site in
FrontPage and VS.NET at the same time and edit in each. However, they
really aren't supposed to interoperate. As long as each one of them was
designed to provide UI functionality for ASP.NET, that's all that is
required.

fact that Visual Studio.NET 2003 has a 'Designer' that mangles and
deletes
HTML source does not make for a great experience causing lots of wasted
time
and anguish. So using FrontPage 2003 to develop ASP.NET applications
remains
a wasteful and costly work in progress.

I disagree with that simply because that's what I do with my site and I
never have any problems. I've been doing it for over 2 years now.

Does VS.NET 7.x have designer issues? Yes, it does. However, it doesn't
have any issues with the HTML created by FrontPage in my experience. I do
know the issues involving the designer, I know why they happen, and I know
how to effectively work around them should I encounter them. Truth is
that I don't.

Everything remains a work-around as
there is pithy support for developing ASP.NET when using FrontPage. The
documents at [1],[2] and [3] should be reviewed. More documents from
others
reading this topic are welcome.

Are you sure that pithy is the word you wanted here? If it is, then
that's one statement we can agree upon.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

New Spawn Version!
Version 1.9.6 adds new features!
Get it today FREE at:
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

 

[Jim Cheshire \(JIMCO\)]

Oh yea --- that add-in will be helpful noting the description of the
functionality just helps establish my point that FrontPage 2003 was
released as lame crippleware with regard to its use with Visual
Studio.NET 2003.
Anybody that has questions about the use of FrontPage 2003 with Visual
Studio.NET 2003 and vice versa should do themselves a favor and ask
questions in newsgroups such as
news://microsoft.public.dotnet.framework.aspnet and
news://microsoft.public.dotnet.general where they will learn what I
stated to be both factual and truthful without embellishment of any
kind.

Well, I suppose we can admire your tenacity in sticking to your guns, but to
stick to the analogy, I think you need more target practice.

Anyone with questions about using FrontPage and VS.NET together would be
best off asking those who do it regularly and who understand both quite
well. Kevin would fall neatly into that category as would I.

Personally, I think you're just itching for a fight. In this case, you came
to the fight without any bullets.

--
Jim Cheshire
JIMCO
http://www.jimcoaddins.com

New Spawn Version!
Version 1.9.6 adds new features!
Get it today FREE at:
http://www.jimcoaddins.com